Pursuit of happiness no longer - Page 4

4Vman · 23-02-2010, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

No doubt, but pulling the pin on a model that costs them bugger all makes less sense. Some people will buy them regardless of their performance/looks etc because they want the best ute ford/fpv build at the time. Same theory can be applied for the B series GT sales "success".

This and the F6E are cars in which FPV have spent bugger all on and if there presence is enough to roll over a few more sales then great.

4vman, your right with what has occurs with F v H and their utes; what would make life interesting is what would happen if IRS was an option or standard on XR and FPV models? (personally I believe it should be an option on XR's and standard on FPV's).

The live axel does a great job but honestly it shouldn't be in a FPV car. I know the 'stang lovers want to keep there older setup for racing purposes but we are not like them and they have a million and one options anyway.

The ONLY way a FPV ute would get IRS is if the Ford ute got it first, and by doing so would kill half the appeal of the falcon ute for its intended purpose.. a work horse.
you couldnt offer it as an option because of extreme development costs, it would kill its retail price.... It would be either 1 or the other, not both.

Kamshaaft · 23-02-2010, 03:19 PM

IRS is great, as seen in the AU, but the number isn't really entirely up for live rear axles. The second fastest production car around the Nurburgring (unfortunately this is the only track where these world benchmarks are set, so I can't give you a more accurate composite figure from several dozen tracks) has a live rear axle, albeit a very unique setup. Just thought I'd point it out, though like you guys I believe if they could afford it it would be a great way of starting to differentiate models.

**Polyal** · 23-02-2010, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

The ONLY way a FPV ute would get IRS is if the Ford ute got it first, and by doing so would kill half the appeal of the falcon ute for its intended purpose.. a work horse.
you couldnt offer it as an option because of extreme development costs, it would kill its retail price.... It would be either 1 or the other, not both.

Thats why I didn't say across the range.

Im not privy to the $$$ costs to adapt the current IRS for the ute but how extreme could it really be? Not cheap im sure but its is something that if ford/fpv want to compete in the future that they have to do eventually.

Like I said, its mainly the press that get stuck into Ford for not having IRS in the utes but unfortunately alot of the punters actually listen or look to these people for insight.

Kamshaaft · 23-02-2010, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

The ONLY way a FPV ute would get IRS is if the Ford ute got it first, and by doing so would kill half the appeal of the falcon ute for its intended purpose.. a work horse.
you couldnt offer it as an option because of extreme development costs, it would kill its retail price.... It would be either 1 or the other, not both.

Yep, here's our common sense. If I recall correctly, coil overs all round and large rims are the main reason why the Holden utes can't carry much more than 2 wheelbarrows worth of soil or a motorbike, or half a Saturday night's worth of beer.

flappist · 23-02-2010, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

No doubt, but pulling the pin on a model that costs them bugger all makes less sense. Some people will buy them regardless of their performance/looks etc because they want the best ute ford/fpv build at the time. Same theory can be applied for the B series GT sales "success".

This and the F6E are cars in which FPV have spent bugger all on and if there presence is enough to roll over a few more sales then great.

4vman, your right with what has occurs with F v H and their utes; what would make life interesting is what would happen if IRS was an option or standard on XR and FPV models? (personally I believe it should be an option on XR's and standard on FPV's).

The live axel does a great job but honestly it shouldn't be in a FPV car. I know the 'stang lovers want to keep there older setup for racing purposes but we are not like them and they have a million and one options anyway.

Bruet33 nice ride!

:

To make an IRS ute would cost millions if not tens of millions of dollars.

I met some guys working on the I6 that is in the FG. This was in 2003, 5 YEARS before the model release and they were already at the field testing stage. Half a dozen engineers in the middle of NT in the stinking heat and the day I was talking to them I overheard them talking about the results of using various single and dual radiator fan configurations.

EVERYTHING must be developed and tested. If they get something a silly as a sensor wrong it may cause accidents and/or recalls costing bazillions (just ask toyota)

Road_Warrior · 23-02-2010, 03:39 PM

I would have suggested it would cost in the order of $20 Million to design and engineer an IRS for the ute. All for what? Bragging rights and a few hundred sales a year? That's crazy. You would never recoup that R&D investment based on those numbers.

Ford need to do more work with the Falcon ute to make it - in the consumer's eyes - lineball with the Hilux.

**Giant Cranium** · 23-02-2010, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamshaaft

Yep, here's our common sense. If I recall correctly, coil overs all round and large rims are the main reason why the Holden utes can't carry much more than 2 wheelbarrows worth of soil or a motorbike, or half a Saturday night's worth of beer.

im all for leaf springs because it is easy to add a leaf and get more load.
but in standard form the ss will carry more than my xr8 and the pursuit carrys less.

flappist · 23-02-2010, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by captain awesome

im all for leaf springs because it is easy to add a leaf and get more load.
but in standard form the ss will carry more than my xr8 and the pursuit carrys less.

