If you got caught smuggling Heroin... - Page 4

Thunder · 02-12-2005, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parawolf

Nah see I think you might have misunderstood me................................................ ........ Lethal injection is far more suitable I would have thought, and kind of ironic in this situation don't you think? :gren:

Ha ha, that's justice. Oh wait, its 9am....has he been hung yet?

4.9 EF Futura · 02-12-2005, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XA Coupsta

But you've just been caught havent you? In one country going straight to another? The example being debated here is he is in TRANSIT. Not stopping at that country, simply sitting there waiting for his next flight. So no I dont believe you could use that excuse if busted in Australia with 50 tonnes of heroin. Its a totally different scenario.

Take a deep breath XA. Relax. Taking the unpopular stance here on AFF can be somewhat of a taxing job.

Having said this... I dont agree with your statements on transit being a different scenario. You only need look at the proximity of singapore in relation to the major opiate production fields of the world to see that drug running through singapore is not a handful of isolated incidents. They have a problem and I think this is about a strong a "dont run drugs through here" message as it gets.

But then (in one of my textbook self contradictions) you really have to wonder just how tough singapore's stance is on heroin trafficing... I mean, its been said that Nguyen's heroin most likely came from the "golden triangle" aka Burma - as do most of the opiates which pass through Singapore. Now - a rational person would think that Singapore might approach the Burmese military regime and suggest they may wish to get out of the pocket of the Burmese drug lords because "we're shopping a bit of sh** over the Nguyen lad".

Au contraire.

Singapore does huge amounts of business with Burma and there's even speculation they invest money directly with one of the largest opium producers there. I guess its fair to assume that when people are working on your poppy field at gunpoint without pay, any money you invest into heroin production will yield a strong rate of return (hey, wouldnt mind my superannuation returning 700% pa).

So it begs the question - what is the motive for hanging people who run drugs through your country when there's a damn good chance you are supporting the individuals responsible for its production? I smell a rat and would be interested to see how many Kyat (burmese currency) it costs for the singapore government to maintain such a hypocrasy.

Also goes to show there's a lot more to the issue than "capital punishment - good or bad?" and "nation's sovereignty - do we have a say?".

Quote:

Im simply trying to challenge peoples very strong beliefs on here about how easy it is to simply scream 'lets hang him' like we are back in the neanderthal dark ages of humanity.

Good - give em hell. There's a lot of people around here who need to be challenged as a popular opinion is often established quickly within a thread a single sided debate often ensures. Unfortunately I'm with 'em on this one

geckoGT · 02-12-2005, 09:53 AM

The quantity of drugs that he had is very large and not difficult to believe that by the time it is cut and hit the streets it would be enough for about 25000 (about $1M)doses. He knew the risk and took the chance, now he must pay the price. If a Singaporese was to distribute drugs in our country we would expect them to take our punishment (albeit less than their country's), we have no right to expect a foreign country to bow down to our wishes just as no other country has any right to expect us to bow down to them. Singapore is not the only country that has the death penalty, murder someone in some states of the US and you will cop the hot shot. My point is it is their country, their law and when you travel you have to respect those laws, you don't then you pay their price.
As for the minutes silence, not a hope. There is no way I will give a criminal the same level of respect that I would give someone who died in defence of their country or who contributed greatly to their country.
I do feel sorry for ther mother in a way, I just don't think she is totally blame free, they are her kids and she does have some responsibility for the upbringing. I do not totally trust this story about the brother, smacks of pulling on heart strings to try and get away with it. If it were true, then surely they would be eager to give up names of who he is in trouble with, that way the end dealers here could be caught and the market reduced. I am sure that the Singporese would assist Australia with this and the family could be protected by our local law. Instead they have just made the claim, but no one has been bought to justice here, despite the fact that they have contacts here that the AFP would love to meet.

gozza · 02-12-2005, 10:32 AM

the ones doing the drugs are gonna get it another way anyway
makes me angry when i see people voicing there extremems opinions on drugs
calling users losers and assuming ther lifes ed up
i enjoy having a puff on a J from time to time...im strongly against chems and injected crap...but its no different from alcahol....alcahol can stuff you up just the same as weed...but you learn to drink in moderation..
but we are talkin about heroin here so what im saying isn't totally relevant

KeeddleZ · 02-12-2005, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monty

I cant beleive the first 10 minutes of the 4.30 news was dedicated to a guy who smuggles drugs that kill people. I think the punishment for this kind of thing, in this case would be to make him shoot up 400g of heroin all at once.

