Australian Motoring Enthusiast Party / Lobby Group

[wrongwaynorris]

Originally Posted by Cuyper

Well one of the most intelligent Australians had his name down for the senate and almost no bastard voted for him, so don't complain

Who would that be Cuyper ?

Stirling Griff got 20% plus of the vote and was still edged out by these morons on 0.2% and 0.5% due to totally morally bankrupt back room preference deals , Imagine the Greens preferencing the No Carbon Tax Climate Sceptics !!! Well it happened .

[Nikked]

Average Joe gets elected into the senate, all of a sudden, typical parliamentary types feel threatened.

[GT-spec15]

Average Joe gets elected to the Senate, all of a sudden 99% of the country wonders how the hell that can happen!

I don't want key pieces of legislation being scrutinised by a poo-throwing 4wd owner. I'm sure he's probably a good bloke, but that isn't the point here. Someone who can only manage to pull 0.5% of the vote should not be a Senator.

[wookie836]

no one seems to whine when members of the bigger parties are elected into the senate this way, the second a unknown is, all hell breaks loose

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by GT-spec15

Average Joe gets elected to the Senate, all of a sudden 99% of the country wonders how the hell that can happen!

I don't want key pieces of legislation being scrutinised by a poo-throwing 4wd owner. I'm sure he's probably a good bloke, but that isn't the point here. Someone who can only manage to pull 0.5% of the vote should not be a Senator.

So someone who got elected shouldn't be in parliament?


Didn't Tony Abbott admit to smoking marijuana at one stage?


Not everyone is perfect, and democracy allows everyone to have a voice. Lets not forget that Muir will have a team to advise him and guide him through the way. There is nothing wrong with a different point of view in the parliament.


If he stay's smart, keeps his head in, then Australian Motoring Enthusiasts have a genuine voice, jezuss I thought that's what we all want.

[Road Games]

I have nothing to respond with without getting banned.. so i will will just go about doing what i do, saving most from reckless persecution as best i can and just read about the losers who didn't have a say, posting on here about their lack of action..

cheers..

[wookie836]

sometimes it looks like everyones giving in to their fear, this guy could one day be the next pm, no one here is omnipotent and not one of you can see into the future. it just looks like youre giving into the sensationalism and hatred the media are trying to stir up. wouldnt it be fair and reasonable to give this guy a chance and actually wait until he puts a foot wrong and then form a opinion about him?
AMEP is in a difficult situation here, theyve pulled off something that no body thought was possible, ricky was probably in the first committee meeting for that state and was one of the few people there who actually put their hands up for anything. AMEPs stance from the outset was to not play these media games and give comment to the crap the media and everyone else are going to throw at them, but the way it looks here from some of the comments [assuming that the people here are a large diverse group from all walks of life] this guys not gonna get a chance to do anything right as hes already been assumed to be incapable of operating in a senate.

[GT-spec15]

Originally Posted by Nikked

So someone who got elected shouldn't be in parliament?.

I never suggested that - AMEP worked the system and good luck to them.

I do however believe reform is needed moving forward. This forum is somewhat biased being a community of car enthusiasts, but I can tell you everyone else is scratching their head and wondering how the hell this could happen.

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by wrongwaynorris

Imagine the Greens preferencing the No Carbon Tax Climate Sceptics !!! Well it happened .

Except it didn't. Sure, they weren't last, but the only parties The Greens preferenced behind the climate skeptics where I voted were One Nation, Rise Up Australia, Citizens Electoral Council, Outdoor recreation party (Stop the Greens), and the Australian Christian Party.

Can only talk for the electorate in which I voted, but the Greens preference flow looked to be more or less in keeping with their agenda. Labour were a fair way down the list though I'll admit.

[timeout]

Enjoy your ability to vote, unlike other places in the world that are less civilised.


Some people forgetting what democracy means.

[JC]

Originally Posted by timeout

Enjoy your ability to vote, unlike other places in the world that are less civilised.


