THE GT335 competitor 300c SRT8 is going to be cheaper... - Page 3

Shonky. · 13-07-2012, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

Can you explain how it is a competitor to a holden and not a ford when all are in the same segment?

The srt may have more bells but it still has plenty of hp and more than enough or general street use. The fpv is not superior because its blown.

The FPV is superior because with an $800 tune it makes around 450kw and unless you have flippers for feet will run an 11 second quarter.

If you can't see what the 300c and r8 have in common that GT does not scroll up and read the comments of those that want toys instead of stonk

The car that some people want already exists, it's a HSV. I wish some people would stop trying to turn the FPV into more of the same.

And to most of those who want both, many (not all) can't afford one as it is so trying to load it with more stuff is not going to help.

All that will do is price out GT fans who are for the most part happy with the current formula

**Polyal** · 13-07-2012, 06:40 PM

Thats interesting. Id wager the vast majority of new hsv/fpv/srt's are not modded to the point of warranty cancellation...this forum is not representative of what happens in the wider market place and thus the tuneability of the cars plays a small role in new sales.

These cars are all in the same segment, the 300c is more muscle sedan than sports sedan but its still comparable. Saying that they are not simlar is something a silly HSV manager would state.

Shonky. · 13-07-2012, 06:57 PM

Even stock they make some 380kw and torque that is plotted as a line not a curve

**Charliewool** · 13-07-2012, 07:32 PM

Did anyone read Spoolmans posted article (and digest ANY of the yummy bits) [I]19-speaker harman/kardon sound system [/I transmission paddle shifters Napa and Poltrona Frau Foligno premium-leather covers the doors, armrests, centre console, cluster brow and instrument panel,
And what about.. The SRT8’s unique sports-oriented instrument cluster features a 300km/h primary speedometer and dedicated performance information in the EVIC, allowing the driver to track and monitor such stats as 0-100km/h, 400 metre acceleration times, braking response and lateral g-force performance. (by that it even tells ya your 1/4 mile ET?)
Read Fullboosts view on it.. http://www.fullboost.com.au/news.php?newsId=2607
I'm NOT knocking our home grown SC GT, but face facts.. this thing IS definately a competitor and boy is there lots of goodies in the SRT.
Also, I just wonder if we were talking a yank built FORD being the "boogie-man competitor" instead of a Chrysler, would there be the same "protective" responses that have been posted?
Personally, I think its a bloody great thing to have competition of this caliber!
Would I buy one? Hmmmmm.. Do they make a ute version?

Shonky. · 13-07-2012, 07:44 PM

I guess I am happier to know my 1/4 mile time is lower rather than having a dashboard that tells me what it is.

Depends what you want. Economically I don't see that FPV could fit all that kit into the car without jacking the price up. If the choices are:

1. cut back the emphasis on performance and include more kit
2. increase the price and have both
3. leave it as it is

I am happiest with #3

All that boy racer stuff might be fun when you first get it or to show your mates, but it just doesn't strike me as what GT is about

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

Saying that they are not simlar is something a silly HSV manager would state.

don't know who said they aren't similar

Quote:

Originally Posted by shonkymofo

I think the 300c is more of a threat to clubsport than GT

It is far closer to a HSV than an FPV

...........is all I said

I think most in this thread seem to hold the opinion that HSV and 300c have more kit.

GT has less, but offers those who I believe are true GT buyers more of what they want instead.

Which is why I think the similarity between 300c and HSV is greater than that between GT and 300c

**Grunter** · 13-07-2012, 07:49 PM

Here's an idea. Make another section for those trolls whom bag out FPV with no real reason and the FPV zealots that can't stand reading about the tiniest bit of criticism.
Then leave this area for the owners and FPV supporters who can actually have a decent discussion on the pros and cons of the brilliant FPV range without having to read the crap from either extreme.

IMO the current S/C FPV is a fantastic beast and an absolute ball tearer, but there is nothing wrong with people expressing their own reasonable opinions both positive and negative. The reality is most people on here wouldn't purchase a 300C, but I can't see the problem with chatting about features that some of us would like to see in the FPV's, even there's not a great chance of it happening.

