driving lights = 3points

[Smoke Pursuit]

wheres the button in a T3 T350?



P.s the T2 cars didnt even have lights in the bumper?

[burnz]

that looks like a povo pack, where's the climate contol not a/c
maybe the swith is on the door side

[russellw]

Originally Posted by bfiipursuit

P.s the T2 cars didnt even have lights in the bumper?

Sorry but the T2 TS50 did - in Series 1 & 2 neither of the TE50's had them.
Indeed the brochure scan I used above was from a T2 TS50.

The TE50 picture you posted doesn't appear to have a button and the response I get from a T3 owner is that the T3 lamps do come on with the high beam lights thus making it the only model AU that was the case for (as indicated above). Notwithstanding that, they are still described by Ford as Fog Lamps and thus would qualify even though they are acting as driving lamps. Would make an interesting roadside debate with a member of the constabulary.

Russ

[GT]

Originally Posted by russellw

The TE50 picture you posted doesn't appear to have a button and the response I get from a T3 owner is that the T3 lamps do come on with the high beam lights thus making it the only model AU that was the case for (as indicated above).

I always understood that this was because these cars got the XR dash unlike the previous FTE models (more cost cutting) which of course did not have a button as there were no fog lamps in the XRs. They then had a problem as the front bar had fog lamps - problem was solved by wiring them to the high beam, eliminating the need for the button. Bit average really when you understand the reasons for that move.

Cheers
GT

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by low au classic

next time you drive at nite do me a favour count the cars with there driving lights its almost every third car

Exactly, and if EVERY car had them on we'd have double the amount of lights coming at us!!

As someone who drives every weeknight on country roads the amount of people who have their LAME (Look At Me) lights on gets bloody annoying after a few hours driving.

School holidays are worse, loaded up with the family and associated luggage means all the lights are looking for possums and I have twice the light to try to look through!

[73 4V XB]

after skimming through the post which ive only first seen tonight. didnt see any thing about motobikes using hi beem during the day???? i hate the use of fog (YELLOW LENSE), driving lights at any time unless it is called for. the thing ive seen with driving, fog lights is ppl put change the globes put 60 or even 100 helogens in them and thats not legal. i have 65/100 h for head lights and 100 h in (so what are they called next to the head light) driving lights and have never been flashed to dip my lights. the purpose of lights in the front bar is to light the area in front of the car. so when your driving at 60 kph, or more as they do, by the time you see the light show an object on the road its under your car (and i hope its tearing out your under carridge)
head lights work fine with out the need for low down driving lights. as far as cops go if their breakig their own law they can not (if your strong and stand your ground) give you a ticket. if they do, take it to court if you can afford it and fight for your rights as a motorist who obeys the road laws. you probley have a camera on your mob so use it.this is only my 2 bobs worth make of it what you like.
)

[Pinch]

A special shout out to the rear fog light in clear conditions bandits. "Duuuhhh, wonder what that button does????" Excel drivers, yes damn it I am looking at you! Hyundai, you take a hit too. Every rear fog light equipped car I have owned (quite a few actually - generally a good safety feature too when used correctly) has had fog lights default "off" every time the car is turned off. Result, they HAVE to be turned on each time. Excels never did though, although my J2 (99) Lantra beeped until you unpressed the switch. Excel rear fogs are still freakin on 15 years later...

[dallasv8]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

Exactly, and if EVERY car had them on we'd have double the amount of lights coming at us!!

As someone who drives every weeknight on country roads the amount of people who have their LAME (Look At Me) lights on gets bloody annoying after a few hours driving.

School holidays are worse, loaded up with the family and associated luggage means all the lights are looking for possums and I have twice the light to try to look through!

well said mate

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by xtremerus

Keepleft
As you seem to be up to date with the NSW traffic law, is it illegal to drive in daylight and clear weather with low beam headlights on?

No.

This seems to me to be the same as daylight driving with 'Fog' lights on.

It's not, the two beams are drastically different.

