5 young men killed in high speed crash.

[Spanrz]

Slightly off topic, but still has me wondering on a very related matter.

Any of you who travel outbound on the Monash, would see massive black skid marks along the way, not just from trucks either.

Something about these skid marks, that I can't understand :
They seem to start from the left lane of a 4 lane Freeway and they head at a 45 degree angle to the road, across 4 lanes and hit the rope barrier.
And always take out atleast 4 posts of the barrier.

Now how in the bloody hell, do you "skid" with all wheels locked, at a 45 degree angle, across a 4 lane freeway and still manage to take out the rope barrier.
Not to mention taking anyone else in the process.
There is atleast 1 crash/skid a week in the area from Warragul Road to Forster Road.

The only thing I can mention, that it's hoons dragging around and loose control of the car after drag.

All I can say, is thank christ, they put those barriers in, as the speed that these cars had, would have carried them into the other side of the freeway endangering other innocent lives.
Next time you drive it, count how many bingles hit the barrier with big skids.
Funny how they don't glance the barrier either, just weird.

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by Sizey

FULL NOISE - Although I kind of agree with you about that stature of driver, don't believe everything on the news....tends to be a touch embellished.

True, however, I think that in this case, this clown and his mates and brothers have left themselves wide open. The media could have used “normal” pics, but when they have these to choose from, they’d be crazy not to.

I have enormous sympathy for the families and friends of these people, but I’m sure that many of them know deep down that it was only a matter of time before something like this would happen.

[Bucknaked]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

6 people, only 5 seat belts & 140km/h!!! How can anyone be so dumb? I'm glad the driver is died as he murdered 4 people & is worthless in my book (his a murder & should be treat as such). I feel sorry for the 4 other people & their families... So sad, so sad.

And the passengers could have just said no. Too many people not enough seat belts. I wouldn't put the blame squarely on the driver. All parties in that car made poor decision and as pointed out, no-one knows what happened for sure inside that car that lead to this. All we know is the result.

Think about your statement on the driver deserving to die. Would you say the same thing had this been your son, father, brother, uncle or best mate? No-one deserves to die for poor decisions. Even those that result in the deaths of others that you are responsible for. It was a car accident. It's unfortunate, but you and I aren't the ones left to pick up the peices. A lot of shattered lives here. So should we really pass judgement without knowing the facts?

[[Tonko]]

Originally Posted by US kills Falcon

That doesn't work and I know from experience. A mate used to drive even more insanely if we complained about his driving because he thought we were all chicken. That behaviour fortunately stopped after he almost killed six of us when he hit a parked car playing chicken. Now he drives like a nanny. Some people have to learn the hard way.

In my experience, It is the opposite.

If your insane mate was so bad, why would you get back in his car?

[CAMS290]

Unfortunately situations like this will keep happening no matter how many police resources are out there visible on the road, no matter how many TAC ads are screened on tv, no matter how many speed/red light cameras are installed.

It is about youth, mostly male that think they are ten feet tall and bullet proof, I was a youth once and I drove at speeds like that once, but I got away with it and only god knows how.

Maturity brings responsibility, and I look back on what I got away with, and I curse the idiot P plater that goes flying past me well over the speed limit, but guess what ? I was like him over 20 years ago, and I bet a large majority of the people on here have been guilty of the same.

I don't know what the answer is, we keep asking ourselves every time a tragedy like this happens.

[Nikked]

Media reports it as a 'High powered' sedan as if that's to blame. I also believe that car was unregistered.

Not to get on my moral horse (we have all done silly stuff)... But stupid kids,160km on a main road with two lanes over taking at 160km/h, thats not even poor driving or lack of education, its just plain stupidity. I don't think even seenind pictures of minced up people in crashed cars could stop some of these kids these days.

I feel sorry for the parents of the driver, their son responsible for 4 deaths.

[Airmon]

Originally Posted by CAMS290

Unfortunately situations like this will keep happening no matter how many police resources are out there visible on the road, no matter how many TAC ads are screened on tv, no matter how many speed/red light cameras are installed.

It is about youth, mostly male that think they are ten feet tall and bullet proof, I was a youth once and I drove at speeds like that once, but I got away with it and only god knows how.

Maturity brings responsibility, and I look back on what I got away with, and I curse the idiot P plater that goes flying past me well over the speed limit, but guess what ? I was like him over 20 years ago, and I bet a large majority of the people on here have been guilty of the same.

I don't know what the answer is, we keep asking ourselves every time a tragedy like this happens.

Too true. No matter what you do, people will always have stupid moments where they do stupid things, sometimes you'll be right and sometimes you wont.
A young group of blokes will find a way to do something stupid in anything, from a 190kw XR6 to a 40kw Corolla.

[4Vman]

Nobody is pointing fingers at the car... every news item ive seen puts the blame fairly and squarely on the driving act....