**Charliewool** · 13-07-2012, 08:11 PM

Yes Shonky, agree to an extent.. It's NOT what us aussies (and kiwis) see as "A" GT.. That bits in our genes (and bloody fantastic).. Bathurst.. XYs, Rough as guts, seat of the pants stuff.
It's why a dedicated HSV man will ALWAYS buy his Clubbie and why us guys will ALWAYS buy a GT!
But times are a changin I reckon? We've been spoilt rotten lately with HiPo home built cars that run 12s stock, and can safely throw the keys to the Mrs to do the shopping in, or pick up Mr Oshumra from the airport in to take visiting clients.
We now want and EXPECT the GO AND the niceties!
I spose it's the old problem.. The more you get, the more you want?
Thinking now, Maybe its NOT really a competitor to us or HSV? (Too ingrained or stupid to change?) Maybe its the "wouldbe" AMG, Mseries beema guys that'll be attracted?

GTP534 · 13-07-2012, 08:40 PM

Most of the "goodies" are available on the Mondeo. Surely, it would not be much of an investment to get it into the FPV's?

I think it's coming though because there was a thread about further investment at Broadmeadows and I'm pretty sure some of the electronics can support things like adaptive cruise control, collision avoidance, etc.

Road_Warrior · 13-07-2012, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTP534

Most of the "goodies" are available on the Mondeo. Surely, it would not be much of an investment to get it into the FPV's?

I think it's coming though because there was a thread about further investment at Broadmeadows and I'm pretty sure some of the electronics can support things like adaptive cruise control, collision avoidance, etc.

FPV can only work with what is provided to them in the core vehicle.

Yes it is true that there have been software and equipment updates at Broady and that these updates will allow FoA to do calibration, design, and testing work on vehicles with these features. However these features are not likely to turn up until the update in 2014 (or before 1 November 2013 if another course of action is decided)

Rodge · 14-07-2012, 10:12 AM

On the subject of adaptive cruise control... Many of these adaptive systems including the one fitted to the SRT8 don't work under 40 k.p.h. and seeing as the average speed around many cities in the busy commute period each day is considerably below that they're not the wizz bang peice of kit I thought they were. SRT8 has what's known as Partial adaptive cruise control

Seems there are two types of systems, one's that switch off under a certain speed, usually about 30-40 k.p.h. and hand control back to the driver, (Partial Adaptive cruise), and ones that will provide true adaptive cruise control including pulling the vehicle up to a complete stop and starting off again when the vehicle in front takes off again. Only the latter types are really any good at significantly easing the strain of congested city traffic.

Some info on Ford Mondeo's sytem. As you can see its not the panacea for the daily commute stress many might have been hoping for and is only a partial adaptive cruise control for use in limited circumstances:-
http://www.fordmanuals.org/page-2914.html

Info about the differences between partial and full adaptive cruise control and listing of vehicles with full adaptive cruise.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adaptive_cruise_control

GT0132 · 14-07-2012, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAGPIE

Cracks me up all you FPV owners slagging the 300 for it's looks, have you looked at your raccoon eyes recently.

Lots of people complain about FPV's looking underdone, lots complain that HSV's are over the top, opinions are like a-holes everyone has one.

Just because you don't like the looks of the 300 doesn't mean everyone does.

Yep, aesthetics are purely and simply subjective. Looks are the reason many FPV owners will not upgrade to an FG with many looking at HSV as an alternative, as shown by the comments made recently in another thread by forum members . The 300 though is certainly not as appealing lookswise as the the FG (but that's only my opinion of course). I don't mind the raccoon eyes and the FG GT front is quite appealing. It's the bulky rear end and the lack of differentiation between the GtT/P/E and the lesser spec models that doesn't sit quite right with me (particularly the GT-E).

As to the barometer of praise verses slagging off the new SC GT, I'd say the positive threads far outweigh the negatives, don't they?..Every time I come on the forums the new posts section is full of comments from owners who have just gone out for a loaf of bread late at night only to come back an hour or two later after driving around twisting cliff side roads and once arriving home don't want to get out of their car and go to bed.

ED Classic · 14-07-2012, 03:15 PM

Standard = today. Options is a thing of the past!!

