ford v6?!

Xbeute · 29-07-2011, 02:34 PM

mate who works for ford was saying the next generation (post fg) falcons are having a 4l v6 in them. aparently no where near as powerful as the inline 6. you guys heard much about this??

FPV GTHO · 29-07-2011, 03:14 PM

Ford only have a 3.5L and 3.7L V6 at the moment but its not impossible i suppose that theyve pushed it to 4l for future applications. As for being nowhere near as powerful, i dont know what hes talking about there. The 3.7 in the US can push out 220kw and 370nm so if they really were pushing that to 4L it should do 400nm.

Paxton · 29-07-2011, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xbeute

mate who works for ford was saying the next generation (post fg) falcons are having a 4l v6 in them. aparently no where near as powerful as the inline 6. you guys heard much about this??

I've head absolutely nothing, because he's pulling your leg.

The only 4.0 V6 in Ford's stable, is the antiquated Cologne V6, currently featured in the Land Rover Discovery 3, and the Ford Ranger (USDM). Our Aussie I6 beats this for Power, Economy and longevity.

If (and only IF) Ford Australia get the green light for another Falcon, it will have strings attached, one of which will be the use of the 3.5 and 3.7 V6es from the USofA. You can kiss the ZF goodbye as well...

Road_Warrior · 29-07-2011, 03:20 PM

Probably either the 3.5 or the 3.7.

My vote is the 3.5 and by then it should be quite an advanced engine. That's if the Falcon continues as a RWD car.

DJL351 · 29-07-2011, 03:39 PM

What no V10?

**Luke Plaizier** · 29-07-2011, 04:37 PM

The I6 will live on as a conjoined twin-block V12.....

Lukeyson

Deco28 · 29-07-2011, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

The I6 will live on as a conjoined twin-block V12.....

Lukeyson

I can confirm this.

V8kado · 29-07-2011, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deco28

I can confirm this.

I heard this from my mates brothers boss too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

vztrt · 29-07-2011, 06:54 PM

Your mate work for a dealer?

jpd80 · 29-07-2011, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paxton

I've head absolutely nothing, because he's pulling your leg.

The only 4.0 V6 in Ford's stable, is the antiquated Cologne V6, currently featured in the Land Rover Discovery 3, and the Ford Ranger (USDM). Our Aussie I6 beats this for Power, Economy and longevity.

If (and only IF) Ford Australia get the green light for another Falcon, it will have strings attached, one of which will be the use of the 3.5 and 3.7 V6es from the USofA. You can kiss the ZF goodbye as well...

Cologne Engine plant is gone, it closed up over a year ago and Ford is suing the last engines from stockpiles,
US Ranger finishes later this year and Rover is expected to go to a new (one hopes) Ford sourced V6.

6R80 is a ZF copy built under license by Ford in the USA, it uses a slightly different oil to the ZF
and is miles cheaper to service, the oil can be had for $5 a quart (litre)....

fordman302 · 29-07-2011, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Cologne Engine plant is gone, it closed up over a year ago and Ford is suing the last engines from stockpiles,
US Ranger finishes later this year and Rover is expected to go to a new (one hopes) Ford sourced V6.

6R80 is a ZF copy built under license by Ford in the USA, it uses a slightly different oil to the ZF
and is miles cheaper to service, the oil can be had for $5 a quart (litre)....

I am assuming that it would be the same 4lt that was avaliable in the courier a few years back, not a bad engine quite pokey and plenty of tourque

jpd80 · 29-07-2011, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordman302

I am assuming that it would be the same 4lt that was avaliable in the courier a few years back, not a bad engine quite pokey and plenty of torque

Basically same as EF 4.0 power/torque, there was talk of adapting Duratec V6 DOHC valve train and drive to it
but developing the 3.7 sealed its fate, the 3.7 is just a better mouse trap in all areas that matter...

Look at Mustang they went from the 4.0 Cologne to the 3.7 and picked up what, 70 odd horsepower.....

Bobman · 30-07-2011, 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

My vote is the 3.5 and by then it should be quite an advanced engine.