Well maybe that is because the XR8 is also a "show pony" ute. How much does a standard ute cary?

**Polyal** · 23-02-2010, 03:44 PM

Flappist Im more than aware of costs (and penny pinching) along with development procedures but I think we are looking at this a little short sighted.

Sure in the short term it would cost, but how long is the Ford ute going to be around for? Slightly pessimistic view to look at one year of annual sales (as per Road_Warrior post).

So they either continue as is or they can bite the bullet and do it and amortize the cost over 10 years or more.

Perhaps thats the problem, no long term plans are concrete or even semi safe so why commit the funds to it.

OR................as with the falcon wagon if people want space they get a Territory.

What if they do the same with the ute? If someone wants serious load and towing capability wouldn't you get a Ranger? Given the current model looks like a hat full of a-holes.

So given that example T6 is coming up, R&D done here so its bound to have "falcon" characteristics, perhaps then you could build a case for IRS across the falcon ute range.

But all of this from a practically basis rumour..LOL..no wonder the press can have a field day.

flappist · 23-02-2010, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

Flappist Im more than aware of costs (and penny pinching) along with development procedures but I think we are looking at this a little short sighted.

Sure in the short term it would cost, but how long is the Ford ute going to be around for? Slightly pessimistic view to look at one year of annual sales.

So they either continue as is or they can bite the bullet and do it and amortize the cost over 10 years or more.

Perhaps thats the problem, no long term plans are concrete or even semi safe so why commit the funds to it.

The thing is WE do not look at it at all. THEY look at it and, I suspect, try to choose the best path.

How much money was lost with the F6X?
How much was lost with the entire T Series, Mustangs and Cougar.

I am sure at least one person reckoned they were all a good idea at the time.

Tough times require tough decisions.

You can help though......go out and buy a NEW Super Pursuit, they would welcome the sale.

And remember this whole thing started with a rumour, it may be all total crap or it may not. Only time will tell.

**Giant Cranium** · 23-02-2010, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Well maybe that is because the XR8 is also a "show pony" ute. How much does a standard ute cary?

this thread is about the show pony utes.
but i think standard falcon is 1000kg and commodore is 800kg.
xrs go to about 420 but because it has 'sports' suspension
and the ss is about 470kg

4Vman · 23-02-2010, 04:02 PM

Looking at the bigger picture here id prefer Ford to focus on making the falcon ute the best 1 tonne ute on the market, with that comes the flexibility the removable tub offers for add on tray/"back pack" options and "tool box" combinations.
How Ford/FPV then adapt that into a "show pony" from there is less of a concern...

Road_Warrior · 23-02-2010, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Looking at the bigger picture here id prefer Ford to focus on making the falcon ute the best 1 tonne ute on the market, with that comes the flexibility the removable tub offers for add on tray/"back pack" options and "tool box" combinations.
How Ford/FPV then adapt that into a "show pony" from there is less of a concern...

Exactly.

And bring back the effing RTV ute already.

mcnews · 23-02-2010, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Well maybe that is because the XR8 is also a "show pony" ute. How much does a standard ute cary?

About half a ton. But for some of us that is enough, my BA & BF regularly carried two motorcycles in the back. My BF F6 ute also got firewood from the paddocks. Also towed a caravan across Australia with the tray full of stuff. And did a fair bit of dirt road fanging. It also did a fair few trackdays where it embarrassed nearly everything else. So they can still be quite practical. They are not really for pallets of bricks, but are still useful for a myriad of things I need that a car won't do.

tex · 23-02-2010, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Looking at the bigger picture here id prefer Ford to focus on making the falcon ute the best 1 tonne ute on the market, with that comes the flexibility the removable tub offers for add on tray/"back pack" options and "tool box" combinations.
How Ford/FPV then adapt that into a "show pony" from there is less of a concern...

I read this thread with interest, and got to say, all things considered, I agree 100% with 4V man.

Look after the core product, win the contents of the working mans wallet, and the Halo product will evolve. The reputation of Ford producing a tough working ute has been a little lost over the last few years, but it could be turned around.

My heart wants me to shout bloody murder - about the proposition that the FPV V8 ute will die, but it more than likely will result in greater resourcing to the other models. Each to get a bigger slice of the developement pie.

Long live the V8 ute.

xdc351 · 23-02-2010, 06:44 PM

Please people lets get our facts straight... payload is 550kgs for XR8 utes and thats 32kgs more than the SS.