**Grunter** · 14-07-2012, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodge

On the subject of adaptive cruise control... Many of these adaptive systems including the one fitted to the SRT8 don't work under 40 k.p.h. and seeing as the average speed around many cities in the busy commute period each day is considerably below that they're not the wizz bang peice of kit I thought they were. SRT8 has what's known as Partial adaptive cruise control

Seems there are two types of systems, one's that switch off under a certain speed, usually about 30-40 k.p.h. and hand control back to the driver, (Partial Adaptive cruise), and ones that will provide true adaptive cruise control including pulling the vehicle up to a complete stop and starting off again when the vehicle in front takes off again. Only the latter types are really any good at significantly easing the strain of congested city traffic.....

The SRT8 Jeep (not sure about the 300C) will also not stop you hitting the car in front if it brakes heavily. Apparently it only applies about 40% of the the braking power when using ACC.

chopstar87 · 14-07-2012, 04:32 PM

The OP here..
firstly, I didnt start this thread to bag the GT335 out at all.. I just wanted to know other peoples thoughts on if the new SRT8 hitting the market would have the affect on the GT as i see them in the same part of the market. Large RWD V8 Sedan that between 60-80k bracket to purchase.

At the moment as well i am looking to personally upgrade to a new car next year from my BA XR6 which i have since i was 19, i am now 25. and the 3 cars in the market i am considering to purchase brand new are: FG MkII G6E Turbo, FG MKII GT335 or the SRT8. all around the same price bracket, all meet my requirement. Comfy, RWD large sedan that is quick in a straight line. I dont care about tuning, as i dont want to risk my warranty.

Why Cant there be a G8E??? 315 GS in a G6Eturbo Trim/Body.. my decision would already be made! lol! (price for the GTE is a bit steep for me for whats on offer, but i love the look of the GTE!)

SO in some way i hope the SRT8 does affect the GT, so they increase the Tech in the car, as some cars you buy for $20k have more tech then the GT, which is a little concerning, considering the price and its not hardcore track car (it has Soft Suspension, Narrow Tyres for starters), so that is not an excuse, so you cant say its all out proformance car where you dont need the tech, the creature comforts. its a GT.. A Grand Tourer! (Luxury Car with Power)

Sorry if i offended the GT owners here, as it wasn't the purpose of the thread. it was to get people thoughts on the affects this new model would have on the GT, because they are competitors.

I will be honest, i am a blue oval fan from birth, so me to get a SRT8 over a G6E turbo or GT335 is highly unlikely. but it does really make you think about it with the price and features it has. If it got me thinking.. I am sure its got a lot of others thinking too, especially if they arent Die Hard Blue oval fans like most of us here.

At the moment the Brain says SRT8... the Heart Says G6E turbo/GT. With this type of purchase, the heart will generally win!

Shonky. · 14-07-2012, 06:36 PM

no dramas at all Chop

and I'm sorry for my contribution to going off topic too.

I guess I was just defending my original comment that I think the new 300 is more likely to encroach on HSV's ground more than FPV's because as is so frequently highlighted FPV buyers are more happy to forgoe some of the bells and whistles that HSV buyers get with their purchase.

I certainly wouldn't turn my nose up if they wanted to put more goodies into the GT. I am just not ready to walk away if they are slower to do so than rest of the market, because I enjoy the drive so much and can appreciate the different position the company is in.

(1st on my wish list in that department would be keyless start)

**Elks** · 14-07-2012, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shonkymofo

I guess I was just defending my original comment that I think the new 300 is more likely to encroach on HSV's ground more than FPV's because as is so frequently highlighted FPV buyers are more happy to forgoe some of the bells and whistles that HSV buyers get with their purchase.

I have to disagree with you there Shonky. Whilst I doubt it would sway the majority of us forum fanatics, the other 99% of the population who have no allegiance to any of the big 3 will no doubt shop and compare with with their own bias. If the want performance FPV, equipment levels SRT8, something to match your mullet HSV.