Some people forgetting what democracy means.

But part of voting is knowing who your vote goes to, and the way it is at the moment, it may end up where you least expect it. Not really democracy then, is it?

[GT-spec15]

Originally Posted by JC

But part of voting is knowing who your vote goes to, and the way it is at the moment, it may end up where you least expect it. Not really democracy then, is it?

Nail, head.

[karj]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

Except it didn't. Sure, they weren't last, but the only parties The Greens preferenced behind the climate skeptics where I voted were One Nation, Rise Up Australia, Citizens Electoral Council, Outdoor recreation party (Stop the Greens), and the Australian Christian Party.

Can only talk for the electorate in which I voted, but the Greens preference flow looked to be more or less in keeping with their agenda. Labour were a fair way down the list though I'll admit.

From memory, Wrongwaynorris is correct about what happened in the SA senate election. The Greens were aware that Xenophon was likely to get votes in surplus to the required quota and his surplus votes would be directed to his running mate (Stirling Griff). If preferences from other parties then flowed to Griff, it would have possibly resulted in the Nick Xenophon Group picking up 2 senate quotas (meaning 1 less senate position that the Greens could compete for). With Hanson Young struggling to get re-elected, they didn't want to risk her bid for re-election... so they preferenced Xenophon in a respectable position (because they knew he would get enough votes to be re-elected anyway)... but then preferenced his running mate miles down the ballot so that preferences didn't flow to him in order to keep the senate position in play.

It meant that the Greens preferenced the Climate Skeptics ahead of Xenophon's running mate in SA (Xenophon's running mate believes in climate change). It was an interesting strategic decision by a party that supposedly prides itself on ideology.

So it's not just the micro-parties that are screwing with and manipulating preferences. It's just more justification for electoral reform.

Of course, we wouldn't even be having this discussion if people took responsibility for their own vote, decided their own preferences and voted beneath the line.

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by karj

Of course, we wouldn't even be having this discussion if people took responsibility for their own vote, decided their own preferences and voted beneath the line.

Nail, head.

[GQ_Smooth]

Originally Posted by wrongwaynorris

Not everyone is complaining , pretty much it is me . Call me silly but I care enough for this country and its future to not want to see a highly specific single interest party and a representative so monumentaly out of his depth elected to essentially the second highest office in the land . As an M.L.C. he will be sitting in the house of review on a lot of other vastly more important potential legislation than motoring matters . I also have grave reservations with an organisation that would endorse someone they have never met and patently obviously never vetted . What was their criteria ? Are you warm and breathing ? Were you sitting around one night ****ed as a newt saying to your mates “ I reackon I could be one of them there senators “ It’s not like this clown just joined the party he was then endorsed by them to stand for the Senate .
As for enthusiasts getting heard , the general Camry / Hyundai driving population will now judge all motoring enthusiasts by this clown ( and believe me the tawdry media posing as journalists such as A Current Affair , Today Tonight to cite just 2 prime examples will make damn sure of it ) and subsequently we will ALL be judged by his standard and that will be enough for 99% of the community to write motoring enthusiasts off as bogan idiots . This will set the motoring enthusiasts cause back not promote it . Sure the Libs will court his vote on critical “ to the countries “ legislation by offering him tidbits in return but make the most of it as at the end of his 6 year term he will be pitched out on his ear along with any incremental gains he may get and probably , more likely than not a more draconian system will take their place . Just remember NOONE likes negotiating with a gun to their head and the major parties will bury guys like this in a heartbeat when they are no longer needed . They also do not appreciate anyone who uses Glen Drury as a consultant or whatever he calls himself these days .
There is an old saying that you catch more flies with honey than vinegar so the way to actually achieve things would be via an educated , articulate , urbane , pragmatic lobbyist / senator who has an understanding of how the system works . Long before anything goes to a vote in the senate the back room deals are done and the experienced career politicians will make mincemeat of this guy and his political masters in the party .
This is nothing to do with the tall poppy syndrome as this guy has not achieved anything by dint of his hard work , intelligence , witts , persistence , rat cunning or any other mode , he lucked in due to a stupid system that is open to ( largely thanks to the aforementioned Glen Drury who hawks his services to people to show them how ) exploitation via preference flows .
I am “ not willing to have a go “ as you put it because I believe this country has infinitely greater problems facing it than the relatively petty gripes that will occupy this clown and his parties minds and I do NOT treat the Senate as a bit of a joke after a session on the **** by attempting to become a senator . Wake up ,this guy joined 3 months prior to the election , hardly a ringing endorsement for long held core beliefs and as previously mentioned the party treats the Westminster system and consequently our country with such total and utter contempt as to not even bother meeting or vetting him prior to endorsing him. How many people here honestly believe this clown standing was anything other than a joke after a session on the **** ?
One thing this election has proved beyond any shadow of a doubt is the URGENT need to review how the senate is elected . And expect it to be EXTREMELY high on both the major parties agendas . Any system that allows someone with 0.5% ( or 0.2% in the case of the Sporting party ) of the vote to in all sincerity to regard themselves as representative of the people has their hand on it .

