Government handouts to car industry

[dags41v]

Good to see more of our money going into our car industry.

GM HOLDEN has been given another handout - this time to develop relationships with its parts suppliers.
The $2.03 million confirmed yesterday by federal Innovation and Industry Minister Senator Kim Carr is under the Automotive Supply Chain Development Program.

It came less than a week after he visited Holden's plant at Elizabeth to hand over $39.8 million from the Green Car fund to help develop a more fuel-efficient Commodore.

The grants follow the $149 million of federal taxpayers' money that went to Holden over three years to help get the Cruze small car into production at Elizabeth.

Senator Carr yesterday also announced $1.16 million to Ford and $2.37 million to Toyota along with the $2.03 million to Holden "to foster even closer collaboration with their own key suppliers".[/I][/I]

[ebxr8240]

Yes our money and jobs...
So buy Australian or no car industry...

[dags41v]

Seeing as it is partly my tax $$$ going to ford maybe I should get a discount!!!!!

[2011G6E]

*Sigh*...

This has been going on since the seventies at least. If you keep throwing money at them they will never learn.

I'd support this if it was tied to increases in quality, a set of KPI's that they have to meet or bam, no more taxpayers dollars. For too long the Australian car industry has been subsidised and protected from the big bad world outside our borders by import taxes and tariffs to artificially inflate the cost of imported cars, especially those that are likely to compete with stuff made here.
This efficiently does the double duty of ignoring the real world, and at the same time allowing our makers to sit back lazily and make a sometimes-inferior product knowing they have the official protection of the government, as well as a sometimes-equally-lazy public who jus put up with whatever they chuck out the factory doors, problems, lack of features, quality control issues, and all.

That previous sentence could have been tapped out of a typewriter in the 1970's and it would fit the situation equally well as it does today. Nothing has changed, we'll always keep giving them money, and while we do they will never learn that they have to become sharply priced and competitive with features and quality to survive.
By just relying on a public that they know will pay good money for your product, and who you know will excuse any issues by saying "Aww bless 'em...they do the best for the money we pay" (even when, in reality, for the "money we pay" they should be a damn sight better cars by world standards), there will be no forces compelling them to take a hard look at themselves and truly change.

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by dags41v

"to foster even closer collaboration with their own key suppliers".

i don't get what this is supposed to achieve? other than give them money.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by dags41v

Good to see more of our money going into our car industry.

GM HOLDEN has been given another handout - this time to develop relationships with its parts suppliers.
The $2.03 million confirmed yesterday by federal Innovation and Industry Minister Senator Kim Carr is under the Automotive Supply Chain Development Program.

It came less than a week after he visited Holden's plant at Elizabeth to hand over $39.8 million from the Green Car fund to help develop a more fuel-efficient Commodore.

The grants follow the $149 million of federal taxpayers' money that went to Holden over three years to help get the Cruze small car into production at Elizabeth.

Senator Carr yesterday also announced $1.16 million to Ford and $2.37 million to Toyota along with the $2.03 million to Holden "to foster even closer collaboration with their own key suppliers".[/I][/I]

I'm sorry. Why is Ford getting so little?

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by dags41v

Good to see more of our money going into our car industry.

GM HOLDEN has been given another handout - this time to develop relationships with its parts suppliers.
The $2.03 million confirmed yesterday by federal Innovation and Industry Minister Senator Kim Carr is under the Automotive Supply Chain Development Program.

It came less than a week after he visited Holden's plant at Elizabeth to hand over $39.8 million from the Green Car fund to help develop a more fuel-efficient Commodore.

The grants follow the $149 million of federal taxpayers' money that went to Holden over three years to help get the Cruze small car into production at Elizabeth.

Senator Carr yesterday also announced $1.16 million to Ford and $2.37 million to Toyota along with the $2.03 million to Holden "to foster even closer collaboration with their own key suppliers".[/I][/I]

They need handouts for relationship building?

[outback_ute]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

*Sigh*...

I don't think it is such a big deal (esp $2m!) Every other country supports their car industry so if they did not have these programs ours would be disadvantaged. Many other industries also receive government assistance too.

[Struggo]

Originally Posted by outback_ute

I don't think it is such a big deal (esp $2m!) Every other country supports their car industry so if they did not have these programs ours would be disadvantaged. Many other industries also receive government assistance too.

Spot on

The US heavily supports their auto and farming industries, as does the EU, Japan, China, Korea, Sth Africa, the list goes on.

