High Performance Cars And P Platers

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by xdc351

Woah, relax there buddy. You felt it nessesary to point out every perceved flaw in any of my arguments and even called my a arguments a '****' earlier.

Can't take as good as you give?

I called you posts ****, not you a ****er

[xdc351]

I called your posts unresearched, you yourself said you were getting on a high horse.

Good to see how far off topic this really got though. I've had enough of it.

[Kryton]

time for mods me thinks.....this is going no where at all.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by davway

time for mods me thinks.....this is going no where at all.

I disagree entirely, this is a good healthy discussion where people debate their point of view, not everyone has to agree with everyone else, but the debate is good. I appreciate some of the points and some people agree with my points, no need for moderators to intervene here.

If people want to post their opinions, then it is the purpose of a forum to have discussion on the points, some are going to agree, some are not going to agree, but that is life.

I don't have any problem being the sole debater of one side, that is my perogative.

Why should I sit idly by and let people slap each other the back for stupid or illegal behaviour when those behaviours are against my principles.

[XR-ENVI]

Chronicle......thats exactly right...its against the law and shouldnt be encouraged here

ive got a theory about the whole 18 19 yr old p plater i just want to go faster thing.

FACT ONE...P platers are accident virgins. once they pop their cherry surely to christ they learn just how fast they should be going at all times.

FACT TWO..if they learn in a 4 cylinder...a six cylinder is a lot quicker. if they learn in a six then a v8 is a lot quicker. but it only takes so long to get used to just what a car is capable of, then you want more.

FACT THREE..P platers never have enough experience, then when they are all alone, they dont drive constantly enough. im lucky enough to have the KMs behind me.

FACT FOUR..how many p platers have given a car hell? maybe if they got all that excitement out early...like ripping massive burnouts n donuts and drifting and skidding and quarter mile action...maybe if they got all that shit out of their system as a part of a final exam to be allowed on the road they wouldnt be so anxious to blow their load and get themselves killed.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by XDKruzer

ive got a theory about the whole 18 19 yr old p plater i just want to go faster thing....
FACT FOUR..how many p platers have given a car hell? maybe if they got all that excitement out early...like ripping massive burnouts n donuts and drifting and skidding and quarter mile action...maybe if they got all that shit out of their system as a part of a final exam to be allowed on the road they wouldnt be so anxious to blow their load and get themselves killed.

I would like agree with you, but in my experience even when they do this, they wil still go out and do it on roads etc, because their mates are with them, they get egged on by someone else, or they just love the thrill, the adrenalin rush o fit.

[XRQTOR]

Originally Posted by XDKruzer

ive got a theory about the whole 18 19 yr old p plater i just want to go faster thing.

FACT ONE...P platers are accident virgins. once they pop their cherry surely to christ they learn just how fast they should be going at all times.

FACT TWO..if they learn in a 4 cylinder...a six cylinder is a lot quicker. if they learn in a six then a v8 is a lot quicker. but it only takes so long to get used to just what a car is capable of, then you want more.

FACT THREE..P platers never have enough experience, then when they are all alone, they dont drive constantly enough. im lucky enough to have the KMs behind me.

FACT FOUR..how many p platers have given a car hell? maybe if they got all that excitement out early...like ripping massive burnouts n donuts and drifting and skidding and quarter mile action...maybe if they got all that shit out of their system as a part of a final exam to be allowed on the road they wouldnt be so anxious to blow their load and get themselves killed.

Its stupid thinking like this that has bought on power restrictions. If anyone wants to be stupid in a car regaurdless of what they are MADE to drive they will be stupid. Have a look at those parents who make their kds drive little front wheel drive hatchbacks, cant do a burn out so they roll the car onto maccs trays rip up the hand brake and become insainly stupid. It happens every day, they'll think of anther way of being stupid which will more than likely be more dangerous.

[SSbaby]

I don't know whether it's the way of the world or what.. but people are far too impatient and not very courteous on our roads. If we could redress this problem then we'd be half way there to improving road safety.

I do blame the greedy state governments for people's generally poor driving standards. The 3km/h rule here in Vic is an absolute joke. People don't like to be treated like children and it's exactly how the government is treating motorists. How about a system that encourages and rewards good drivers instead of threats of fines or loss of licence?

We were all P-platers once too... no good blaming just P-platers as there are lots of poor experienced drivers who continue to hog the right lanes, ignorant of the traffic around them... much to the annoyance of people like myself.

[FRDXR6]

Originally Posted by XRQTOR

Its stupid thinking like this that has bought on power restrictions. If anyone wants to be stupid in a car regaurdless of what they are MADE to drive they will be stupid. Have a look at those parents who make their kds drive little front wheel drive hatchbacks, cant do a burn out so they roll the car onto maccs trays rip up the hand brake and become insainly stupid. It happens every day, they'll think of anther way of being stupid which will more than likely be more dangerous.