Can you be booked for headlights on now?

For the second time, no! (In relation to low-beam, hi-beam use will gain you a demerit, if not dipped as required).

Originally Posted by JAYMZ

With my FG, i have the lights set on automatic. Therefore when it gets dark my lights turn on with the lights in the spoiler.

(note: i didn't refer to them as driving lights or fog lights as now this thread has made me more confused and i could be criticised)

Its the way Ford have set it up so not my fault if they don't like it.

LAMP COMPLIANCE CODE - If the lower lamps bear say 'front fog' markings vis; letter "B" near the E mark (eg; '02B'), (or code for driving lamp) then we have an issue.

If the car were to be found out so FED Trade Compliance would issue a recall.

Does it have the front fog ISO symbol switch anywhere? Flick it to OFF and report.

Originally Posted by 500SEC

SNIP, agreed. What exactly do white fog lights do anyway?? In France, they're tinted yellow because oncoming traffic is more easily able to distinguish yellow light from white light, during foggy conditions. Makes sense to me, but you rarely see yellow fog lights in Australia.

The old national French regs for both headlights and front fogs had mandatory yellow. This changed some years ago and France is harmonised with EU Transport Division and UNECE regs on the matter, and so now appear white-optic on all fronts. Selective yellow remains optional for front fogs worldwide.

Originally Posted by xtremerus

So on a clear day, I can drive with low beam headlights, but will get the full force of the law on me, SNIP

You can use your low-beam headlamps during the day in clear weather conditions. It is law, when in daytime, that if weather is poor and reduces visibility, then your low-beam headlights *must* be on, OR you may optionally run with the front fog lights on,- with just the cars park (sidelights on). Latter technique improves the front indicator visibility to other traffic.

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Mate, half the cop cars I see have them on.

Fully siiic police eh?!:-) QLD will adopt the update ARR 217.

Originally Posted by SNBXR

What are the laws in Canberra? you people all got me paranoid, i have had my 4 lights running since i got them never had a problem....

Australian Road Rules.

Originally Posted by turbo4me

I don't drive with mine on unless i am in a club convoy because most motorists will not pull out of side streets ....etc when they see you all together. I personally cannot remember being dazzled by driving lights but i am dazzled all the time by SUVs. In my opinion it is just another revenue gathering exercise.

Okay so you drive with your front fog lights ablaze when in a club convoy. Okay, if in clear weather - then a fine and demerit can apply. "Driving lights" are NOT 'front fog lamps", read earlier posts.

Originally Posted by DJM83

Ive seen numerous HWP Avalons with them on during the day time in clear conditions.

More fully siiiic QLD police. QLD will update to the latest ARR 217.

Originally Posted by ghezzi
I've only read pg 1 of this post. My question is, how can a state govt legislate against using lights during day light hours, when ADR's (fed govt) legislate that all bikes be hard wired? ie. headlights cannot be turned off.

Originally Posted by vztrt

Its not the headlights but the Fog or driving lights (ones on the bottom of cars).

Yes, but again, front fog lamps are NOT driving lamps.

Originally Posted by 05MkIIFutura

SNIP - It is better turn lights on to be seen on the road, I have no problems with driving lights.

Front fog lights are NOT 'driving lamps'.

Originally Posted by 05MkIIFutura

Used to be driving lamps until 6 months into prod they implemented the change in all Fairmonts and Fairlanes during their next service, and all new cars configured as turning lights.

Apprently they didnt meet ADR's due to some issue with measurement/power

1. They were never 'driving lamps' (didn't meet that criteria at all) and were supplied originally with Hella COOL BLUE 5watt wedge bulbs.

2. They were illegal, primarily owing "grouping-of-lamps'. The car as released basically had a set of four front park lights.