[GTP-03]

The thing is that all of us have sped at one time or another, I mean lets face it if youve got a lot of power under your right foot you are going to use it even if it is for a brief amount of time, fortunatly most of us do it up to a certain point and back off, then you get the handfull of drivers that just go that little bit further, because its a good rush and they want to impress there mates and frighten there girl friends, and ultimatley it can end in tradegy, just like this accident.

[Melz]

I don't think this particular incident has much to do with the power of the car... you can still do 160km in a camry (just takes a bit longer to get there).
Its a young bloke who was inexperienced, foolish, distracted and naive... The government can implement all the restrictions they want but scenes like this won't stop.

Driver education may be an answer... but nothing is a better lesson than life... unfortunately these people never got that 2nd chance to learn....

[Kil4Collingwood]

dont know if its been mentioned, but where this act of stupidity occured if it werent for the tree, the car in all probability would haved plowed straight through someones house.

Those speeds on a road like that (or any other public road)...........words cant describe and I'm no angel behind the wheel myself.

I suppose you can't put an old head on young shoulders.

[4Vman]

I don't believe for 1 second that these guys weren't fully aware of the potential outcomes of a big shunt... they just didnt believe it would happen to them.
"Educating" them wont make any difference if they don't believe they'll make a mistake....

[Stattic]

what i want to know is how somebody hits a curb driving on a straight stretch of road. the news tonight mentioned they were heading back from a party and had been seen driving erratically.. whats to bet alcohol and/or drugs were involved? i just cant believe the absolute stupidity and i was horrified when i saw the car, that is one mangled piece of late model machinery

[TUF_302]

Its such a shame when so many young lives get taken in such a way, the sad thing is, this sort of thing will keep happening no matter what the Police/Government try to do, there will always be idiots on our roads who end up crashing and taking there mates with them, the power of the car isn't the problem, its the person driving, they could have done the same thing in a camry or volvo, most cars can reach speeds that will kill, only way to try and stop it happening again is education, make young people realise how dangerous speeding really is!

[Stattic]

Originally Posted by Airmon

Too true. No matter what you do, people will always have stupid moments where they do stupid things, sometimes you'll be right and sometimes you wont.
A young group of blokes will find a way to do something stupid in anything, from a 190kw XR6 to a 40kw Corolla.

and its the 40kw corollas that are the most dangerous... they are light, cheap and small, people buy them to do stupid things and have no regard for the car as they are worth so little and often crash them forgetting that they can get hurt themselves
my best mate rolled a ke70 corolla 4 times off a ledge and come out with cuts and bruises. did he learn? no, hes on his 3rd corolla

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

I don't believe for 1 second that these guys weren't fully aware of the potential outcomes of a big shunt... they just didnt believe it would happen to them.
"Educating" them wont make any difference if they don't believe they'll make a mistake....

Yeah agree with that. But I also agree that education is actually the answer as its the only thing we can really control.

Must admit my wife just said this but as an example drink driving used to be the norm, but now its to the point where your outcasted for doing so (well within all the circles I know anyway).

It takes time, and in the above case I guess decades, but as everyone has said no law would have stopped that.

[BENT_8]

Wow, what a waste of life!

Im going to refrain from writing 3 or 4 paragraphs about driver education, speed cameras, police presence or any of the other things that could have prevented this.
The truth is it was always going to happen.

If you take a cross section of all youth there will be a % that WILL die in MVA.
Sure all the things above may reduce the %, but thats all. People with this drivers mindset are beyond help.

For me, im taking a positive from it.
I regularly talk to my young bloke about how to conduct yourself whilst behind the wheel, he's 11 now.
Its instances like this that allow me to sit him down and show him what im talking about.
He just sat through the News report and shook his head at the images.
He didnt have to say a word, the look on his face and sadness in his eyes left me with no doubt that he understands.

[Tornado]

From: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/fiv...-1225820452302

Deputy Commissioner Ken Lay said the car had been seen travelling through Ivanhoe at up to150kmh, with occupants including Steven's half brother hanging out the side windows for thrills.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

For me, im taking a positive from it.
I regularly talk to my young bloke about how to conduct yourself whilst behind the wheel, he's 11 now.
Its instances like this that allow me to sit him down and show him what im talking about.
He just sat through the News report and shook his head at the images.
He didnt have to say a word, the look on his face and sadness in his eyes left me with no doubt that he understands.

And that's exactly what good parenting is all about, bringing your kids up from an early age to have a strong understanding of wrong and right, being able to know what good driving is all about...
I can't help but feel there are a couple of parents grieving right now but also feeling a sense of guilt that they failed their kids....
As a parent i cant begin to imaging what that feels like, nobody deserves to die like this, nobody deserves to have to deal with this....

Love and look after your children, family and friends, this is real.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Also.. 2 separate P platers were booked doing 170 in an 80 zone on burwood hwy last night... 1 of them, who only just got his license laughed at police...

No it was 1 P plater and another unlicensed driver.

