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OzECruisers General Discussions E/N/D vehicles General Discussion ONLY. NO TECH THREADS

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Old 07-07-2006, 01:56 PM   #121
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djmaker, let me give you some advice. the police officer has to show you on his radar the terminal speed that you were clocked at. remember innocent until proven guilty ??? if he did not show you this reading i am sure that you would have asked to see it to make sure he wasnt pulling one over you.
if he has no evidence of your speed the judge will(or should do) and can then ask the officer how far he had travelled and the time you were then observed for so that someone can work out your speed. spring this one on them in court and they will and for a recess very quickly to consider their position. any good lawyer should be a walk up start for a case like this !!!
in my opinion the original speed will stick and if the judge can see your being honest about what you were really doing not someone's word you SHOULD beat this.
regs and all the best
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Old 07-07-2006, 03:17 PM   #122
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3 questions:
1: did he issue you a ticket on the spot?
2: what speed does the ticket say you were doing?
3: did YOU PERSONALLY see what speed the radar gun said?
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Old 08-07-2006, 01:30 AM   #123
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once again thank you to all the people that are trying to help and not just try and flame me.... for your questions...

1) No a ticket was not issued on the spot only a inpound notice
2) There was no ticket but the inpound notice says excess of 45km + dangerous driving
3) Yes i asked the officer if i could see the radar reading which he had no problems with this was about 45min after being pulled over and it read 127km.
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Old 08-07-2006, 01:42 AM   #124
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You see every week either a drug dealer or rapist get away scot free!
I just hope that the courts don't use you as an example for others just to set precedents for future hoons
Think yourself lucky in 5 years time the new prisions should be build, just wait and see how many get jail-time lucky you weren't dion 150!
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Old 08-07-2006, 01:47 AM   #125
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yeah one of the solicitors was telling me that at the frankstons magistrate they have already put 2 people in jail but he said it was a worse offence then what your being charged for he was just stating that the magistrate are getting much tuffer on speeding and the public is loving it. as for the herald sun i drive a eb xr8 so i dont know if it was my car in the paper as i didnt see it any idears the date of the paper so i can have a look online.

also a question seeing i am yet to recieve a summons or any sort of fine am i able to go and get my motorbike licence as if the magistrate does side with the cop and i lose my licence for 12months i will at least have some form of transport to get from work and what not.

Thanx
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Old 08-07-2006, 01:58 AM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djmaker
yeah one of the solicitors was telling me that at the frankstons magistrate they have already put 2 people in jail but he said it was a worse offence then what your being charged for he was just stating that the magistrate are getting much tuffer on speeding and the public is loving it. as for the herald sun i drive a eb xr8 so i dont know if it was my car in the paper as i didnt see it any idears the date of the paper so i can have a look online.

also a question seeing i am yet to recieve a summons or any sort of fine am i able to go and get my motorbike licence as if the magistrate does side with the cop and i lose my licence for 12months i will at least have some form of transport to get from work and what not.

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Old 08-07-2006, 02:02 AM   #127
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thanx mate..
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Old 08-07-2006, 03:22 AM   #128
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in WA it is not that bad. Even on P plates u can doo the posted speed limit, but on L's its max 100.

Wouldn't having slower p platers in fast traffic just cause more problems.

I got done for 80 in a sixty cos thats wot i admitted to but realy it was thirty k's more than that 1 day before my p's finnished (i know "im an idiot").

No radar readout u see.

N e way i was lucky .
$150 thats enough to teach me a lesson.
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Old 08-07-2006, 04:03 AM   #129
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What a thread.
I just have a question.
You admitted to travelling at 130kmh, was this the highest speed you reached during this particular journey?
If you sincerely believe it was then seek legal advice.
As for the no radar reading = no proof.
The Police are able to estimate your speed in the situation where they are following due to the possible inaccuracy of the radar reading. If the 127 shown on the radar was taken when they were catching up with you it would be significantly understated meaning you were travelling at a much higher speed. Remember it is a radar gun.
The estimate of speed "is" admissible in court but as it is not an exact figure the court may be lenient to a degree. The Police know the rules and will be full bottle on the court's procedures and possible lines of questioning.
Very important not to perjure yourself in court so be honest. The Police also know the ramifications of committing perjury so don' put much faith in statements like "they are just trying to make an example of you". Having said that it is possible, just don't pin your hopes on it.