:

i seem to agree, if they think its allright to traffik drugs, make them have all of them themselfs and become fully aware of the damage there going to cause. I seem to remember many parents teaching kids this way about cigerettes and ill never touch one again!

WASP · 02-12-2005, 10:46 AM

http://www.dailytelegraph.news.com.a...001021,00.html

Thunder · 02-12-2005, 11:09 AM

Quote from newspaper ......

"In Melbourne, a church where Nguyen went to school tolled its bell 25 times – once for every year of his life....."

Not to seem cruel to Van's mother, how many times have we comemorated a drug dealers death like this? He has died a "hero" in many people minds!

Pesonaly i think its time for the international community to discuss the need in our modern day to still have the death penalty. But to start by holding candle light vigils, ringing church bells and holding a minutes silence is a smack (no pun intended) in the face of honest people who follow the law of all countries and work for a living not sell drugs.

We dont like the idea of another country killing our citizens, but this was HIS fault.

42.57lb · 02-12-2005, 11:13 AM

Let's distribute this to schools:

tragedy is, if some stupid jerk is gonna be a smacky, how can you stop him?

XA Coupsta · 02-12-2005, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

Take a deep breath XA. Relax. Taking the unpopular stance here on AFF can be somewhat of a taxing job.

Man thank you for your post! Laughing at it. You bet its a tough job taking an unpopular stance on this forum! But thats alright - wouldnt have it any other way and thats why this forum is a great one - coz we are allowed to represent our views even if they arent a majority one. Full respect to you though for such a well written peice.

You are spot on about the relationship with Burma and Singapore and there is surely more to it. More than you and I will ever know I guess.

At the end of the day - ending this kids life will achieve ZERO. Execute a drug dealer - and you have achieved nothing. You wont deter the smack head on the street to give up - hell you wont deter drug mules and their cartels with their continuance to smuggle drugs. You wont slow the trade - there is plenty more of this stuff where that came from.

And yet we have mass murderers who take lives directly still living? Executing this kid is wrong.

And I never knew there was so many strictly law abiding, moralistic people on AFF (which is in danger of becoming Australian Redneck Forums with some posts tendered here).

Im happy to go round in circles with it for a little longer.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoxr8

If a Singaporese was to distribute drugs in our country we would expect them to take our punishment.

He didnt distribute drugs in Singapore at all???? Is that not clear???

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoxr8

I do not totally trust this story about the brother, smacks of pulling on heart strings to try and get away with it. If it were true, then surely they would be eager to give up names of who he is in trouble with, that way the end dealers here could be caught and the market reduced. I am sure that the Singporese would assist Australia with this and the family could be protected by our local law. Instead they have just made the claim, but no one has been bought to justice here, despite the fact that they have contacts here that the AFP would love to meet.

You wanna do your homework some more on this one if you choose to be so hardline with your opinion. You know what - Van Nguyen did infact give information which led to the arrest of people here in Sydney (major players of the game). And yes - our Australian Govt used this as reasoning as to why he should be spared his life. Got him nowhere, he still was executed even though he assisted to bring down the big players. His family now will be sleeping with one eye open.

RIP Van Nguyen.

XA Coupsta · 02-12-2005, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 42.57lb

Let's distribute this to schools:

tragedy is, if some stupid jerk is gonna be a smacky, how can you stop him?

So........alcohol and cigarettes (both addictive, life ruining DRUGS) are ok?

Oh yeh - they are ok. They are legal. The Govt makes much $$$ from the sale of these and they are accepted by society.

Hypocritical in my eyes.

