Dangerous Dogs in Victoria

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

and for what it is worth. if anyone here owns a pit bull and a child puts their hand or face close to the fence and gets attacked, then it is the child's fault. blame the parents for not educating their child.

Agree with near everything you say, though not the above.

It shouldnt be possible for a child to be walking along the foot path, put their hand through someone's front fence and get their hand bitten off. Either the fence is completely impenetrable or there are two fences with a setback between that makes it impossilbe for this to occur, just as occurs in zoos.

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by sudszy

Agree with near everything you say, though not the above.

It shouldnt be possible for a child to be walking along the foot path, put their hand through someone's front fence and get their hand bitten off. Either the fence is completely impenetrable or there are two fences with a setback between that makes it impossilbe for this to occur, just as occurs in zoos.

i really meant that the kids should not penetrate the fence themselves. if a kid is teasing a dog and then falls into their yard or puts their hand or other body part through the fence then it is not the dog's or owners fault. for sure the dog should not be able to stick it's head outside the fence. however, a child should not get so close as to allow a paw to pull the child back into the danger zone


i was taught to stay away from strange dogs and (although off topic here) to look both ways before crossing a road. unfortunately not all kids are taught enough about staying out of trouble - and that in my opinion is the parents fault, not the dog owners fault

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

i really meant that the kids should not penetrate the fence themselves. if a kid is teasing a dog and then falls into their yard or puts their hand or other body part through the fence then it is not the dog's or owners fault. for sure the dog should not be able to stick it's head outside the fence. however, a child should not get so close as to allow a paw to pull the child back into the danger zone


i was taught to stay away from strange dogs and (although off topic here) to look both ways before crossing a road. unfortunately not all kids are taught enough about staying out of trouble - and that in my opinion is the parents fault, not the dog owners fault

As I stated, I disagree-you are falling for a little of the AWPB's owner trait of blaming the victim, if its a dog that can rip a human to shreds the fence shouldnt be able to be penetrated, especially by a child just sticking their arm through it.

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by sudszy

Agree with near everything you say, though not the above.

It shouldnt be possible for a child to be walking along the foot path, put their hand through someone's front fence and get their hand bitten off. Either the fence is completely impenetrable or there are two fences with a setback between that makes it impossilbe for this to occur, just as occurs in zoos.

Or parents take some responsibility for their children perhaps? If your child is sticking it's hand into someone else's yard...what are you doing? Why is it always down to the owner of the yard to ensure that your kid can't do anything stupid...and where does your responsibility lie...

This is where the concept of 'social responsibility' comes in to play from both parties - it's all well and good to suggest that people who own dogs are responsible, but you have just as much responsibility to ensure your kids are safe. I keep my dogs in my yard, the public can keep their kids out of my yard - end of story.

Neither of my dogs can get to the front yard, as I know the kids walking past all the time shouting and yelling would just excite my dogs to a point where they would want to get out - not to attack...to PLAY.

I'm in agreeance with gtxb67, if the dogs attack is unprovoked, then by all means...but I will add it shouldn't just apply to pit bulls, but all dogs, rat dogs, medium dogs, large dogs and giant dogs. ALL of them have a potential to cause damage.

Why is it so hard for both parties to take some responsibility...?

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by Sezzy

I'm in agreeance with gtxb67, if the dogs attack is unprovoked, then by all means...but I will add it shouldn't just apply to pit bulls, but all dogs, rat dogs, medium dogs, large dogs and giant dogs. ALL of them have a potential to cause damage.

i did suggest any dog that attacked - although it may not seem the case, i am torn between banning pitbulls and not banning them. probably on the side of not banning them . . . . although i do agree with what i understand the new rules to be
as stated, 2 of my friends have owned them and changed my totally ignorant mind on them over 15 years ago. they can be beautiful dogs (and generally are). having said that, i would never own one and do not trust them - maybe through unfounded fear, but the lack of trust is still there. i guess that is almost solely because the owners cannot be trusted. although even someone trying to be responsible can have their dog get out as well . . . and sometimes it only take one time out of the yard




and sudzsy i understand where you are coming from, but both sides need to be take responsibility for their actions. if walking past a property with a potentially vicious dog, you generally always get plenty of warning. it creates both a dumb and dangerous world when there stops being consequences for dumb actions. the accidents do not go away, they just happen in different ways. not respecting a dog behind a fence, is like walking in long grass in summer, or swimming in the ocean and wondering why a snake or shark got you. we all need to respect a domestic/wild animal's space and leave them alone. if we go into their area, we must accept the consequences

[BFZF8]

Originally Posted by sudszy

why is at good question/post?

Why? do you think that the only people that should have a say in whether pitbulls are allowed in society are the people that own them or the people that have been attacked by them?

Let's draw a parallel, laws for automatic weapons? only those that own the weapons and those that have received a fatal gunshot should be listened to? Wonder how the vote would end up there of course the rest of us in society just have no idea.

For the record, Ive had two family dogs killed when they were attacked on lead by staffordshire terriers that tore out from their owner's properties, both times the person walking the dog was under 10 and understandingly was severely traumatised.

The question was a good one because everyone seems to know someone who's been mauled by a pit bull but when you ask for specifics they're thin on the ground. The main reasons for this are (a) they didn't happen or (b) it wasn't a pit bull. Take a look at the link kinksta put up and be honest. You didn't pick it did you?

On your second point, I believe you agreed with me earlier that no dog should be off lead in public so I'm not sure what response you're expecting from me. And what actually happened? In your earlier post the dogs were being exercised off lead and now they've torn out of the owner's property.