As I said, if you are absolutely sure (it must come across this way in court as well) that you were not doing 150kmh then fight it. But I would say if they clocked you from behind at 127 as they were catching you, you were travelling a fair bit faster than that.
Obvious lesson is don't speed but you know that now don't you?
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Old 08-07-2006, 06:16 AM   #130
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as i have said i have learnt my lesson and if i had just been given a fine for doing 127km i would have learnt my lesson as well... the radar reading was done from a stationary position... which also brings me to the point of if the officer was stationary and i go past him doing 127km it would of taken him a fair distance to catch up to me but then he states i was doing 150km for 1km in which then i noticed him and pulled over to the shoulder.... now this still puzzles me so if im apparently doing 150km for 1km and him saying he could get a proper reading how far behind me should he have been because when i saw him behind me he was a good 2car lengths behind... it just really makes no sens to me.
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Old 08-07-2006, 06:19 AM   #131
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bike,truck and car carry the same points, so if you lose one license you forfeit the others too.. well in Qld anyways
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Old 08-07-2006, 06:59 AM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racecraft
bike,truck and car carry the same points, so if you lose one license you forfeit the others too.. well in Qld anyways

Same as Victoria i believe.
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Old 08-07-2006, 07:02 AM   #133
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hmmm if thats true thats my idear out the window :S....
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Old 08-07-2006, 09:38 AM   #134
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Does anyone have a link to the hooning legislation, under what act the police can using hooninh laws not that link that everyone is using.. In hte local paper there was a print out of the hooning law and there was a big loop hole in hte system just wondering if they fixed it up if anyone can get there hands on the act send me a link i wanna read it. Sorry to hear what happened mate i hope all works out in your favoure, cops are all the same there all corrupt *******
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Old 08-07-2006, 10:31 AM   #135
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Big loop whole is register your car in your parents business, lease your car to yourself, or even hire your car to yourself
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Old 08-07-2006, 11:53 AM   #136
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http://www.justice.vic.gov.au/CA256E...ving+FAQs~&3=~
Thats the link for the hoon laws...

Did you go to the cop shop to find out what's going to happen with this? That sucks that you've got done for more than you deserved mate.
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Old 08-07-2006, 12:01 PM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djmaker
as i have said i have learnt my lesson and if i had just been given a fine for doing 127km i would have learnt my lesson as well... the radar reading was done from a stationary position... which also brings me to the point of if the officer was stationary and i go past him doing 127km it would of taken him a fair distance to catch up to me but then he states i was doing 150km for 1km in which then i noticed him and pulled over to the shoulder.... now this still puzzles me so if im apparently doing 150km for 1km and him saying he could get a proper reading how far behind me should he have been because when i saw him behind me he was a good 2car lengths behind... it just really makes no sens to me.
If they were stationary then the reading should be correct.
Did you see them as you passed them?
If so how far from that position were you pulled over?
If you know work out the average speed for the distance of your car.
Just a thought.
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Old 08-07-2006, 12:13 PM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djmaker
now this still puzzles me so if im apparently doing 150km for 1km and him saying he could get a proper reading how far behind me should he have been because when i saw him behind me he was a good 2car lengths behind... it just really makes no sens to me.
It's easy enough for him to follow you at any distance and be able to estimate your speed to within a few kilometres. All he has to do is maintain the distance between your car and his car. Easy enough to do by picking a stationary object and counting the seconds after you've passed and he's passed. Or even easier just looking at his own speedo.
Velocity(average) = Distance/Time. Simple Physics.
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Old 08-07-2006, 12:32 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STOKEB
cops are all the same there all corrupt *******
That's a bit of an extremist comment. Could compare that to someone else saying that ALL E series owners are trouble makers (Which is clearly NOT the case!!!!) Be aware that cop bashing for the sake of cop bashing will NOT be tolerated on AFF.

Before anyone asks - NO I AM NOT A COP!! or a relative of a cop. I am someone that believes that there's a lot of people out there that sees every one of them as the enemy.

djmaker - The police do seem to have a pretty good case against you. They have a radar reading locked in and recorded at 127km/h. The original booking officer has a speed estimate of 150km/h, allegedly obtained whilst following you for a 1km period. If he was following you for a sustained period of time at a higher speed, it is questionable why he did not simply retrigger the radar and get stronger supportive evidance. However an estimate is still admissable evidence.
As the officer alledged that he was following you for a 1km period and you did not notice him (you made no mention of pulling over as soon as you saw him), combined with the fact you were driving at a high speed (in an agitated state)after having held your P's for such a short period of time. It can be argued that you were driving in a manner dangerous.
Regardless of whether it was 127, or 150, when combined with a dangerous driving charge, it would appear that you have commited an offense under the anti-hoon legislation. A fact that would have to have been agreed to by a senior officer elsewhere (This addresses the rogue cop with a grudge against a particular driver argument)
The following will also be considered hoon-related offences if they are committed in circumstances involving the improper use of a motor vehicle:
dangerous driving;
careless driving;
failure to have proper control of the vehicle; and
causing the vehicle to make excessive noise or smoke.
*Dangerous driving whilst speeding(improper use of a vehicle)*