As for pricing. If it's anything like the old SRT RRP is only the start. + delivery +ORC + accessories etc. Expect to pay $75 real is my guess. I was quoted $84k for the old model

Rodge · 14-07-2012, 07:17 PM

Is it just me ???, do I need new glasses ??? but it looks like they took the original clay model from the previous cars design, sand-papered off a few of the sharper edges and that's it. Okay they've done some work on the interior and equipment level's no question but OMG that exterior look, especially the front

Shonky. · 14-07-2012, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodge

Is it just me ???, do I need new glasses ??? but it looks like they took the original clay model from the previous cars design, sand-papered off a few of the sharper edges and that's it. Okay they've done some work on the interior and equipment level's no question but OMG that exterior look, especially the front

ha ha. They put the clay from the previous car out in the sun, then once it had melted a bit wheeled it back inside and commenced work

steve.n · 14-07-2012, 10:29 PM

The Chrysler is a bargain in comparison with the FPV range, with all of its goodies but i never feel ripped off when i hop into my blown GTP, press the red button and motor off down the road listening to my Quad sound system and the glorious whine up front. I wasnt born with blue blood and have owned virtually every brand of car including HDTs and HSVs ,but im now a very satisfied FPV owner. Sure i wish it was cheaper but the price didnt stop me from purchasing what i consider the most enjoyable car ive ever owned.The other two may be cheaper with more equipment but i bought the best. IMO.

MAGPIE · 15-07-2012, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodge

Is it just me ???, do I need new glasses ??? but it looks like they took the original clay model from the previous cars design, sand-papered off a few of the sharper edges and that's it. Okay they've done some work on the interior and equipment level's no question but OMG that exterior look, especially the front

I think you need new glasses.

Why don't you stop bagging it's looks and tell us about the new world class ZF nine speed that's apparently coming

Rodge · 15-07-2012, 09:58 AM

^^Looks like I've hit a raw nerve bro. No need to take the gloves off I'm not bagging your Mustang's looks. Common even an American car fan can take their rose coloured glasses off and see that for a model update that's 7 years in the making this has the most minimalist exterior changes they could possibly get away with. It almost redefines the meaning of the term an evolutionary model. Of course they'd dress that up in their marketing and promotion as timeless styling, what else could they say

We all know Chrysler got into deep doggy doo with the global financial crisis and Daimlier were desperate to get out..to me it looks like they helped them re-work the interior and equipment level's just before they bailed out and then Chrysler didn't have enough money to re-work the exterior properly, just calling it as I see it, old glasses and all. Perhaps some punters with better eyesight will see the beauty... lets see how it sells.

N.Z. Autocar called it the way I see it too, and found the minimalist exterior changes quite questionable, (of course they put it in the most dipolmatic terms possible so as to minimise the risk of losing advertising spend from the importers), perhaps you missed their write-up ?

MAGPIE · 15-07-2012, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodge

^^Looks like I've hit a raw nerve bro. No need to take the gloves off I'm not bagging your Mustang's looks. Common even an American car fan can take their rose coloured glasses off and see that for a model update that's 7 years in the making this has the most minimalist exterior changes they could possibly get away with. It almost redefines the meaning of the term an evolutionary model. Of course they'd dress that up in their marketing and promotion as timeless styling, what else could they say

We all know Chrysler got into deep doggy doo with the global financial crisis and Daimlier were desperate to get out..to me it looks like they helped them re-work the interior and equipment level's just before they bailed out and then Chrysler didn't have enough money to re-work the exterior properly, just calling it as I see it, old glasses and all. Perhaps some punters with better eyesight will see the beauty... lets see how it sells.

N.Z. Autocar called it the way I see it too, and found the minimalist exterior changes quite questionable, (of course they put it in the most dipolmatic terms possible so as to minimise the risk of losing advertising spend from the importers), perhaps you missed their write-up ?

Mate I'm just pulling ya leg, but I do like the looks I think it just refines it a bit. I also accept it is really a "love it or hate it" look.

As for Autocar I gave up on them long ago, basically due to what you mention (scared to speak the truth), I buy the odd mag if there is something I want to read about.