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by Sezzy

I keep my dogs in my yard, the public can keep their kids out of my yard - end of story.

Nope, learning to live with dangerous dogs isnt something we should have to consider in suburbia nor is blaming the victim an option. dog owners have a responsibility to make sure their dog stays in their yard and also that you make it impossible for children that dont know any better to deliberately or accidentally to penetrate the enclosure. yeh just like a pool fence. even an adult could trip on the sidewalk and end up putting their hand through the pickets in a fence etc. Yep its no different to how enclosures work in public places such as zoos.
Tis good you see the sense in not having your pets bordering the sidewalk.

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by BFZF8

And what actually happened? In your earlier post the dogs were being exercised off lead and now they've torn out of the owner's property.

who said they were the same dogs and same people, an assumption on your part.

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by sudszy

og owners have a responsibility to make sure their dog stays in their yard and also that you make it impossible for children that dont know any better to deliberately or accidentally to penetrate the enclosure. yeh just like a pool fence. even an adult could trip on the sidewalk and end up putting their hand through the pickets in a fence etc.

does that mean that parents do not have a responsibility to make sure their kids know better . . . . or heaven forbid, watch their children until they do. while the gate should not be easy to open, kids should not try and open it. there is a big difference between a pool and a dog. the pool doesn't bark, growl and snarl, and show it's teeth. it is human nature to be wary of a dog, not water, until you know what it is


and for the record (at the risk of annoying many people here), i hate dogs. i think eradicating the world of them would be great. no more barking through the night, no more whimpering during the day - but they are here, and because of that, i have to be responsible around them and teach any kids that i am nurturing to be responsible and respectful around them too

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by BFZF8

Take a look at the link kinksta put up and be honest. You didn't pick it did you?
.

Nope, buts thats where the law has been smart, so it doesnt have to deal with all this nonsense about pure breds/crosses and the like. There will have a list of characteristics that define AWPB and if the dog ticks enough boxes(as Im sure every dog in those pics would) then they'll be deemed to be a potential dangerous dog

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by sudszy

Nope, learning to live with dangerous dogs isnt something we should have to consider in suburbia nor is blaming the victim an option. dog owners have a responsibility to make sure their dog stays in their yard and also that you make it impossible for children that dont know any better to deliberately or accidentally to penetrate the enclosure. yeh just like a pool fence. even an adult could trip on the sidewalk and end up putting their hand through the pickets in a fence etc. Yep its no different to how enclosures work in public places such as zoos.
Tis good you see the sense in not having your pets bordering the sidewalk.

It's not about 'seeing sense' - that's the social responsibility I was talking about. It's also council bylaw up here (or so I'm led to believe), you must allow access for meter reading etc. and it must be unobstructed.

I think you're clutching at straws with the picket fence idea though...I'm small, and I couldn't fit my hand between a picket fence if I tried, nor could most ten year olds I know...

My main goal is not for the public's safety - it's for my dogs...because I know that there are people out there that believe (just like you seem to) it's my responsibility to make sure they can't act stupidly. I know my dog will be held accountable, regardless of some idiot doing something stupid (child or otherwise), and I'm not prepared to lose my family (yes, my dogs are my kids) because of someone else's actions.

Keeping my dog safe is at the forefront of my mind, because I know that if the day comes when (god forbid) someone comes into my home uninvited, my neighbours won't be the one's coming to my defence; my dog will...

If you'd seen half the things that I've seen working inside a vet clinic, and being affiliated with rescue groups, seeing the abuse cases that come through the door, at the hands of humans - who should know better, you'd understand where I'm coming from and why my belief system works the way it does.

I take responsibility for my 'kids' because I know that there are people out there that 'choose' not to take responsibility of their kids (real or fur) or their own actions for that matter, and they're the ones that make it hard for people like me owning 'bull breeds'. Whether you want to believe it or not.

[BFZF8]

Originally Posted by sudszy

who said they were the same dogs and same people, an assumption on your part.

You must have some unbelievably bad luck. Do you still let small kids walk your dogs? Not blaming you for the incidents but it's not a great idea either.

My dogs are never off lead in public and are under an adult's control at all times. I'm obviously in the minority in those regards however because going by what I see almost nightly, what people mean by "taking the dog for a walk" is "taking the dog to a public park and letting the dog run around on its own while I have a smoke".

I can't control what other people do with their dogs but I can control what I do with my own. If everybody took dog training, exercising and containment as seriously as I do there wouldn't be a problem. It's probably what I'm most passionate about if you couldn't already tell...

[BFZF8]

Originally Posted by sudszy

Nope, buts thats where the law has been smart, so it doesnt have to deal with all this nonsense about pure breds/crosses and the like. There will have a list of characteristics that define AWPB and if the dog ticks enough boxes(as Im sure every dog in those pics would) then they'll be deemed to be a potential dangerous dog

Haha! Never mind the minor detail that they're completely different breeds with different purposes, traits and temperaments. Who has the time to get things right after all?!

[Geez Louise]

Ok. Some people need to back away from the keyboard and stop intensionally trying to start a debate!!

It is great people have different views and I can appreciate where both sides of the arguement - For and Against - are coming from and I have found the views expressed in this thread great to read....but perhaps the topic has run it's course.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Geez Louise

Ok. Some people need to back away from the keyboard and stop intensionally trying to start a debate!!

It is great people have different views and I can appreciate where both sides of the arguement - For and Against - are coming from and I have found the views expressed in this thread great to read....but perhaps the topic has run it's course.

Yep.

Game over.