For what it's worth - do yourself a favour & seek legal advice on how to approach things. As there was no on the spot fine issued - you will be going to court over this issue.
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Old 08-07-2006, 12:53 PM   #140
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Under law you can request that the rader gun to be check in as evidence as well as the calibration log book.
1) it takes the gun off the road
2) the guns are required to be serviced and calibrated monthly, Fair chance it was not, giving you some leverage to argue over.
+ if it is a gun mounted in the car it has to be removed.
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Old 08-07-2006, 01:02 PM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunns
Under law you can request that the rader gun to be check in as evidence as well as the calibration log book.
1) it takes the gun off the road
2) the guns are required to be serviced and calibrated monthly, Fair chance it was not, giving you some leverage to argue over.
+ if it is a gun mounted in the car it has to be removed.
So contest any speeding fine, Summons the radar gun to be logged as evedence, continuly adjurn your court case. Pay fine just before court date. Good way to keep a gun off the roads for a while ;)
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Old 08-07-2006, 03:30 PM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkinshaw
So contest any speeding fine, Summons the radar gun to be logged as evedence, continuly adjurn your court case. Pay fine just before court date. Good way to keep a gun off the roads for a while ;)
That works apart from one small little detail. Once you have elected to have the matter heard in court, that's it, there's no turning back, you HAVE to turn up in front of the magistrate. You are not able to simple pay the fine once you decide to have it heard in court.
It is a whole lot easier to accept the on the spot fine, pay it and have the incident in the past rather then stewing over things for several months before turning up in court - possibly facing a much larger penalty. Put the whole episode down to a learning experience, and accept that there's times that you've gotten away with things that you shouldn't have.
How many people that are saying take it to court & fight it have actually BEEN there? or fought it successfully? There'll be a few guys, but I'm willing to bet that most of the ones saying fight it, have never been before a magistrate and seem to think that going to court is a trivial, day to day event.
Though I am proabably getting a bit off topic....
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Old 08-07-2006, 03:42 PM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wulos
How many people that are saying take it to court & fight it have actually BEEN there? or fought it successfully? There'll be a few guys, but I'm willing to bet that most of the ones saying fight it, have never been before a magistrate and seem to think that going to court is a trivial, day to day event.
This is true
I fought a copper in court years ago, I was automaticly guilty in the eyes of the prosicuting copper, and the only thing that saved my bacon was the copper that booked me had slightly changed his course of events as he remembered them.
It was also a very expensive day, would of been cheaper to pay the fine.
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Old 08-07-2006, 08:06 PM   #144
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You are mistaken there Wulos, driving at 27km over does not equate to a dangerous driving charge.
If the officer says he was swerving and driving in a generally dangerous manner then sure, but speed alone wont make that charge stick.

The circumstances in which the officer came to the conclusion that he was doing 150kmh is the part that is suspicious and any lawyer will poke holes through it easily.

Youre not wrong in recomending to speak toa lawyer though. Although legal aid will be completely useless.




Quote:
Originally Posted by wulos
That's a bit of an extremist comment. Could compare that to someone else saying that ALL E series owners are trouble makers (Which is clearly NOT the case!!!!) Be aware that cop bashing for the sake of cop bashing will NOT be tolerated on AFF.

Before anyone asks - NO I AM NOT A COP!! or a relative of a cop. I am someone that believes that there's a lot of people out there that sees every one of them as the enemy.

djmaker - The police do seem to have a pretty good case against you. They have a radar reading locked in and recorded at 127km/h. The original booking officer has a speed estimate of 150km/h, allegedly obtained whilst following you for a 1km period. If he was following you for a sustained period of time at a higher speed, it is questionable why he did not simply retrigger the radar and get stronger supportive evidance. However an estimate is still admissable evidence.
As the officer alledged that he was following you for a 1km period and you did not notice him (you made no mention of pulling over as soon as you saw him), combined with the fact you were driving at a high speed (in an agitated state)after having held your P's for such a short period of time. It can be argued that you were driving in a manner dangerous.
Regardless of whether it was 127, or 150, when combined with a dangerous driving charge, it would appear that you have commited an offense under the anti-hoon legislation. A fact that would have to have been agreed to by a senior officer elsewhere (This addresses the rogue cop with a grudge against a particular driver argument)
The following will also be considered hoon-related offences if they are committed in circumstances involving the improper use of a motor vehicle:
dangerous driving;
careless driving;
failure to have proper control of the vehicle; and
causing the vehicle to make excessive noise or smoke.
*Dangerous driving whilst speeding(improper use of a vehicle)*