Wake up people, without primary industries such as farming and secondary industries such as auto manufacture, this country will collapse.

US Farm Support - http://adl.brs.gov.au/data/warehouse...37/PC12197.pdf

EU Farm Support - http://www.dfat.gov.au/publications/...griculture.pdf

EU Auto Support - http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/secto...e/index_en.htm

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by outback_ute

I don't think it is such a big deal (esp $2m!) Every other country supports their car industry so if they did not have these programs ours would be disadvantaged. Many other industries also receive government assistance too.

The one simply massive hurdle that any overseas maker has to overcome for Australia is that we are the only country in the world (well, I'm not entirely sure about New Zealand, but I know other countries couldn't care less) where you can't just import and drive a brand new left hand drive car. Nowhere else in the world has a problem with it, and it means that cars built for here have to be special models.

Without that and prohibitive import tarriffs and duties, can you honestly say that there aren't cars in the world that you would love to get your greasy mits on, left hand drive or not, and have sitting in your driveway if the cost the same or less than a Falcodore?

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

The one simply massive hurdle that any overseas maker has to overcome for Australia is that we are the only country in the world (well, I'm not entirely sure about New Zealand, but I know other countries couldn't care less) where you can't just import and drive a brand new left hand drive car. Nowhere else in the world has a problem with it, and it means that cars built for here have to be special models.

Without that and prohibitive import tarriffs and duties, can you honestly say that there aren't cars in the world that you would love to get your greasy mits on, left hand drive or not, and have sitting in your driveway if the cost the same or less than a Falcodore?

Yes, most European and US cars are vastly over-rated. For the money I have never have driven cars as good as Commodores and Falcons. Heck a a large 6 cylinder, RWD Falcon doesnt cost you much more than a FWD 4 cylinder Camry or Golf over here - just insanely cheap by world standards.

[Rodp]

I'm siding with sarcasm from the OP.

Just in case I'm wrong. There's a huge knockdown effect if we lose our car industry. It's the reason there's injections from the government - many jobs and industries would die if Ford/Holden went out of business. There's a bigger picture outside the individual companies that produce our cars.

[mik]

a couple of million is peanuts, have a look how much it costs the tax payer to transport our pollies in a manner to which they are accustomed around for a year.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

The one simply massive hurdle that any overseas maker has to overcome for Australia is that we are the only country in the world (well, I'm not entirely sure about New Zealand, but I know other countries couldn't care less) where you can't just import and drive a brand new left hand drive car. Nowhere else in the world has a problem with it, and it means that cars built for here have to be special models.

Without that and prohibitive import tarriffs and duties, can you honestly say that there aren't cars in the world that you would love to get your greasy mits on, left hand drive or not, and have sitting in your driveway if the cost the same or less than a Falcodore?

Rubbish, you can't just rock up to the US for example in a RHD car and start driving it without the car having been Federalised first by the NHTSA, and a whole heap of other countries have import duties on cars just like Australia does.

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by mik

a couple of million is peanuts, have a look how much it costs the tax payer to transport our pollies in a manner to which they are accustomed around for a year.

Its not a couple of million in its entirety, its a couple of million this week. The article states Kim Carr was rocking up to Holden to give them $39 million. The $39 million was from the green car fund, to be handed out on a 3 for 1 basis, for something that was supposed to happen in 2013. Ie Holden were supposed to spend their share before they got the government money. In a matter of a week, Holden are getting the money (if the article is to be beleived), and they have spent nothing.

Many more millions to spend on developing relationships with suppliers. Isnt that a function of normal business practices. Isnt it a great fear that the biggest suppliers to the three are overseas, thus taxpayer money is just being sent overseas.

It wouldnt be such a shame if Kim Carr made sure Australian money is being spent on productive things, but he is handing over money without making sure it is spent the way it should be.

Everyone praises the amount of money the government has thrown at them, but fails to acknowledge that the number of cars being made each year is diminishing. This year will be worse than the total made during the GFC.

If Holden are requiring the money now, you can be damn sure they are nearly on their knees. Cruze production is screwing them big time.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Rubbish, you can't just rock up to the US for example in a RHD car and start driving it without the car having been Federalised first by the NHTSA, and a whole heap of other countries have import duties on cars just like Australia does.

The point is that a private individual can do it, easily. If large companies wanted to do it, they could after meeting stuff like headlights and other regs.

The location of the steering wheel is the least of thier worries and doesn't really come into it.

