Announcement - Page 5

**russellw** · 03-08-2007, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oneredED

Russell, that clears a few things up.

If I've interpreted this right;
- you are in discussions with SOME board members, and you are going to let us know of any outcomes as they happen?
- the club is now "owned" by FF.com.au
- any members who are currently banned from these forums can still be a member of the E-series club
- the board positions will be voted on by ALL members (even those unable to view this site)

Is this correct?

Just to ensure that there is no misunderstanding.

1. Yes we are in discussions with some of the Board and as soon as we achieve consensus with that group the entire membership will be advised.

2. The club is NOT owned by AFF.com.au - it is a registered entity in it's own right with a caretaker P/O pending finalisation of a formal structure. Nothing more sinsiter than that.

3. All but one (as I have stated in the other thread) will be allowed to participate here if they so wish and if they wish to participate in the elections (assuming they are held here and not elsewhere) they will need to apply to rejoin the forum.

4. They will need to be able to view this site to vote unless we find some mechanism (email for example) to allow them to vote although that is obviously open to potential abuse.

The whole topic may well be rhetorical should the existing informal board decide to remove the club association from this forum so perhaps we should all await a decision from that body before continuing to theorise further.

Regards
Russ

**russellw** · 03-08-2007, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pHaT`eL

Thats just dodgy. You said youve got the best interest in mind for the club, yet if we want to move it, you dont want anything to do with it.
Absolute crap!!

It is hardly dodgy. The suggestion from John to remove the club from this forum is expressing the desire to be independent of AFF and thus we would not have anything to do with it. I fail to actually see how logic would dictate otherwise?

We have been castigated by some in this thread (yourself included) for taking an involvement that was unwanted so to suggest that we should continue to be involved subsequent to the memebrs (or their informal representatives) deciding to move is to contradict that stated view.

Russ

TUFED6 · 03-08-2007, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by russellw

2. The club is NOT owned by AFF.com.au - it is a registered entity in it's own right with a caretaker P/O pending finalisation of a formal structure. Nothing more sinsiter than that.

Who is this public officer?

DJL351 · 03-08-2007, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TUFED6

Thats certainly an interesting opinion. I don't think anyone would deny that the club existed simply because it wasn't incorporated. The 'official' status that your logic is based on is fairly tenuous at best.

That's fine to say that right now, but what would happen should someone "sue" you as a result of an action through the "Club"?
Would the "Board" stand beside you then??

I'd think not.

EFFalcon · 03-08-2007, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by russellw

Sadly, mate, you actually can't make that decision as an individual.

Russ

Hence why i said "IMO"
mate

EFFalcon · 03-08-2007, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by russellw

It is hardly dodgy. The suggestion from John to remove the club from this forum is expressing the desire to be independent of AFF and thus we would not have anything to do with it. I fail to actually see how logic would dictate otherwise?

The suggestion was to get an idea of your involvement, how much say does the current board have in these matters, because the way it looks at the moment is that you'll go and do things you way anyway!

Can we vote for a new board on AFF, i'll step up to the position!

EFFalcon · 03-08-2007, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJL351

That's fine to say that right now, but what would happen should someone "sue" you as a result of an action through the "Club"?
Would the "Board" stand beside you then??

I'd think not.

So don't get sued...

DJL351 · 03-08-2007, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EFFalcon

So don't get sued...

Yeah, that's a great answer.

While I would never wish it on any person/club. It can and does happen.

I still say you are make a mountain out of a mole hill.

mcflux · 03-08-2007, 11:54 AM

DJL351 - what kind of situation do you have in mind where a clubmember would be in the position where they get sued for something and the rest of the club is able to successfully defend the sued individual?

TUFED6 · 03-08-2007, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJL351

Yeah, that's a great answer.

While I would never wish it on any person/club. It can and does happen.

I still say you are make a mountain out of a mole hill.

Simply being a club doesn't get you any protection from litigation. You still would need public liability insurance, which of course would need to be paid for by the members.

An unauthorized third party subverting the club's leadership by independently incorporating it is hardly a molehill.

Eb Barbie · 03-08-2007, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by russellw

It is hardly dodgy. The suggestion from John to remove the club from this forum is expressing the desire to be independent of AFF and thus we would not have anything to do with it. I fail to actually see how logic would dictate otherwise?

So your pretty much saying you and AFF want control over e-series and can't face the fact that members have formed an independant club outside AFF which might I say has taken off quite well IMO. Now that you guys have been losing control over e-series you buy the rights to try gain that back?
Correct me if I'm worng, but that's how it looks to me atm.

DJL351 · 03-08-2007, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghia5L

DJL351 - what kind of situation do you have in mind where a clubmember would be in the position where they get sued for something and the rest of the club is able to successfully defent the sued individual?

If a member of the public was to be injured by a club car, while on a club event, then there is an issue. (even parked in a carpark)

Now, I know your thinking... the drivers 3rd party etc will cover it.
Could do, but if they (the insurance company) find out you were party of a club/group, they can worm their way out of paying etc.

The FPV-Tickford Club of WA obtains a CAMS permit for every and any cruise/event we do/run.
Events we attend, such as the All Ford Day etc, are covered by their Public Liability Insurance.

pHaT`eL · 03-08-2007, 12:03 PM

Why would you need a cams permit to drive on the road?

EA2BA · 03-08-2007, 12:11 PM

This is what the club was working towards as written here:

http://www.deleted link/portal/magaz...y06/board.html

DJL351 · 03-08-2007, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TUFED6

Simply being a club doesn't get you any protection from litigation.

My point thank you for repeating it.
Being an Incorp is a big step to protecting the club and it's member base.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TUFED6

You still would need public liability insurance, which of course would need to be paid for by the members.