The Feds, rightly took action, some idiot staffer screwed up. They were sold as 'Decorative Lamps', but sadly - no 'decorative lamp' ADR was found! The lamps were modified to Cornering lamp function. See Post 141, almost has it right except for 'wattage':-)

Originally Posted by russellw

The TE50 picture you posted doesn't appear to have a button and the response I get from a T3 owner is that the T3 lamps do come on with the high beam lights thus making it the only model AU that was the case for (as indicated above). Notwithstanding that, they are still described by Ford as Fog Lamps and thus would qualify even though they are acting as driving lamps. Would make an interesting roadside debate with a member of the constabulary.
Russ

If the T3 lower lamps are a dedicated driving lamp, AND ONLY activate when the cars regular high-beam is ON, then we have no problem at law . .

SINCE-

the driver would, we hope, dip his or her T3's high-beam on approach to other traffic in the normal manner:-) (and so the lower lamps would extinguish).

Another way, insofar determining a particular lamps complianced function, is to look at those E Marks; IF a complianced front fog, the letter "B" will be seen near the E Mark, eg; "02B".

If a driving lamp (used to supplement the cars regular high-beams), the lamp will bear near the E Mark the designation "R", eg; "HR" (halogen driving lamp), or HR-P (halogen driving lamp - plastic lens).

Thanks for posting the pics - reckon you should make this a sticky?? Or shall we persevere each year as new models enter the market?

[platinumXR]

...I need a Bex and a lie down... :

[Falcon Coupe]

Originally Posted by Keepleft

Front fog lights are NOT 'driving lamps'.

There you go, may not have to say it again until tomorrow now...

[Kingsley]

Fog lamps are the most useless item fitted to my Falcon. Refuse to use them. I don't see the point of them since at best they only light up around two metres of road directly in front of me. Useless at 60+kph on country roads.
I also don't get the dude in the BA XR6 I pass every morning at 5am on said country road who refuses to use headlights, just the foggies. Must be a treat to try and guess what's up the road without the aid of proper lighting, let alone no high beam when the opportunity arises.
Quick question. How many of you who do use foggies for safety reasons, turn on the headlights for the same safety reasons when the car doesn't have foggies fitted?

[davez104]

Keepleft, You'll drive yourself to drink trying to explain the differences between driving and fog lights on here. I've tried in the past in previous threads only to feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall. Actually I'm surprised the thread is still going, is laminge not on the forum any more?? They used to get shut down pretty quickly.

All those who read here now know that the law states they cannot run in clear weather with their fag lights, sorry, fog lights, switched on. So I guess they'll just suck it up when they get fined for it, and won't come on here to have a whinge about how unfair it is.


Keep up the good work keepleft, you make me smile.

Cheers,
Dave.

[JAYMZ]

Originally Posted by Keepleft

LAMP COMPLIANCE CODE - If the lower lamps bear say 'front fog' markings vis; letter "B" near the E mark (eg; '02B'), (or code for driving lamp) then we have an issue.

If the car were to be found out so FED Trade Compliance would issue a recall.

Does it have the front fog ISO symbol switch anywhere? Flick it to OFF and report.

Yea found out how to fix it now there is another switch next to the main lights, just got the car few weeks back, ive never had fog lights before, let alone automatic lights.

Must have been the way Ford set it up before giving it to me.

But, the fog lights can come on with the auto setup, so seems quite strange that it is allowed to set this way if it is illegal.

JAYMZ

[davez104]

If the fog light switch is on, they will come on any time the parkers or main beam lights are on, regardless of auto or manual activation. Ford will test your fog lights as part of any service and sometimes don't switch them off. I once drove 100kms with the fog lights on after getting my car back from a service. Someone should slap me up.

Cheers,
Dave.