You simply can't bring in, say, a brand new car from the USA and register it, even if you change the headlights and seatbelts and other things to suit...that steering wheel on the left will rule it out immediately, unless it's over 30 years old.

Back to funding the Australian car industry, why should they be any different to subsidies that are frowned upon severely to other struggling Australian industries?

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

I'm sorry. Why is Ford getting so little?

Toyota's figure is higher than both Holden and Ford, so perhaps it's percentage based?

The use of the words 'Automotive Supply Chain Development Program' indicates to me that perhaps there is a push for them to streamline business practices, we had SCDP at my old job - basically restructure the supply chain, build better business processes and saving money within the business. Not saying this is exactly what it's for, but the wording seems very familiar.

[Kryton]

Why are we paying for Toyota?
The biggest manufacturer in the world and we have to hand them money..........

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by davway

Why are we paying for Toyota?
The biggest manufacturer in the world and we have to hand them money..........

GM is 2nd and Ford is 3rd so same could apply.

[XR Martin]

You do realise just about every car company gets hand outs from Governments some way or another?
Japan, Germany, Korea, France, US, UK, etc all subsidise their own car makers.

I dont have a problem of our Government help local companies. Have a think about how many jobs the local auto industry supports and come back to me.

[svo supporter]

Maybe Ford should join the media hype and blow their trumpet about getting a grant? Might help pick up their sales of aussie built car/s

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Without that and prohibitive import tarriffs and duties, can you honestly say that there aren't cars in the world that you would love to get your greasy mits on, left hand drive or not, and have sitting in your driveway if the cost the same or less than a Falcodore?

For a country with its own Auto industry, Australia tariffs imported vehicles less than any other country.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by svo supporter

Maybe Ford should join the media hype and blow their trumpet about getting a grant? Might help pick up their sales of aussie built car/s

Doubt it. Ford make a profit and certain media crows on that they only did it with government money.

[dags41v]

Im glad the government puts some money into local industry, even if its not the most efficient etc at least we are continuing to make something and I think that is important.
I also see some of the other places our government drops millions of $$$$$ and would prefer it goes to local manufacturing and the chain of suppliers that support that endeavour.

[ebxr8240]

AS long as this $$$ is spent here..
Not to pay off U.S gov ..
Their parent company...

[mik]

Originally Posted by davway

Why are we paying for Toyota?
The biggest manufacturer in the world and we have to hand them money..........

imo its because toyota is very focused on a the job at hand..... making profit , and at the drop of a hat when toyota bean counters see that profit is not happening , they will pack their bags to make cars off shore, they won`t run at a loss for any time period , and pollies don`t like to lose thousands of votes when huge companies stop employing people.

[Veefore]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

*Sigh*...

This has been going on since the seventies at least. If you keep throwing money at them they will never learn.

I'd support this if it was tied to increases in quality, a set of KPI's that they have to meet or bam, no more taxpayers dollars. For too long the Australian car industry has been subsidised and protected from the big bad world outside our borders by import taxes and tariffs to artificially inflate the cost of imported cars, especially those that are likely to compete with stuff made here.
This efficiently does the double duty of ignoring the real world, and at the same time allowing our makers to sit back lazily and make a sometimes-inferior product knowing they have the official protection of the government, as well as a sometimes-equally-lazy public who jus put up with whatever they chuck out the factory doors, problems, lack of features, quality control issues, and all.

That previous sentence could have been tapped out of a typewriter in the 1970's and it would fit the situation equally well as it does today. Nothing has changed, we'll always keep giving them money, and while we do they will never learn that they have to become sharply priced and competitive with features and quality to survive.
By just relying on a public that they know will pay good money for your product, and who you know will excuse any issues by saying "Aww bless 'em...they do the best for the money we pay" (even when, in reality, for the "money we pay" they should be a damn sight better cars by world standards), there will be no forces compelling them to take a hard look at themselves and truly change.

Since every mass-produced car maker in the world is receiving multiple government grants and often far more than what our local indistry is receiving how would the australian industry survive if the grants were stopped?

There is not a car manufacturing plant in the world that wasn't built with serious tax breaks and subsidies. This is how governments create new jobs and keep the jobless rate down. Without government rebates and subsidies, there would be more than a billion dollars out of the WA economy, more in some other states. The national unemployment rate would increase by more than 10% overnight, leading to depression and inevitably more job cuts.

Unfortunately, government grants/subisdies are the ONLY thing that keeps many Australian industries (including primary) competitive with equally (or greater) supported international countries.