Show pony my butt... I can tow 2300kgs in my XR8 auto (50 kgs more than a hilux) and hold my own in a straight line and through twisties against cars I have no right what-so-ever to challenge in a ute. If you don't get it, there's no way I'll ever be able to explain it to you...

FWIW the only thing that stopped me getting an FPV was the extra 20k I would have had to fork over which is pretty hard to justify, though I would have loved brembo's.

Franco Cozzo · 23-02-2010, 07:19 PM

Also don't get me wrong guys, if someone gave me something with a Boss, or I could get one real cheap I'd gladly drive it

But I prefer the I6T over the 8.

HSE2 · 23-02-2010, 08:01 PM

Stick to the topic please people. Posts that were altered were done so because they was referencing conversation that was not heading the thread in a healthy direction.

Bossxr8 · 23-02-2010, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by captain awesome

this thread is about the show pony utes.
but i think standard falcon is 1000kg and commodore is 800kg.
xrs go to about 420 but because it has 'sports' suspension
and the ss is about 470kg

1200kg payload is available on base model utes. Thats pretty impressive. I'd love to see a base model Commodore ute carry that.

XR Martin · 23-02-2010, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

1200kg payload is available on base model utes. Thats pretty impressive. I'd love to see a base model Commodore ute carry that.

Thats the bare chassis though, doesnt include a tray.

XR Martin · 23-02-2010, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamshaaft

IRS is great, as seen in the AU, but the number isn't really entirely up for live rear axles. The second fastest production car around the Nurburgring (unfortunately this is the only track where these world benchmarks are set, so I can't give you a more accurate composite figure from several dozen tracks) has a live rear axle, albeit a very unique setup. Just thought I'd point it out, though like you guys I believe if they could afford it it would be a great way of starting to differentiate models.

Which car are you talking about?

fordOwner · 23-02-2010, 11:24 PM

Pursuit of happyness no longer... Even with the prospet of a supercharged new 5.0L V8?

DAMN shame! (For the people who can afford one and wants one)

Kamshaaft · 24-02-2010, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Which car are you talking about?

I can't name it here, it's a dirty word - and it's a bit off topic. Starts with 'C' and ends with an 'ette'. It's official personal best was down to 7:22.4 on the Nordschliefe last time I heard.

geckoGT · 24-02-2010, 11:33 AM

The difference is in the terms of the live axle and comparing it to race cars is that we do not drive on race tracks, we have bumps, pot holes and undulations to contend with in our corners.

Yes the vette may have a live axle, so does a V8SC and both steer through corners very well, but neither have dinosaur breed leaf springs that belong on a horse drawn wagons and trucks (not performance cars).

CFOUR · 24-02-2010, 11:34 AM

Au and ba/f stylesides where rated a 850kg's I have however had 1.2t in my ute without any issues except making me want to lower it beyond the legal limit which it currently sits milimeters above.
Saying that my dad had 1.8t in his ba2 1tonner before it was even run in.
I did once see a comodore ute with a feather mattress In the back bottom out.

Kamshaaft · 24-02-2010, 11:37 AM

I did mention that my example wasn't your typical live axle, but could have put more emphasis on that point (that conventional live axles are becoming dated), as opposed to using the example to say 'there are exceptions'.

FPV+fteT3 · 24-02-2010, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordOwner

DAMN shame! (For the people who can afford one and wants one)

Thats the only people this will effect but its only a rumour like everything else time will tell. If the FPV ute goes because of sales the GS may as well follow they made bugger all of them and there is still plenty available in ford dealerships not a great sales success as some thought.
Consumers have a lot of choice nowdays but offering less choice by certain manufacturers will cost them those potential sales as customers will buy something that has what they want from someone else.
IMO FPV are all over the shop with the models they currently have something has to change for them to increase profits dont be thinking they will kill off a model and put more money into another model as that wont happen the world, Ford and FPV is run by shareholders and accountants not unfortunately by car enthosiasts

CFOUR · 24-02-2010, 12:13 PM

It doesn't help sales that every ford man and his dog has know about a power-plant change for well over a year.

T3ts50 · 24-02-2010, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CFOUR

It doesn't help sales that every ford man and his dog has know about a power-plant change for well over a year.

Exactly, I would do the exact same thing.

XR Martin · 24-02-2010, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamshaaft

I can't name it here, it's a dirty word - and it's a bit off topic. Starts with 'C' and ends with an 'ette'. It's official personal best was down to 7:22.4 on the Nordschliefe last time I heard.

Err, Its had IRS ever since the 60s...