Mondeo vs Sportswagon

[prydey]

i thought this thread was about mondeo v sportwagon! the falcon wagon debate has been done to death about 5 times.

if i needed a wagon, i would buy a mondeo long before i considered a commodore.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Seeing the wagon battle hot up again, I think a Camry and Aurion wagon would sell gangbusters, but it will never happen while Americans dont buy wagons.

What?

They dropped the Camry wagon for a reason, and with Aurion selling less than 1000 a month I can't see an Aurion wagon "sell gangbuster".

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

What?

They dropped the Camry wagon for a reason, and with Aurion selling less than 1000 a month I can't see an Aurion wagon "sell gangbuster".

The 'reason' they dropped it is that the American market does not want a wagon so it wasnt design or engineered. In America they can sell up to 350,000 camrys a year - that market was given priority.

Locally the reason Aurion doesnt sell well is because its a 6 cylinder sedan, look at the disastrous sales figure for Falcon, Epica, Maxima and Accord.

Aurion and Camry are basically the same car, so only one wagon version with slight differences. I can see the 4 cylinder Camry wagon being a big winner.

Look at Mondeo and Mazda 6, majority of Mondeos are now wagon and the Mazda 6 Touring wagon is now the biggest selling variant in the entire Mazda 6 range (recently overtaking Mazda 6 Classic Hatch). Camry/Aurion wagon twins could well, especially being locally made.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Truth to tell, Ford probably kept the Falcon station wagon around way longer than they should have
but instead of thanks, they are now seen as the biggest B's for not doing a replacement..

The wagon really didn't cost them much in the end. It kept the numbers up. It was pretty steady on sales each month. Ford could always justify a business case for the wagon until Euro 4 came along.

Either way I'd buy a terri over either wagon.

[Carby]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

Holden Commodore Sportswagon:

• RWD, check.

• Powerful motor.

• Crappy bottom-end that is masked by an ever-shifting crappy gearbox.

• Crappy gearbox.

• Crappy smoothness for a modern-day V6.

• Crappy interior.

• Crappy space for a wagon.

• Crappy space for a hatch.

• Crappy ergonomics and functions.

• Crappy visibility (understatement).

• Crappy ride quality for normal roads.

• Good by Holden's standards (seeing that Holden is getting all their other cars made/manufactured/designed in Korea by Daewoo they should get this dungbox done their too).

• Good by bogan standards.

Crappy Post - Check! - knew that when you libeled every Commodore driver and probably Falcon driver with the last comment.........

[stevz]

Taken from another thread...... says it all really.

Yes well apparently a large lease company in QLD had some Mondeos given back to them due to sagging in the rear... The company said they were a workplace health and safety risk and that Ford should not be selling them as a direct falcon replacement. Apparently the road manners of the cars changed drastically with a load in the rear.

That company has now moved to sports wagons apparently, we will see how they go!

[vztrt]

^^^Hmmm wasn't the VT dropped by Telstra cause it couldn't handle the weight?

Funny enough the Siemens techs seem happy with the Mondeo wagons.

[Nikked]

"Ford should stop selling them as a direct falcon repalcement"

what jokerz...

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by vztrt

^^^Hmmm wasn't the VT dropped by Telstra cause it couldn't handle the weight?

The official reason was that Ford offered a production line LPG fitment.

But I heard apparantly many naughty Tesltra employees were filling the Commodores with petrol on the fuel card, driving home then siphoning the fuel into the Mrs' car. Dedicated LPG solved all that.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Brazen

The official reason was that Ford offered a production line LPG fitment.

But I heard apparantly many naughty Tesltra employees were filling the Commodores with petrol on the fuel card, driving home then siphoning the fuel into the Mrs' car. Dedicated LPG solved all that.

Bull. Telstra had petrol wagons. The Falcon was found to be able to carry more.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Bull. Telstra had petrol wagons. The Falcon was found to be able to carry more.

All Telstra Falcon wagon are LPG, but Im not denying leaf springs are WAAAYYY better for loads.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by Brazen

The official reason was that Ford offered a production line LPG fitment.

But I heard apparantly many naughty Tesltra employees were filling the Commodores with petrol on the fuel card, driving home then siphoning the fuel into the Mrs' car. Dedicated LPG solved all that.

im sure a few would have done this but silly to think it was company wide

[TheInterceptor]

Dad and i put in items totalling around 400kgs if not more in the family BF. It was slammed to the max, as if it were on Ultra Low's. Still drove tops, pulled great, only bottomed out on one of those larger speed bump bulges taken at 30kmph.

I would like to see a Mondeo or Sportshaha do that.

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by Carby

Crappy Post - Check! - knew that when you libeled every Commodore driver and probably Falcon driver with the last comment.........

Sue me. I was only going off what I've experienced with it, it's not my fault the BF is a better car to be in, even with the 4sp.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

im sure a few would have done this but silly to think it was company wide

Oh Im not suggesting it was company wide just a rumour I heard through a dealer grapevine. Holden was offering dual fuel for the next contract and Ford was offering dedicated LPG - they went with Ford.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by TheInterceptor

Dad and i put in items totalling around 400kgs if not more in the family BF. It was slammed to the max, as if it were on Ultra Low's. Still drove tops, pulled great, only bottomed out on one of those larger speed bump bulges taken at 30kmph.