Advanced and American-made don't sit well together.

With the massive debt there, the engines probably wouldn't be the best of quality either, so here's hoping the I6 will continue soldiering on and keep the speculators quiet.

kpcart · 30-07-2011, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobman

Advanced and American-made don't sit well together.

With the massive debt there, the engines probably wouldn't be the best of quality either, so here's hoping the I6 will continue soldiering on and keep the speculators quiet.

why are you "hoping" an inferior engines soldiers on???
the amrican v6s engines make more power then the i6 from less capacity, meaning they are more efficient and use less fuel per capacity, and less fuel overall, and from what i have read the duratec engines (like the ones used in the f-trucks) have had hundreds of thousands of kilometres of testing and much more durability testing then any falcon i6 engine in history.

jpd80 · 30-07-2011, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobman

Advanced and American-made don't sit well together.

With the massive debt there, the engines probably wouldn't be the best of quality either, so here's hoping the I6 will continue soldiering on and keep the speculators quiet.

It's not speculation, there is a big push inside the company to use corporate engines,
the only reason the I-6 survives is because it was cheaper to do nothing and get govt money
for Euro 4 and EcoLPI, without that funding the I-6 and Geelong would have been ten toes up.

Having said that, it is my hope that FoA does one more I-6 just to discredit all the Journos saying Falcon is going FWD.
The biggest concern is that as the US dollar weakens, their V6 engine becomes more financially attractive to FoA.
In US dollars, the V6 Duratec is now about two thirds the cost it was when the V6 Falcon deal was cancelled...

XRtowcar · 30-07-2011, 10:33 AM

It all points to me to a Taurus replacing the Falcon.
Just cant see the production numbers generating the revenue for a new model Falcon.
Then it will be V6.

Road_Warrior · 30-07-2011, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobman

Advanced and American-made don't sit well together.

With the massive debt there, the engines probably wouldn't be the best of quality either, so here's hoping the I6 will continue soldiering on and keep the speculators quiet.

I think you need to check out the Ecoboost torture test videos on YouTube before making sweeping statements about the quality of this engine architecture. It's a good engine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRtowcar

It all points to me to a Taurus replacing the Falcon.
Just cant see the production numbers generating the revenue for a new model Falcon.
Then it will be V6.

Personally I don't think there will be a Falcon. We will be making the next-gen CD4 cars here and Mustang and some 4 door based on it will be imported.

Bossxr8 · 30-07-2011, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kpcart

why are you "hoping" an inferior engines soldiers on???
the amrican v6s engines make more power then the i6 from less capacity, meaning they are more efficient and use less fuel per capacity, and less fuel overall, and from what i have read the duratec engines (like the ones used in the f-trucks) have had hundreds of thousands of kilometres of testing and much more durability testing then any falcon i6 engine in history.

All Ford engines have to pass the same durability tests. The I6 does millions of k's during testing, runs for thousands of hours on the dyno just like all other Ford engines do.

The quality of the I6 is pretty damn good.

Only 3 engine pulls in Broadmeadows in a year is top notch. Alfa Romeo supposedly pulled a few hundred Holden built V6's from cars in a year.

**Jastel** · 30-07-2011, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Basically same as EF 4.0 power/torque, there was talk of adapting Duratec V6 DOHC valve train and drive to it
but developing the 3.7 sealed its fate, the 3.7 is just a better mouse trap in all areas that matter...

Look at Mustang they went from the 4.0 Cologne to the 3.7 and picked up what, 70 odd horsepower.....

Having just done 5500km in a V6 Mustang around the USA, averaging 14.9km/litre I can say it is a decent engine, plenty of power and econmical too, cruises at 80MPH @2000RPM, so good gearbox as well.

I was impressed with the Mustang overall, except for parking vision.

My 4speed BF XR6 does 100kmh (60MPH) at 2100RPM for 8.5km/litre

Luckily I didnt have the pleasure (or misfortune) to need to buy parts for or try to fix one. Maybe a different story then.

FPV GTHO · 31-07-2011, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Personally I don't think there will be a Falcon. We will be making the next-gen CD4 cars here and Mustang and some 4 door based on it will be imported.