This is true i have had a 5spd XR6 since day one of my licence and i can honestly say i have never done a burnout in it, the closest i have got is chirping the wheels of the line at the lights (which im sure EVERYONE has done at least once in their driving life).

I drive and take a lot more care of my car than a lot of friends with sh*t box vn and the like who go around ripping skids etc. From my experince kids with high powered/sports cars take a lot more care and are more catious than those with your run of the mill first car types. For example i have a mate who previously had a 97 R33 Skyline with nearly 200rwkw that car never did a burnout nor drifted, on the other hand a chick friend has a ford ka with the whole 43kw and this thing gets the absolute sh*t beaten out of it. She is not happy unless the tyres are screeching when going around a corner.

Although this link proves the contrary : (Notice P plates)

http://www.pickles.com.au/servlet/Au...m_id=500212735

[XR-ENVI]

[QUOTE=Chronicle]

BUT I think all cars should be speed limited to 120 km/h.

QUOTE]
I agree completely with you

[XRQTOR]

Originally Posted by FRDXR6

This is true i have had a 5spd XR6 since day one of my licence and i can honestly say i have never done a burnout in it, the closest i have got is chirping the wheels of the line at the lights (which im sure EVERYONE has done at least once in their driving life).

I drive and take a lot more care of my car than a lot of friends with sh*t box vn and the like who go around ripping skids etc. From my experince kids with high powered/sports cars take a lot more care and are more catious than those with your run of the mill first car types. For example i have a mate who previously had a 97 R33 Skyline with nearly 200rwkw that car never did a burnout nor drifted, on the other hand a chick friend has a ford ka with the whole 43kw and this thing gets the absolute sh*t beaten out of it. She is not happy unless the tyres are screeching when going around a corner.

Although this link proves the contrary : (Notice P plates)

http://www.pickles.com.au/servlet/Au...m_id=500212735

Hmmm My Ef xr8 lived most of it's life as a stocker with dual exhaust. It copped a hideing and never gave up, i really regret selling it as that thing was a tyre smoking machine.

[donno]

XR-ENVI

Maybe when you're stuck half way the side of a road train staring at an oncoming car hitting the 120 limiter and out of options you'll think differently. Read my previous post (page 8 i think). If there was 120 limiters, I would quite possibly be dead.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by donno

XR-ENVI

Maybe when you're stuck half way the side of a road train staring at an oncoming car hitting the 120 limiter and out of options you'll think differently. Read my previous post (page 8 i think). If there was 120 limiters, I would quite possibly be dead.

No you wouldn't, you would've thought twice about pulling out and probably wouldn't have until it was safe. When driving speed limited vehicles you adjust your driving habits very quickly.

This dilema is faced by heavy vehicle drivers in speed limited trucks & buses every single day of the year.

[XRQTOR]

[QUOTE=XR-ENVI]

Originally Posted by Chronicle

BUT I think all cars should be speed limited to 120 km/h.

QUOTE]
I agree completely with you

So what happens when i want to take my car to the strip, Launch it and run the 1/8 only and roll home or bounce it off the limiter till the 1/4 is up and get my time card showing a 28sec 1/4 time.


And if they have it so it can be disabled at the track who's going to perform/police it. How are the coppers going to police a limiter, with the Boss edit it can be turned on and off as often as we like.

[donno]

Originally Posted by Chronicle

No you wouldn't, you would've thought twice about pulling out probably wouldn't have until it was safe. When driving speed limited vehicles youadjust your driving habits very quickly.

This dilema is faced by heavy vehicle drivers in speed limited trucks & buses every single day of the year.

The fact of the matter was, I thought I could get past safely. If nothing went wrong could i get past with a 120 limiter? Yes. But the conditions changed, and I was soon in a dangerous situation. Call it inexperience if you want, I'm not denying the fact, but I bet alot of people have found themselves caught in tricky spot where they need that extra speed.

[donno]

Actually, I just calculated it. I estimated the commy would be on me in 6.5s. Travelling at a speed of 20kmh greater then the semi, with about 60m to his nose, 70m minimum to pull back in, it would take me 10s to get there. I would have been paint on the wall.

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by Chronicle

No you wouldn't, you would've thought twice about pulling out and probably wouldn't have until it was safe. When driving speed limited vehicles you adjust your driving habits very quickly.

This dilema is faced by heavy vehicle drivers in speed limited trucks & buses every single day of the year.

Mate, are you paid by the government? If so, then really your comments are a conflict of interest. Sorry but as a driver training instructer, your comments relating to speed limiting vehicles are absolutley bizarre! Why don't we just buy up those Echos and get rid of Hi-Po vehicles too? I don't know why we should have driver training at all if we follow your advice. It would be a waste of money. I don't need people like you to tell me that I shouldn't overtake at speed. I'm intelligent enough to make up my own mind, thanks. As drivers, we are not sheep!