Rodge · 15-07-2012, 10:54 AM

No worries bro. Have you seen the Brochure, second half pertains to the 300 STR8 - $87,990 which seems pretty reasonable for the N.Z. paso, same price as a FPV GT with cloth trim.
http://srt.co.nz/sites/default/files.../SRT_WEB_0.pdf
No doubt about it, there's an absolute ton of kit in there that's a first for our market in any large car costing south of $90,000.
1979 kg's dry is 191 kg's more than a GT measured with a full tank of fuel at 1839 kg's by Autocar N.Z. (68 litres x .75 kg per litre = 51 kg's of fuel so GT weight is approx 1788 kg's dry).
Engine is made in Mexico and assembly of the vehicle is in Canada.
Deep cherry red looks the pick of the colours by miles.

MAGPIE · 15-07-2012, 12:03 PM

Resale will be interesting, an old shape 2011 on TradeMe for 56k with only 2500km

Agree on the cherry red

I think if your a more relaxed cruiser type driver you'd be mad not to go for the SRT, if you like to throw your car around a bit more I'd be going for the FPV.

PHawk · 15-07-2012, 02:56 PM

Thanks for posting that link Rodge, actually if they wacked a blower onto that 6.4 it might be a contender for my next car! It's growing on me!

Rodge · 15-07-2012, 03:02 PM

Yeah resale has historically been an absolute shocker and there's no doubt $50,000 would buy that car.
That said the amount of standard kit in the new model for example the 300 V6 Luxury for $67,990 Kiwi is truly eye-watering stuff, so if people just want to cruise and enjoy the technology, comfort and view I can see a few punters opting for that, especially tempting if kitted with the 19 speaker Harmon Kardon system which seems a very reasonably priced option at $1,800 Kiwi and the optional super large sunroof. Fuel consumption of 9.7L/100 km's courtesy of the ZF 8 speed auto would be a welcome change from V8 level's of consumption too especially with premium fuel here still north of $2 a litre.

I can see a few punters being tempted, after all even if one doesn't like the front, and I accept that's a subjective thing, the rest of its not too bad IMO and you're not looking at its face while driving it are you...

Truth be known, keep it quiet

but I find this vehicle very, very frustrating, okay obviously i'm not smitten with its looks BUT it has all the technology and world class sound system i'm really hankering for, much of this technology will probably never make its way into any FPV in the forseeable future. To rub salt into the wound its substaintially cheaper than a SC GT-E/P.

P.S. No worries Phil. Check this out too mate http://www.chrysler.co.nz/sites/defa...brochure_1.pdf How do they do that top spec 300 Luxury for the price mentioned above

Scottrod1 · 15-07-2012, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHawk

Thanks for posting that link Rodge, actually if they wacked a blower onto that 6.4 it might be a contender for my next car! It's growing on me!

There is already talk at SRT of a dealer installed Eton supercharger package!

WASP · 15-07-2012, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHawk

Thanks for posting that link Rodge, actually if they wacked a blower onto that 6.4 it might be a contender for my next car! It's growing on me!

That's the problem with owning a forced induced performance vehicle (turbo or supercharged). Those that havent dont yet what all the fuss is about. Those that have find the experience addictive.

FPV · 15-07-2012, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scottrod1

There is already talk at SRT of a dealer installed Eton supercharger package!

In the U.S there appears to be 6.2l Supercharged V8 coming next year. To be released on special edition SRT models.

WASP · 15-07-2012, 06:48 PM

I have to say if FPV did manage to find a way to get all that fruit into a GT without pushing the price up would make it a runaway success, but relative to the market size. Unfortunately that's the problem right there. The market size here in Australia is too small. The SRT8/300C is made for the US and other global markets therefore its volumes are much greater and the cost to bring it to market can be spread across more units.

Our Ford Falcon and its FPV cousins can simply not compete feature for feature with the likes of the SRT8/300C range. Ford/FPV instead must priorities and deliver only things that are considered 'must have' items in order to make buyers act. For some this will never be enough and they will look elsewhere. For others the blown 5.0 or 4.0T makes up enough ground. That and the fact that it’s an Aussie built Ford after all will be enough to offset any other short coming.

For me, the owning experience of a brand that I highly regarded is worth more than the total some of parts that make up the physical product.