So far the arguments in this thread have said:

- car restrictions don't work
- education won't work
- Its down to driver stupidity

How do we solve that one? Stop people with an IQ lower than a certain number from breeding?

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

And that's exactly what good parenting is all about, bringing your kids up from an early age to have a strong understanding of wrong and right, being able to know what good driving is all about...
I can't help but feel there are a couple of parents grieving right now but also feeling a sense of guilt that they failed their kids....
As a parent i cant begin to imaging what that feels like, nobody deserves to die like this, nobody deserves to have to deal with this....

Love and look after your children, family and friends, this is real.

Thats the way im tackling it Norm, theres no way i want to leave it to his teachers, driving instructor or a Police Officer, i want him and his younger siblings to learn it from me...Their father.
From that base, whatever they get taught in addition is a bonus, but im not taking any chances.
I cant control what someone elses child does, but im damned if im going to sit by and let my young'n become part of this.

[SM1DY]

Originally Posted by XCPWSF

So far the arguments in this thread have said:

- education won't work

I still think that in school education is the best step, the masses are all ready gathered and it's easy to get large groups together and educate them all at once.

It's easy to say that something is futile and a waste of time, but unless you take a shot, then your not going to make any progress.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by SM1DY

I still think that in school education is the best step, the masses are all ready gathered and it's easy to get large groups together and educate them all at once.

It's easy to say that something is futile and a waste of time, but unless you take a shot, then your not going to make any progress.

No single initiative will work in isolation... education is fine but its already happening, you also cant educate unintelligent people who dont care, its like trying to convince a Ford fanatic Holden is better....

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by SM1DY

I still think that in school education is the best step, the masses are all ready gathered and it's easy to get large groups together and educate them all at once.

It's easy to say that something is futile and a waste of time, but unless you take a shot, then your not going to make any progress.

They took a shot at my school and failed badly.

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by SM1DY

I still think that in school education is the best step, the masses are all ready gathered and it's easy to get large groups together and educate them all at once.

It's easy to say that something is futile and a waste of time, but unless you take a shot, then your not going to make any progress.

How do you educate someone with a head thicker than a lump of bluestone?

As others here have already pointed out. There’s some people that you just can’t get through to.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

I don't believe for 1 second that these guys weren't fully aware of the potential outcomes of a big shunt... they just didnt believe it would happen to them.
"Educating" them wont make any difference if they don't believe they'll make a mistake....

Exactly. And because of this thought pattern incidents like this will continue to happen for ever. No amount of warnings, education, TAC ads, P Plate restrictions, vehicle power limits or hundreds of millions of dollars spent will make an iota of difference.

Thus, we have to accept these incidents (it's not an accident) will happen on a semi frequent basis.

[davocol]

Subsidized cabs on Friday and Saturday nights for under 21s would be a good start to get some cars off the road, I know when I was that age the cost of getting taxis was out of reach and driving a car was a cheaper alternative, once your in that car with drunken people you are normally egged on and do stupid things.

Most of these accidents tend to happen between 1-3 am in the morning on Friday and Saturday nights, from my experience the chances of seeing a police radar or even a TOG car at this time is very rare, this need to be addressed.

Again there is no simple answer and I think in this case unless caught this particular group of people were destined to crash at some point.

[rodderz]

My theory is that it's not just driver behaviour in general that needs to be changed, it's their everyday behaviour too. There are plenty of crap drivers around, but are smart, so they don't drive like idiots.

Think of the idiots you put up with at work or in life in general. The ones that think they are always right, the king of the castle or those that reckon they can do anything. Now put them behind a wheel of a car- will they be any different? Most times not. It seems most of the drivers involved in crashes are too confidant, or ignore any threats that are right before them.

Behaviour of people as a whole needs to be changed, not just for driving but everything else as well.

[chrisfpv]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

I don't believe for 1 second that these guys weren't fully aware of the potential outcomes of a big shunt... they just didnt believe it would happen to them.
"Educating" them wont make any difference if they don't believe they'll make a mistake....

One of those "it won't happen to me things".

There are some people that will never learn, or listen for that matter. They think they are unbreakable and all these car crashes we see on the news will never happen to them.

It comes down to driver stupidity. The driver of the car is a complete moron. Period. I do feel for his family though, and the families of the passengers but the driver in my opinion deserves no sympathy. Simply a hoon who thought he new everything.

Now this isn't to say that he is totally to blame here, as being a P plater myself i've been in cars where the driver thinks he is god and you'd be suprised how much influence the passengers can have on the driver. Especially coming back from a party and having a good time as what seems to have been the case here.

But even with peer pressure, you're not a loser if you say no!

[g220ba]

Originally Posted by TVS Super Pursuit

Thus, we have to accept these incidents (it's not an accident) will happen on a semi frequent basis.

Just to clarify that statement for everyone an accident implies nobody is at fault. In every single incident somebody has always been at fault in some way.