Whats stopping a 4 door Mustang being badged Falcon

SteveJH · 31-07-2011, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

The I6 will live on as a conjoined twin-block V12.....

Lukeyson

That was for the Lincoln Falcon M5 competitor wasnt it? With the Mirrored alloy blocks at a narrow angle welded at the base?

I heard its an awesome package...

It due out in April next year isnt it? Was it the 1st?

jpd80 · 31-07-2011, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

Whats stopping a 4 door Mustang being badged Falcon

The shell and rear section is uniquely coupe to allow seating in between the wheel wells,
everything on the rear suspension pick up points is completely different to Falcon
otherwise they would have used BA as basis for S197 Mustang.

Big savings are in power train, electrical systems, suspension modules.....
framing-trim- glass go on the derivative side and make vehicles unique

Look at Territory, different platform to falcon, only shares 40% of parts
but those parts make the whole project economically feasible.

The same could be done with a Mustang-Falcon-Territory joint venture....
Even if next Falcon and Mustang only shared the right 40% of parts,
it could make the business case for Falcon a lot more economically secure.

2011G6E · 31-07-2011, 09:45 AM

I'm surprised the old I6 has hung on this long. A V6 allows for better packaging with more interior space, and it also allows the engine to be mounted lower and further back to aid center of gravity and for body design purposes. It's a miracle how low they can make the front panelwork of the FG with that big long motor in there.

Still, if BMW can do it, that's good enough for me...I love the old straight six lump!

falconnut · 31-07-2011, 02:16 PM

Thanks really interesting read.

I like the feeling, sound and size of a straight 6 and would be very sad to see it totally replaced with a v6 that is inferior in reliability and maintainance just to get the manufacturing costs and size of the engine smaller.

Road_Warrior · 31-07-2011, 02:37 PM

There is no evidence to suggest the Duratec motors are "inferior" in terms of reliability - refer to my Ecoboost torture test post above.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Falcon's I6 and have owned every generation of it, but it's time to take a bow for the betterment of the whole package is approaching.

The G6ET Spot · 31-07-2011, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRtowcar

It all points to me to a Taurus replacing the Falcon.
Just cant see the production numbers generating the revenue for a new model Falcon.
Then it will be V6.

Bingo. The Falcon will soon become a distant memory.

jpd80 · 31-07-2011, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The G6ET Spot

Bingo. The Falcon will soon become a distant memory.

This product cycle is with us until 2016, that's another four years.....

So Falcon won't becoming a distant anything for a long while...

If Diesel territory, EcoLPI and Ecoboost Falcon hit their marks, thoughts of FWD replacements will evaporate...
As long as there is a Mustang and an F150 to cover the cost of RWd power trains, Falcon has a chance to survive.

EgoFG · 31-07-2011, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

This product cycle is with us until 2016, that's another four years.....

So Falcon won't becoming a distant anything for a long while...

If Diesel territory, EcoLPI and Ecoboost Falcon hit their marks, thoughts of FWD replacements will evaporate...
As long as there is a Mustang and an F150 to cover the cost of RWd power trains, Falcon has a chance to survive.

Umm ... Bingo !!

2011G6E · 31-07-2011, 04:19 PM

All things pass...I recall similar cries of despair (not on the internet of course...didn't exist) when the venerable old Holden straight six was retired as the rising costs of meeting increasingly stringent anti-pollution, extra power, and fuel economy requirements, not to mention the massive re-engineering needed for unleaded.
People warmed to the new engines...in fact if you asked the vast majority of new car buyer what configuration the engine under thier bonnet was, they would be stumped at anything more than what fuel it uses and how many cylinders it has...

XRtowcar · 31-07-2011, 05:14 PM

Quote: I'm surprised the old I6 has hung on this long. A V6 allows for better packaging with more interior space, and it also allows the engine to be mounted lower and further back to aid center of gravity and for body design purposes. It's a miracle how low they can make the front panelwork of the FG with that big long motor in there.

It also means they can make it FWD.