I would like to see a Mondeo or Sportshaha do that.

thats the beauty of leaf springs, the camber stays relatively the same no matter the load.

[stevz]

Originally Posted by Nikked

"Ford should stop selling them as a direct falcon repalcement"

what jokerz...

They do have a point though. You'd be kidding yourself to think that a light duty front wheel drive wagon like Mondeo can just step in and do the same job as a Falcon wagon which had leaf springs and a rugged rwd driveline. Front wheel drive and load carrying simply doesn't mix in my books, which is why trucks/utes/vans/commercial vehicles are all rwd. But no, ask some of the self proclaimed 'experts' on this forum and they will tell you rear wheel drive is only for bogans.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by stevz

Front wheel drive and load carrying simply doesn't mix in my books,

this could be construed as being stuck in the past

Originally Posted by stevz

But no, ask some of the self proclaimed 'experts' on this forum and they will tell you rear wheel drive is only for bogans.

rear wheel drive isn't for bogans, but too many on here dismiss fwd cars far too readily simply because 10-20 yrs ago they weren't very good for doing things that rwd cars handled in their stride.

fwd tech has come a long way and for the average family, a new fwd car will do EVERYTHING a rwd car does with no compromise.

the handful of people that regularly load up their rwd wagons or businesses that have a reasonable payload would need to assess the situation a little more thoroughly.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by Brazen

All Telstra Falcon wagon are LPG, but Im not denying leaf springs are WAAAYYY better for loads.

Not all of them were LPG... Alot of the country ones were Petrol due to the availability of LPG.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by stevz

Front wheel drive and load carrying simply doesn't mix in my books, which is why trucks/utes/vans/commercial vehicles are all rwd. But no, ask some of the self proclaimed 'experts' on this forum and they will tell you rear wheel drive is only for bogans.

http://www.technispec.com/album/1967_02.htm

This was regarded as better than its Holden and Ford counterparts at the time, had a larger tray, better traction grip and didn't have rear springs to sag like the others! Automotive history extends back beyond the last 10 years you know.

I think it was also on this forum that some self-proclaimed expert said front-wheel drive cars could never win Bathurst - forgetting a certain something that happened in the 1960s.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by flappist

Yes I can see how emission laws prevented the I6 being used in any new models after the BF3, FGs don't have an I6 option any more do they?. Obviously the ecoLpi would not have worked either.

I wonder if the lack of profit on the sales of the falcon wagon as it was almost completely fleet based was more of a reason not to spend money developing a new model.

I remember a time when Fairlane and LTD were HUGE sellers and before that Falcon Panelvan was a winner.

Falcon wagon died because it was not profitable.....no other reason as will any other model that fails to make money.

There in no room for emotion in a balance sheet.

Lol... It was actually one of the more profitable cars they had... Most of the engineering costs were written off many years ago, considering everything from the front door back was from 1998... The issue with Ford is they are trying to not have competing segments, they need to make cars like the Mondeo work before Ford head office will allocate them cars, thats where the issues lies. If they don't sell enough, they will not get the allocation. They basically had 3 competing cars at one stage, Mondeo Wagon, Falcon Wagon and Territory wagon... They picked the best 2 and dropped the Falcon. They did the same thing with the RTV to protect Ranger.

The Mondeo is a great car if your going to use it as a family hack, but as I have already commented in another thread it is not a work tool, I know of a lease company that had 3 of them dropped back due to them sagging in the rear under load and being unsafe. Ford could have easily continued with the BFIII for atleast another 4 - 5 years selling 400 - 500 cars a month for the fleet market alone, with most of the changes required being pretty straight forward... they did it with the X series Falcon utes for how many years?? basically till 1999!! There was no need for an FG based wagon.

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by stevz

They do have a point though. You'd be kidding yourself to think that a light duty front wheel drive wagon like Mondeo can just step in and do the same job as a Falcon wagon which had leaf springs and a rugged rwd driveline. Front wheel drive and load carrying simply doesn't mix in my books, which is why trucks/utes/vans/commercial vehicles are all rwd. But no, ask some of the self proclaimed 'experts' on this forum and they will tell you rear wheel drive is only for bogans.

You shouldn't get upset and hurl insults at members here, because no one said this and implying so means you have a very poor sense of reading or comprehension.

What people are saying is because the VE is actually an inferior all round product it doesn't automatically mean it defaults to being a better car by virtue of it's "RWD" or that's "Aussie". You need to give credit where it's due and the Mondeo is the better all round car. So, when these same members here just don't get that concept some "self proclaimed expert" has to come along spell it out.

When I state certain aspects are crappy it does seem harsh, when in actual reality it is acceptable. You need to appreciate, though, that it is a judgement based in relation to another vehicle (which happens to be an older design) thus in the context of making comparisons, it pretty much is a disappointment (crappy).

[prydey]

one thing to bear in mind is car reviews are basically someones opinion.