EFIwindsor · 02-12-2005, 11:32 AM

I am not fussed that he was exacuted...(i don't think hamging is the right option thought) leathal injection is more humain.

If the rest of the world had a tuffer stance on drugs....eg death penalty the would probably be fewer drugs in the world.

I read in somebody elses post that he was not taking only carrying drugs...That is even worse...I say Suck he got caught in singapore and did not make it to Australia...Now he is dead and won't be doing it again..If he got caught in Australia he would probably got 2 year sentence suspended immediately with parole after 2 weeks or some other slap on the wrist meaningless punishment.

Think of how many lives he has contributed to wrecking and/or killing by supplying drugs.

On the same note i am glad the Australian federal police told the Bali Government about the "Bali 9" and that they didn't get caught in Australia as they will more than likely get the dealth penalty too...not a poor **** slap on the wrist....

Them's my thoughts for what they are worth.

O yeah lets try and get them transfered to an Australian prision so that the tax payers can foot the 6+ figure bill each year for keeping them alive and pay for them to get a tertiary education while thay are in there.

max^power · 02-12-2005, 11:34 AM

This guy is no hero in my mind, and its and insult to every hard working aussie out there if ANYONE thinks he is. I wonder what the diggers would say...

Lets take another angle here. If he was an aboriginal, would they kick up such a fuss? If he was a white Australian with deep roots in this country, would they kick up such a big fuss? Somehow i doubt it.

I reserve my compassion for people that deserve it, people that did nothing wrong and got punished/abused/hurt. Not drug dealers that got caught - they're helping to feed a habbit that cause alot of crime, ever had your car/house broken into? bike/car stolen? shop burgled/held up? Drug suppliers cause alot more problems to other areas of the community than just feeding drug addicts, look further down the line.

02-12-2005, 11:37 AM

Hmmm while i was for hanging him, something about it did feel wrong. Another human life Gone, well Taken in this case. Nazi criminals were executed...Himmler = Nguyen.

But not being directly affected by drugs, i guess its easier for me to be sympathetic.

Im ok wih this, and ok with those who are saying...respect another countries laws...just as long as we dont pick and choose which ones we want to respect.

Next time we hear of an adulterer in Iran getting stoned to death, we should also accept it...coz its the law of the land, and they knew the consequences.

42.57lb · 02-12-2005, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XA Coupsta

So........alcohol and cigarettes (both addictive, life ruining DRUGS) are ok?

Oh yeh - they are ok. They are legal. The Govt makes much $$$ from the sale of these and they are accepted by society.

Hypocritical in my eyes.

That's right, they are, couldn't disagree with you there, but then again the risks associated with them might be considerably lower than heroin. Also there are waringings on smokes that tell you that they will hurt you, and there are age restrictions of both. The smack that Jo Junkie just bought has no information regarding purity/components/side effects and no it doesn't get taxed.

By the way, the revenue raised by the tax on alcohol/tobacco products is what pays for the programs to try to make people quit/sober up. Interestingly enough there is no tax on recreational drugs/class A's so everyone else pays for their problems anyways.

02-12-2005, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Lets take another angle here. If he was an aboriginal, would they kick up such a fuss? If he was a white Australian with deep roots in this country, would they kick up such a big fuss? Somehow i doubt it.

who is they????

You are seriously mistaken, if you dont think it would be different if it was a white australian...i personally dont think race should come in to it. Criminal is a criminal. But since you brought it up...ive read/heard people say about the corby case...

"Bring back the aid australia sent to indonesia...give us our aid back or free corby"...sounds like a big deal to me.

And on this very forum..we've had ppl say "send their families back where they came from..."

I have no personal opinion regarding this statement, but it does imply something does it not, because your average white australian like myself, wouldnt be subject to that statement.

And lets not even get into the aboriginal case...

All i know is hes dead..saying he was stupid is a mild understatement. Hopefully it wont be in vain, and will teach otehr young australians that no matter what the circumstances, there are severe punishments for disobeying the law.

TheSneakiness · 02-12-2005, 12:00 PM

What I can't understand is why he is being regarded as a hero?