Correct, but a group of people (the way I see the E-Series club) would not be able to obtain that insurance.
An Incorp group, with a working constitution, can and will.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TUFED6

An unauthorized third party subverting the club's leadership by independently incorporating it is hardly a molehill.

Sorry, as I see it, the fact the current board had not already made these moves shows a complete lack of "leadership".
(and I'm sure there are a couple of people willing to take me on on that point alone)

The E-Series Club has been around for the same length of time as our club,
we've been an Icorp since early in our second year.

mcflux · 03-08-2007, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJL351

If a member of the public was to be injured by a club car, while on a club event, then there is an issue. (even parked in a carpark)

Now, I know your thinking... the drivers 3rd party etc will cover it.
Could do, but if they (the insurance company) find out you were party of a club/group, they can worm their way out of paying etc.

The FPV-Tickford Club of WA obtains a CAMS permit for every and any cruise/event we do/run.
Events we attend, such as the All Ford Day etc, are covered by their Public Liability Insurance.

So you're saying for something simple like a BBQ, if some nuffy kid on a bike rides into a parked "club" car & stacks, and we don't have CAMS approval for a BBQ, we're screwed with insurance/court?

Sounds pretty American to me.

EFFalcon · 03-08-2007, 12:17 PM

is our club the FPV Tickford club of WA?
no.

Do you have restrictions on membership?

**russellw** · 03-08-2007, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EFFalcon

The suggestion was to get an idea of your involvement, how much say does the current board have in these matters, because the way it looks at the moment is that you'll go and do things you way anyway!

Can we vote for a new board on AFF, i'll step up to the position!

Thanks for the kind offer John but the way AFF is incorporated has no provision for that to happen.

The current admin team have all been involved in these discussions throughout the entire process as have the moderators at various stages.

MY offer to you and your board in the board area has been made without the full consultation of my Board as they are not all presently available but I have exercised the authority they provide me as Chairman to do so.

Russ

DJL351 · 03-08-2007, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghia5L

So you're saying for something simple like a BBQ, if some nuffy kid on a bike rides into a parked "club" car & stacks, and we don't have CAMS approval for a BBQ, we're screwed with insurance/court?

Sounds pretty American to me.

Correct. We are even in the process of adding signs to the club trailer
to notify Joe Bloggs (general public) that the BBQ plate could be hot and not to touch.

Yes "American" it is, but it is unfortunately the way of the world.

DJL351 · 03-08-2007, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EFFalcon

is our club the FPV Tickford club of WA?
no.

Do you have restrictions on membership?

No, your not our club and we're not yours.... However the LAW see us all in the same light.

I fail to see what you're asking - re: restrictions on membership?
Yes, our members are restricted to vehicles defined in our constitution.

EFFalcon · 03-08-2007, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJL351

No, your not our club and we're not yours.... However the LAW see us all in the same light.

I fail to see what you're asking - re: restrictions on membership?
Yes, our members are restricted to vehicles defined in our constitution.

Theres the difference, we as a club have never had restrictions on who can join.

EFFalcon · 03-08-2007, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by russellw

The current admin team have all been involved in these discussions throughout the entire process as have the moderators at various stages.
Russ

Perhaps we wouldn't be in this situation if you consulted with board members and said 'We are going to register your club, this is the plan'... AFF moderators = bias towards AFF... fancy that.

DJL351 · 03-08-2007, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EFFalcon

Theres the difference, we as a club have never had restrictions on who can join.

But where and how does this effect the the club becoming an Incorp?
In creating the constitution, the committee/board & members would/could allow membership however they want.

**Polyal** · 03-08-2007, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EFFalcon

Perhaps we wouldn't be in this situation if you consulted with board members and said 'We are going to register your club, this is the plan'... AFF moderators = bias towards AFF... fancy that.

OK so obviously we are going in circles here. Hopefully details can be sorted ASAP. I guess AFF could have said nothing, and waited until they did have more details but then people would kick up a fuss anyway.

Perhaps suggestions from yourself and other disgruntled members would help? Or is it a case of too far gone and you want to leave?

Leave the political mumbo jumbo and perhaps getting to the point is best as this thread will never end.

Bucknaked · 03-08-2007, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EFFalcon

AFF moderators = bias towards AFF... fancy that.

Every mod?

EFFalcon · 03-08-2007, 01:03 PM

more so then the rest of the eseries board would have been!

bomber · 03-08-2007, 01:07 PM

AFF should never of taken this step it was not their club to register this club as stated before no doubt AFF was hosting forums for the club out of good will and how the club grows is really none of their business maybe in the best interest but they shouldn't have a say in taking it this direction. I think they have ruined the E-series Owners club atmosphear all for their own power and glory this is a complete dog act and makes AFF look like total . I can understand that they needed to moderate these forums as they need to protect the over all Forums but doing this the members involded are complete **** *****!!

My 2c FTW

Bucknaked · 03-08-2007, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EFFalcon

more so then the rest of the eseries board would have been!

Nice. So it's guilty by association.

EFFalcon · 03-08-2007, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

Perhaps suggestions from yourself and other disgruntled members would help? Or is it a case of too far gone and you want to leave?

My suggestions were to put the board 100% in contorl of the Eseries members, not part E-series part AFF, even if i'm not on the board.

or not register it at all.

EFFalcon · 03-08-2007, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bucknaked

Nice. So it's guilty by association.

Thats how AFF admin think so yes.
I'm Admin on another forum where members have been bad mouthing AFF, i wasnt partaking in that bad mouthing, but being guilty by association my moderator status was removed.
why should it be any different for the rest?

I've got no problems with 99% of the people on this site, but an AFF Moderators is going to be bias towards the club staying on AFF more then someone not in that position.
It was more aimed at the Eseries mods then anyone else.