For what it's worth - do yourself a favour & seek legal advice on how to approach things. As there was no on the spot fine issued - you will be going to court over this issue.
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Old 08-07-2006, 10:48 PM   #145
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T Terror - I didn't say that a speeding fine for traveling at 127km/h by itself was a breach of the hoon legislation. (traveling above 150km/h is mentioned specifically in the legislation)
I quoted the specific part of the legislation - it reads:
"The following will also be considered hoon-related offences if they are committed in circumstances involving the improper use of a motor vehicle:
dangerous driving."
Speeding is considered improper use of a vehicle, and when combined with a dangerous driving charge (as listed on the impoundment notice - from djmaker) it is within the scope of the anti - hooning laws.
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Old 08-07-2006, 11:26 PM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STOKEB
Does anyone have a link to the hooning legislation, under what act the police can using hooninh laws not that link that everyone is using.. In hte local paper there was a print out of the hooning law and there was a big loop hole in hte system just wondering if they fixed it up if anyone can get there hands on the act send me a link i wanna read it. Sorry to hear what happened mate i hope all works out in your favoure, cops are all the same there all corrupt *******
yeah there was an article in the leader dont no wat page
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Old 08-07-2006, 11:31 PM   #147
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im sorry 2 hear that as im just an l plater but im going 2 have to say calm n not test da car out the only thing a p plater can do now is cruse n drive smothly well this thread has showed me now is it realy worth speedin
maby they will open a raceway for hoonin around
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Old 09-07-2006, 11:55 AM   #148
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God a long thread backing up someone who was obviously way over the limit...

There is NO WAY in a court that the cop could say "he was doing 150 but I got him at 127". Why the heck wouldn't he have measured it at the claimed 150? That wont stand up.

And police can measure you speed while driving, even the opposite direction, I got done but got out of it (119 in a 100 zone) Out near Bachass Marsh (sp?), at night, with the police coming the opposite direction.

I appoligised and because of my record he let me go. (which is wierd cos I had 3 minor speeding fines in my first year on my P's, apparently not on the system anymore..woot!)

Your in Franga so while it shoudln't matter, it wont help, and 1 month on ya P's is not good.

So suck it up, its just going to be a lesson learnt, we have all most likely done it, the difference now is that the laws are much harsher; but there are more boneheads out there so thats life.
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Old 09-07-2006, 01:07 PM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dommuz
im sorry 2 hear that as im just an l plater but im going 2 have to say calm n not test da car out the only thing a p plater can do now is cruse n drive smothly well this thread has showed me now is it realy worth speedin
maby they will open a raceway for hoonin around
Are L/P platers getting thicker or is it just me???
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r L n P pltrs getn thikr or iz it jst meż
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Old 09-07-2006, 02:34 PM   #150
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Some great spelling and grammar in here

It was bad enough to be speeding 20km's over but these "figures" of higher speeding than you were actually doing is quite common, just that others have accepted it and moved on.

The radar guns are supposed to be calibrated every so often (but does this happen? Not as much as you'd think).

Double standards ring a bell. If people actually take a look at some of the tyres & especially rear suspension height on TMU Commodore's you'd find the walking stick probably would not slide under, thus being unroadworthy? Surely not, a police car?

Talk to legal aid mate, they might not be a lawyer but they can give you some great advice about the protocols and what to do to help you with your case, just be confident but be honest and explain what impact losing your licence for 12 months will do and the stresses caused by losing your car for 48 hours when you are not a hoon.

Speeding & hoon are two different things, I really doubt these new laws will reduce the road toll either, the only reason the road toll is somewhat lower then last year is because not as many people are driving as much as they used to given the current fuel prices, that said there have been 2 fatals in VIC in the last week, one in Cheltenham.

Did senior officers attend the scene when you were pulled over, was it divisional or traffic units that pulled you over initially?

Oh and for the last two weekends since July 1st, numerous TMU Region 1 vehicles have been concentrating on the Chapel street / Prahran precinct, targetting the usual behaviour there but this time armed with new powers.

The first car to be done for "hoon" laws was a Tiger Mica VT II SS in Dandenong for doing a burnout IIRC.
__________________
Regards
Bobby

Current Cars:
2000 AU2 Fairmont (2019-current)
2003 BA1 Falcon Divvy Van (2017-current)
2009 VW Mk6 Golf 118TSi (2020-current)
Previous Cars:
2003 MCX10R Avalon VXi (2017-2020)
1995 EF1 Falcon GLi (2016-2019)
1997 XH2 Falcon Van OPT20 (2016-2019)
2006 BF Fairlane Ghia (2013-2018)
2001 AU3 Futura (2010-2013)
1996 EL Fairmont (2008-2010)
2004 BA XR6 (2005-2008)
2001 AU2 Forte (2005-2006)
1988 EA Fairmont Ghia (2003-2005)
1984 AR Telstar TX5 Ghia (2001-2005)
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