He didn't do anything to even be considered one.

To me, he was a fool to think he could get away with drug smuggling.

geckoGT · 02-12-2005, 12:00 PM

XA Coupsta, although I may seem to have a hard line, my feelings on the matter go way deeper than I have the time to disclose on this forum. I do not now, and never will feel that we should force our views on the law enforcement of another country. As for this "he was not distributing in Singapore", because drug dealers are such trust worthy people we can be saure that he did not meet someone in the airport and pass some on for deals in singapore, I think not. It is their country and their right to make their own laws, will we miss a drug dealer? I will not. As for the comparison to murderers, all comparisons have been made are to australian law, what is the Singaporese law for murder?
Move on to his family, I am sorry that they have to suffer this loss, like I am sorry for all the parents that have lost a child through the use of Van Nguyen's drugs. In regards to sleeping with one eye open, we all choose our path and have to live with the consequences, end of story. Befor anyone gives the "they had a hard life" line, so did I, one that would shock everyone reading this so I do know what it is like. That is why I feel it everytime I have to resus a OD, I keep thinking that it could have been me if I had not made some of the choices that I did. That is why I try my hardest to save their sorry butt.
As for the not being able to stop the flow of drugs, why have laws then, it's too hard so lets just not care and let the drugs flow, great idea.
I will remember to give this poor misguided individual a second thought the next time I am resuscitating a 16 year old heroin OD and will certainly remember to give all the drug dealers a big warm thankyou when I have to explain to his friends and family that we could not save him, would you like to join me for that?

02-12-2005, 12:06 PM

ok im getting on the verge of spamming...sorry mods.

I certainly dont think hes a hero...but neither do i think hes the devil reincarnated. I can understand why his family and friends would want to hold a vigil for him, and would talk about all that was good in his life...thats what they are there for.

But i also understand the justifiable anger and vitriol those who deal with drug addicts everyday have towards him/drug dealers.

I guess its the glee some are expressing thats a bit disturbing.

gozza · 02-12-2005, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoxr8

As for the not being able to stop the flow of drugs, why have laws then, it's too hard so lets just not care and let the drugs flow, great idea.

just because you can't stop it doesn't mean to say you can't try
who said it was too hard?
i said others will get the drugs another way...that does not mean lets open the floodgates and make drug dealing legal...its just a fact...

The Monty · 02-12-2005, 12:15 PM

For those who think this is wrong, if this guy sold some heroin to your son or daughter because they wanted to try it, and they ended up dead, would you want to take revenge amd kill this guy. You are kidding your self if you didnt.

gozza · 02-12-2005, 12:18 PM

no your kidding yourself if you do
ask yourself why your daughter felt the need to inject

if your son died from lung cancer are you gonna kill the servo attendant who sold them??
if your daughter died from alcahol poisoning are you going to blow up a brewerary??

XA Coupsta · 02-12-2005, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoxr8

XA Coupsta, although I may seem to have a hard line, my feelings on the matter go way deeper than I have the time to disclose on this forum. I do not now, and never will feel that we should force our views on the law enforcement of another country. As for this "he was not distributing in Singapore", because drug dealers are such trust worthy people we can be saure that he did not meet someone in the airport and pass some on for deals in singapore, I think not. It is their country and their right to make their own laws, will we miss a drug dealer? I will not. As for the comparison to murderers, all comparisons have been made are to australian law, what is the Singaporese law for murder?
Move on to his family, I am sorry that they have to suffer this loss, like I am sorry for all the parents that have lost a child through the use of Van Nguyen's drugs. In regards to sleeping with one eye open, we all choose our path and have to live with the consequences, end of story. Befor anyone gives the "they had a hard life" line, so did I, one that would shock everyone reading this so I do know what it is like. That is why I feel it everytime I have to resus a OD, I keep thinking that it could have been me if I had not made some of the choices that I did. That is why I try my hardest to save their sorry butt.
As for the not being able to stop the flow of drugs, why have laws then, it's too hard so lets just not care and let the drugs flow, great idea.
I will remember to give this poor misguided individual a second thought the next time I am resuscitating a 16 year old heroin OD and will certainly remember to give all the drug dealers a big warm thankyou when I have to explain to his friends and family that we could not save him, would you like to join me for that?