Tell me, if you have vehicles speed limited to 120km/h and you have a scenario where the driver in front speeds up and you're stuck in the wrong lane attempting to overtake, you might not get a second chance to pull back and think twice about overtaking - you could be dead! Having the necessary speed could help avoid a potentially fatal situation. That's what I would expect driver training to teach me, how to overtake safely even if it means creeping over the speed limit to do it!

EDIT Btw, using your rationale, you should never have your car in a spin as you should drive it in accordance with the prevailing conditions. So what's the point of tackling the skid pan at your complex?

[Trevor 57]

I am not sure if you are geting the point here or not, but Truck & bus drivers do this all day every day, why are you different?

On your point of skid control, fisrtly I don't have a complex.

Secondly, you are absolutely right, if you drive to the condtions ALL the time, you don't need to know skid control.

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by Chronicle

I am sure if you are geting the point here or not, but Truck & bus drivers do this all day every day, why are you different?

Why, because I don't drive a bus or truck, I drive a car which is far more manouvreable and doesn't block visibility. It's not all about speed!

[Trevor 57]

I have driven heavy vehicles up to B-Doubles, but the concept is exactly the same.

You should try to drive something 25 metres long and weighs 62.tonne. You have to think about absolutely everything you do. Overtaking is bloody difficult and can be extremely dangerous.

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by Chronicle

I have driven heavy vehicles up to B-Doubles, but the concept is exactly the same.

You should try to drive something 25 metres long and weighs 62.tonne. You have to think about absolutely everything you do. Overtaking is bloody difficult and can be extremely dangerous.

And that's why I wouldn't attempt it at a measly 120km/h, limited. I'd be wanting to overtake quickly and safely. At only 120km/h, I wouldn't think I would be overtaking quickly or safely. I'd be putting my own life and passengers at risk.

BTW, I notice you have convenienlty avoided answering my main question. Are you paid by the government?

[TheSneakiness]

Originally Posted by Yaw

Well for starters I would be one that sits on the speed limit on the bruce highway. as for not enforcing it what are you talking about, OFTEN you will see them sit under the bridges with speed traps. Revenue raising? Perhaps, but if you don't speed you don't get caught!!!!!!

Not trying to start anything here with you Yaw, but 6 out of 7 days during the week, I travel on the Bruce Highway and see no cops except on holidays when they are doing blitzes. And maybe the occasional Saturday morning. I try to adhere to speed limits, but it's frustrating the majority of others who choose to sit under that posted limit.

[donno]

Chronicle,

You stated that if you had a 120 limiter, you would wait for a well, "flawless" time to overtake, where nothing could go wrong. Well if I could only get up to 120, I'd have to be damn sure there's nothing going to screw up my run. So now I've reduced my overtaking opportunity’s by say 10 fold. Now up the road there is a caravan doing say 90, driven by a fussy 70yo who won't pull over. Traffic lines up quite quickly as you would imagine. Now with even less options to overtake, people are going to be sitting behind this guy for longer periods. Now think of the consequences:

#Obvious traffic build up dramas (closer the traffic is to one another, the more likely an accident like a tail ender is to occur)
#Increased frustration of motorists behind the caravan, leading to road rage (which can cause accidents due to impatience and higher risk taking, possibly putting the driver in a situation where he would need that non-limited car)
#More 'driving' of the car, inability to use cruise etc. Leeds to increased driver fatigue (we all know this is a major cause of accidents)

Speed limiting cars is only a band aid fix, and what happens if you leave a band aid on too long? The wound gets infected and you end up with an even worse probelm.

[SSbaby]

donno and others,

Chronicles argument is flawed if he thinks that the same principles apply no matter if you drive a truck, bus or car even a bike. He is just preaching what he is taught or toeing the government line. If he had any credibility at all, he would be criticising the government for failing to tackle the road safety issue in the proper manner, not by 'lobbying' manufacturers to come up with speed limiters... fat lot of good that did for trucks!

[Yaw]

Originally Posted by SSbaby

donno and others,

Chronicles argument is flawed if he thinks that the same principles apply no matter if you drive a truck, bus or car even a bike. He is just preaching what he is taught or toeing the government line. If he had any credibility at all, he would be criticising the government for failing to tackle the road safety issue in the proper manner, not by 'lobbying' manufacturers to come up with speed limiters... fat lot of good that did for trucks!

Fact: Even when overtaking speed limits must be observed, You CAN get booked for speeding then too!.
As for not doing anything to help trucks
It has done heaps for the industry as a whole. It has made greedy transport companies make reasonable delivery targets for the empolyed truck drivers not ones only attainable by speeding. Hence lowering the drug taking problems that used to plauge the industry. (still occurs but not in huge numbers). Has also made the old habbit of 4 different sets of log books to keep yourself out of harms way should you get pulled up.
As has been stated already your driving would adjust to suit the limiters.
I for one am not overly phased about limiters, but the arguments your comming up with do not hold water.