While I did vote for AMEP, your point is extremely well made. Ultimately I believe you are correct, but some representation is better than none. Sometimes the only way you can get attention from major parties is through a protest vote. Both parties have done this to themselves with the way "THEY" distribute their preferences. If they don't want minor parties in the senate, "They" can fix it very easily in the next election ( I doubt this will happen though).

[wrongwaynorris]

Originally Posted by GQ_Smooth

While I did vote for AMEP, your point is extremely well made. Ultimately I believe you are correct, but some representation is better than none. Sometimes the only way you can get attention from major parties is through a protest vote. Both parties have done this to themselves with the way "THEY" distribute their preferences. If they don't want minor parties in the senate, "They" can fix it very easily in the next election ( I doubt this will happen though).

Thank You GQ_Smooth

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by Elks

An accomplished media guy like McNews to guide them through the maze. you know you want to.

Mate I have had meetings with ministers when trying to ensure land remains set aside for dirtbikers to use etc. , this was only a junior state minister, with his staffer by his side.... She was the one that asked the prickly questions, could see right away the dilemmas it might produce and ask further questions, subtly she also probed to see if I had any alternative agenda etc.. Really brought home how these are the people that run the country and make things happen, or not happen, not the puppets that snore through parliament..... She was so on her game having her ministers back it was a real lesson for me in just how on the ball someone can be. Only a long working life in the game can bring that knowledge, while politicians come and go, these people have more knowledge of how to get things done than any politician does...

[wrongwaynorris]

Originally Posted by mcnews

Mate I have had meetings with ministers when trying to ensure land remains set aside for dirtbikers to use etc. , this was only a junior state minister, with his staffer by his side.... She was the one that asked the prickly questions, could see right away the dilemmas it might produce and ask further questions, subtly she also probed to see if I had any alternative agenda etc.. Really brought home how these are the people that run the country and make things happen, or not happen, not the puppets that snore through parliament..... She was so on her game having her ministers back it was a real lesson for me in just how on the ball someone can be. Only a long working life in the game can bring that knowledge, while politicians come and go, these people have more knowledge of how to get things done than any politician does...

I hear you Trev , I too had several meetings with Frank Sartor and I cant remember whoever succeeded him during the drought and their minders who were absolutely right on the ball and across ALL issues .

It was at this point I realised Yes Minister was closer to truth than a comedy.

[ELAUBA]

Originally Posted by GQ_Smooth

...but some representation is better than none.

Not always.

[iCat]

probably one of the better media articles about this fellow:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nati...-1226715684830

steep learning curve - i hope he has thick skin...

i'm a member of AMEP, I joined at their inception. However, I did not vote for them. I looked into their policies and found their policies skewed. I looked at their preferences, and their preferences shot them down. Very disappointing.