Gecko I know your line of work - and I respect it (and you) immensely.

1. It is actually proven (whether drug dealers are trustworthy or not) that he didnt meet anyone at the airport. He just simply didnt. Trust doesnt come into it - fact does. That heroin NEVER hit the streets and was never GOING TO hit the streets of Singapore.

2. I query your usage of term 'drug dealer'. As far as I know (and I have been following this case very closely) - he wont show up in Sydney with two keys of heroin and start selling it. He'll simply bring them in - give them to the big guns and they distribute it to sell. Sure I might be hung up on terminology here but he would more likely be referred to as drug mule/courier. Doesnt lessen his involvement however - but I think it is a point of difference worth noting.

3. His family is sleeping with one eye open - due to Nguyen dobbing in some major players and they've been arrested. Therefore it wasnt their decision but you are saying they have to live with their decision? huh? And that comment was also brought about by your inaccurate statements about how he should have brought people to justice. Fact is - he did. Fact is - his family will now be a target for underworld justice for this. Fact is THEY didnt choose that.

4. Im fully with Gozza. I never once said lets abandon all laws regarding drug smuggling coz we cant stop the flow. Show me where I said that? So please dont make it seem as though I did then ridicule me for it.

02-12-2005, 12:36 PM

I know some ppl love the PM and some ppl hate the PM...and feel that the govt should have done more/less...I personally feel the response was fine, and the PM did what he could without groveling to Singapore.

This a quote from the PM..and is worth noting

Quote:

Don't use them, don't touch them, don't carry them, don't traffic in them, and don't imagine for a moment - for a moment - that you can risk carrying drugs anywhere in Asia without suffering the most severe consequences.

"I think that is the most important message that should come out of this traumatic and tragic event, over and above anything else, if there's to be a message."

source: http://smh.com.au/news/national/pm-a...422084249.html

The Monty · 02-12-2005, 12:52 PM

Gozza, I think you are probably right, I just dont think things through to the full extent before speaking/posting

gozza · 02-12-2005, 12:58 PM

we all have our moments lol

blueoval · 02-12-2005, 01:24 PM

I think van Ngyuyen (what ever his name is) was very sorry for what he did before he was killed. I too am one for not looking at him as a hero. I think he is like any other crim, and got treated the same as others have in the same jail. I however do feel sorry for his family. But I think his crimes are paid for with his death.

my 2c

LTDHO · 02-12-2005, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XA Coupsta

So........alcohol and cigarettes (both addictive, life ruining DRUGS) are ok?

Since when has alcohol been addictive?
I know drinkers, but don't know anyone Addicted.

Oh an Illegal drugs are pushed onto kids, where are kids make there mind up (to be popular) with alc or smokes.

I can't remamber ever seeing a theif steel to pay for his smoking addition?

GRNKPR · 02-12-2005, 01:46 PM

all over know , people should think before they try to do things like this we all know the rules and he must of been willing to pay the ultimate price and he has so how many times do people nedd to be told and as for the Bali nine i hope they think all this is worth it
we all feel sorry for them when they get caught but people dont think of the lives they can ruin if this stuff gets in let this be a lesson

02-12-2005, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTDHO

Since when has alcohol been addictive?
I know drinkers, but don't know anyone Addicted.

Oh an Illegal drugs are pushed onto kids, where are kids make there mind up (to be popular) with alc or smokes.

I can't remamber ever seeing a theif steel to pay for his smoking addition?

Your joking right?? i mean this has to be a gee up....

Alcohol is not an addiction? what do you think Alcoholics Anonymous(AA) is?

big_pete · 02-12-2005, 01:59 PM

while i dont believe he should have died for his crimes, it irritates me that the media is treating him like royalty.

if you were told a heroin dealer got killed whilst dealing heroin, you wouldnt blink an eye, and neither would the media and all these protesters