[Spitfire 6.2]

Drivers using fog lights in clear conditions which apparently dazzles other road users is a petty issue when compared to the growing amount of moronic driving on public roads these days. Its the frequency of drivers who fail to indicate, wont keep left unless overtaking, tailgate, speed through school zones, etc etc etc (the list is endless), that completely amazes me. The amount of arrogance, ignorance and just plain old stupidity out there is astounding, we all see it, it happens all the time. All of which is not only illegal but its all much more dangerous than a few fog lights on here and there (those drivers who at night use fog lights as headlights with only their parkers on belong back in the moron category). Ive seen thousands of cars with fog lights on and never once been dazzled by them, day or night. Yeah I know, its illegal, but its probably the least serious driving offence anyone could comit IMO. :ticking:

[deesun]

Originally Posted by davez104

Keepleft, You'll drive yourself to drink trying to explain the differences between driving and fog lights on here. I've tried in the past in previous threads only to feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall. Actually I'm surprised the thread is still going, is laminge not on the forum any more?? They used to get shut down pretty quickly.

All those who read here now know that the law states they cannot run in clear weather with their fag lights, sorry, fog lights, switched on. So I guess they'll just suck it up when they get fined for it, and won't come on here to have a whinge about how unfair it is.


Keep up the good work keepleft, you make me smile.

Cheers,
Dave.

Yes I agree fully and also that now we have pics that represent 99.9% of cars fag lights we really should turn it into a sticky.
PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZE MINGE. PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZE.
All in favour say PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZE MINGE.

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by JAYMZ

Yea found out how to fix it now there is another switch next to the main lights, just got the car few weeks back, ive never had fog lights before, let alone automatic lights.

Must have been the way Ford set it up before giving it to me.

But, the fog lights can come on with the auto setup, so seems quite strange that it is allowed to set this way if it is illegal.JAYMZ

Front fogs should not operate if its switch is set to OFF regardless of the auto lights feature.

TEST
Switch say your 'parkers' (or low-beam headlights) ON, then ensure the front fog switch is OFF (pilot light should extinguish - it is a GREEN colour on all cars except some of those made in AUS). Third step, switch off your parkers or low-beam headlights.

Auto lights feature should not then activate the front fogs.

* If the front fog switch is left on, and the headlights off, once auto-lights kick in, in some cases - the front fog then operates till its switch is set to off.


COBRA - Read other posts, otherwise we go round and round. . .

[EgoFG]

There are other things to this law that extend beyond simply getting rid of the unnecessary glare from the vanity lights.

One of the better things about this law is that it is
- an easily enforceable law, that
- encourages people to be aware of their surroundings.

Speed limits do not do that, they encourage you to watch your speedo, and look for signs and cameras.

I am in favour of the enforcement of any law that encourages people to
1) be aware that there is an oncoming car (dip your lights, extinguish you foggies).
2) Be aware of the driving circumstance (is it foggy? can I see? can others see me? do I need them on ? )

[localboy]

Ive just brought a 06 xr6 ute that has a second pair of lights ie(fog/driving lights)they must be there for a reason SAFETY simple you got'em use'm remember at the end of the day you are looking after number 1 (you) and every1 else on the road is a menice you see them they see you dada

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by localboy

Ive just brought a 06 xr6 ute that has a second pair of lights ie(fog/driving lights)they must be there for a reason SAFETY simple you got'em use'm remember at the end of the day you are looking after number 1 (you) and every1 else on the road is a menice you see them they see you dada

Hmm yes but it if its illegal where do u stand??

Im all for use of foglamps 24/7 as they are only 55 watt and low positioned, they are actually less dazzling then headlamps but sadly the law is just that, the law and we have to abide by it...

[localboy]

Originally Posted by bfiipursuit

Hmm yes but it if its illegal where do u stand??

Im all for use of foglamps 24/7 as they are only 55 watt and low positioned, they are actually less dazzling then headlamps but sadly the law is just that, the law and we have to abide by it...

Dont get me wrong regaurding the law they are there for a reason and I dont mean to post it as menice but it like saying we have speed limits yet every car can break them in all i guess its up to each individual if you use,em or not my 2 bob thanks

[Falcon Coupe]

Originally Posted by localboy

Dont get me wrong regaurding the law they are there for a reason and I dont mean to post it as menice but it like saying we have speed limits yet every car can break them in all i guess its up to each individual if you use,em or not my 2 bob thanks

Being law it's not up to the individual, stating you intend to break the law adds nothing to the discussion.