[ratter]

every election there is winners and losers, it always appears the losers end up making the most noise!

[noflac52]

The theme here seems to be a complaint about the voting system we use and how preferences are given.

If you take an objective view its not the system at fault its not Ricky Muir at fault. All of the preferences are there for public scrutiny and most of them are there well before election day. All parties use the system to gain maximum advantage so why all the complaints when minor parties are smart enough to work the system to gain maximum advantage.
It seems that the AMEP are smart enough to do this and gain a seat so it stands to reason that they have some idea about the political arena they are entering but still some people are writing them off before they have even begun. Its a typical reaction by people who don't see the candidate fitting their profile of what they consider to be the correct one. This is exactly what the current affairs shows do to try and bias the community against anything that they don't like.

Its so easy to add yourself to the chorus of naysayers. You don't actually have to do anything. Its a lot harder to actually stand up for what you want and do something about it, which the AMEP are doing.

Give them a break guys if they can be crucified in a forum of enthusiasts they have an even harder road to travel in the public domain. Every enthusiast who has ever griped about a road rule being too harsh or being wrongly ticketed etc etc should be out there saying what a great thing this is and lifting the profile of the AMEP and emphasising what a good thing it is. Even if you're not fully convinced at this point. Spreading negative views around in public will only feed the predators who are ready to see it fail.

The only ones at fault here are the voters who don't vote for who they want. Who can't be bothered to do some homework on preferences and vote accordingly.
Posters are bagging the AMEP for some intelligent use of the system. To use the system this way to get a seat tells me that they do have some substance and they are worthy of our support and encouragement.

[Keepleft]

I'm sure he'll be fine, takes time to settle in.

Beware that damn media though:-)

[Keepleft]

Duplicate post for delete.

[TheSneakiness]

The problem I have is that it's always the minority that eff it up for the majority and I can see very important changes needed to be made in parliament blocked by the minority, of which AMEP is now part of.

Just friggin unfortunate the smaller fish splash the most.

[bungarra]

Originally Posted by Rapid_Axe

The problem I have is that it's always the minority that eff it up for the majority and I can see very important changes needed to be made in parliament blocked by the minority, of which AMEP is now part of.

Just friggin unfortunate the smaller fish splash the most.

That's the attitude the major parties hope for. They tried it when the Greens and the Democrats started but once the Greens aligned with the ALP was no longer a problem. The Senate is the house of review, so minor parties are less influenced by party influences unlike the representatives of the major 3.

If as a voter, you don't take the effort to select your preferences then stop complaining. I do mark every square below the line as I want my vote to mean something.

The system appears broken to most because they do not realise the ALP/LNP set the system as it is to stop minor parties having a say, now they know how to get the say. The majority didn't vote for the majors that is why they lost on preferences as they didn't flow to the ALP/LNP.

If oyu look at politics, in a lot of seats the voters didn't even realise who the representative from a major party was and new the indpendant or minor party candidate form the community, but still voted for one fo the ALP/LNP/Greens as they have always voted that way for a party not always the best representative.

[chamb0]

ABC's 7.30 are just about to do a story tonight on Ricky Muir.

[GT-spec15]

Just watched it.

Nice guy, doesn't really seem to have an opinion about much other than the rights of 4wd-ers and uniform road laws.

Not Senate material.

[monte.b]

Originally Posted by GT-spec15

Just watched it.

Nice guy, doesn't really seem to have an opinion about much other than the rights of 4wd-ers and uniform road laws.

Not Senate material.

OR well moving forward ,didnt we get rid of her ,i saw the interview and i think he handled it well ,he has a family of 5 kids, has lost hes job recently and been living on his savings ,he doesnt seem to be a bogan and with a good adviser he could do some good work for us car people ,hope he sticks it up them

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by GT-spec15

Not Senate material.

What is senate material? The other 90% of the senators full of **** just there for the benefits?

At least there is a few normal people in there this time around.