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by Yaw

Fact: Even when overtaking speed limits must be observed, You CAN get booked for speeding then too!.
As for not doing anything to help trucks
It has done heaps for the industry as a whole. It has made greedy transport companies make reasonable delivery targets for the empolyed truck drivers not ones only attainable by speeding. Hence lowering the drug taking problems that used to plauge the industry. (still occurs but not in huge numbers). Has also made the old habbit of 4 different sets of log books to keep yourself out of harms way should you get pulled up.
As has been stated already your driving would adjust to suit the limiters.
I for one am not overly phased about limiters, but the arguments your comming up with do not hold water.

I'll debate this topic until I'm blue in the face!

IT's done nothing for lowering the speed of trucks, who are aggressive by nature due to their work pressures. The reality is that they do tailgate and do drive in the expresslanes. By mandating speed limits to within 3 km/h tolerance, your congesting traffic and making driving even more hazardous. There is no safety in the real-life scenarios I have described. That's what the law does for motorists when the issue all boils down to revenue. The agenda has nothing to do with people's safety on our roads.

[Woz]

I raise my hand to be abused here, but I'll do it to prove my point. Yes, I drive a V8.

I'll let that sink in for a bit.

...

Now, this 8 of mine is a 302 Cleveland. The setup is mild, but it's still a V8.

I have mates driving 94 Subaru wagons, 92 Nissan Pintara wagons, and 80-something Mitsubishi Colt hatchbacks who can keep up off the line. But it's still a V8, right?

Another thing I should mention is that my Clevo sits in a 75 XB Fairmont. My pride and joy.

I love my car. Ask any of my mates. It was parked beside the Murray River the other weekend, and I had a camera. So why not, I thought I'd take some more photos of it.

"You and your f*cken car, Woz!" One of my mates yelled at me as we all had a bit of a laugh.

I love my car, so I refuse to thrash it. It doesn't drag, it doesn't get sideways, it doesn't get airborn and it only very rarely does bangers. It's good fun to overtake in but that's about the only time I really give it a squirt. The speed doesn't pickup very quick, but it's great to listen to as the back drops and I jump lanes.

A lot of people ask me "should you be driving a V8?" Why not? It doesn't get treated like a high-powered car, yet it's a classic that's getting harder to find, and I wouldn't trade it for anything else.

I'm 19. I'm on P's. So what?

My old man tought me to drive in the country, in paddocks and on dirt roads, in falcons, 4WD's, and V8's. I haven't found anyone who has told me they are scared to get in the car with me, and I haven't had anyone tell me I'm a bad driver.

I'm just a kid who likes his Clevo.

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by Woz

I'm just a kid who likes his Clevo.

Mate, you almost made me cry reading your material.

Hats off to you mate! You've just got a special relationship with your vehicle and most of us could relate to that.

As I've said before, I've seen P-platers drinking grog in Hyundais...

[donno]

Originally Posted by Yaw

I for one am not overly phased about limiters, but the arguments your comming up with do not hold water.

That's a bit of the pot calling the kettle black!!

Your argument entails that by limiting to 120, you stop these retards winding out their cars. Only thing is you forgot the simple fact that they are retards. By going say 200, even 140, they are allready reckless, and are breaking the law. What makes you believe these idiots are going to comply with this new law?

They'll just over ride the limiter (like every single truck that has passed me doing 110+), and your problem is still there. Not only this, you risk other law abiding motorists lives. I'm only a P plater for petes sake, and even I have enough experience to see the problems with it.

Have you ever been in a situation where you thought you were in a perfectly safe overtaking situation, got halfway, and the conditions changed? Now you have two options:

a) Drop back behind
b) Flaw it to above the limit, and finish the manouver

What happens when a isn't an option? I'm bloody finicky when it comes to overtaking, I don't like anything in sight, so usually there is a car behind me by the time I get round to it, and when you start your manouver, they move closer so they can have a crack, blocking your braking escape.

Now out of the distance, blended into the road, from behind the sun, in the heat haze, out of an invisable dip, whatever, comes a car. You have no option a, and you hands are tied becuase of a stupid 120 limiter. The guy next to you probably hasn't noticed you overtaking and won't budge. Next thing you know, your staring down the barrel of a head on.

Now how on earth can you consider that irrelevant? It is simple logic. Also can you tell me you've never been caught off gaurd and had to exceed the posted limit to overtake? I frankly find that very hard to swallow.

We don't live in a perfect world. If we did, band aid solutions would work, and politicians would be renowned genious'.