[davez104]

Originally Posted by localboy

Ive just brought a 06 xr6 ute that has a second pair of lights ie(fog/driving lights)they must be there for a reason SAFETY simple you got'em use'm remember at the end of the day you are looking after number 1 (you) and every1 else on the road is a menice you see them they see you dada

Are you serious? Thats like saying my car has an accelerator and 260kw for a reason. Got em, use em, who cares what the law is or why it's there. I'm sure that would go down well.

Oncoming cars will see you just as well with just your low beam shining.

I hope they start handing these tickets out hand over fist. They'll quite happily give you one for doing 10 or 15 over on a straight, perfect piece of road with minimal traffic, I don't see why this should be any different.

Dave.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by localboy

SAFETY simple you got'em use'm remember at the end of the day you are looking after number 1 (you) and every1 else on the road is a menice you see them they see you dada

Yep. Good move. Doesn't matter if they dazzle oncoming traffic -especially in the wet- and they crash-maybe into you- Your Ok!

Originally Posted by bfiipursuit

Im all for use of foglamps 24/7 as they are only 55 watt and low positioned,

ONLY 55w?
The Truck I drive has 55w Headlights, Spotlights and Foglights!

[kyro_02]

driving the ol ravvy 4 in the day, good ol sunny day drive and pulled up behind a car and ohsnap, the foglights are on... i would not have know otherwise, and don't remember ever turning them on!!

so can you get fined for having fog lights on, in the day? cos it's not the 'right' conditions to have them on , on in the first place?

edit: i refuse to read 8 pages of stuff to get my answer! :P

[mrbaxr6t]

people on here have talked of "dazzle" and "reflection" ok heres one for you driving an XF utility lights on LOW beam on a wet road, AND my headlights are flickering through the trees either side of my car, this means my LOW BEAMS are reflecting off the wet road surface! who woulda thought it huh, are you suggesting I drive at night with no headlights on at all so others will not be dazzled by my low beams?

Sorry but whining about reflections in wet conditions is crap honestly, whats next ban the sun when its just finished raining because it reflects off the puddles? Driving in wet conditions is going to cause reflections off wet surfaces. Thats just the way it is, legislating against lights because of reflections is stupid as hopefully this post has illustrated.

<<edit>> I am aware its not JUST reflections that has lead to this.

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by kyro_02

driving the ol ravvy 4 in the day, good ol sunny day drive and pulled up behind a car and ohsnap, the foglights are on... i would not have know otherwise, and don't remember ever turning them on!!

so can you get fined for having fog lights on, in the day? cos it's not the 'right' conditions to have them on , on in the first place?

edit: i refuse to read 8 pages of stuff to get my answer! :P

Lazy bugger, its not that hard.

The answer is yes.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by mrbaxr6t

people on here have talked of "dazzle" and "reflection" ok heres one for you driving an XF utility lights on LOW beam on a wet road, AND my headlights are flickering through the trees either side of my car, this means my LOW BEAMS are reflecting off the wet road surface! who woulda thought it huh, are you suggesting I drive at night with no headlights on at all so others will not be dazzled by my low beams?

Sorry but whining about reflections in wet conditions is crap honestly, whats next ban the sun when its just finished raining because it reflects off the puddles? Driving in wet conditions is going to cause reflections off wet surfaces. Thats just the way it is, legislating against lights because of reflections is stupid as hopefully this post has illustrated.

<<edit>> I am aware its not JUST reflections that has lead to this.

Right... low beam AND LAME lights means four sets of reflections instead of two.

Try driving with that for 10+ hrs at night and see what your eyes feel like.

[2.8L Hilux]

Originally Posted by Keepleft

There is NO 16watt bulb, your Ford-modded lamp, if you went down that path; - should bear a 21watt bulb.

It IS a 16 watt bulb, not sure what 21watt bulb you are talking about.