Australian Drivers Are Ignoring LPG

[Papa Smurf]

We have 3 BA MKII LPG utes at work and we love em. We pay approx 46c a litre and they are getting pretty good mileage.

[MO]

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Joke of the year.

Ok if that LPG was set on fire it would catch flame and evapourate .5 seconds later, once the flame reaches the tank it'll cease due to the flame not being able to get into the tank because a force (pressure) is pushing it backwards. A lot like 2 + magnets.

Whereas petrol will instantly catch, however I don't think it explodes cause it's a spirit, but it can if spilled on the floor or on an almost bone dry tank.

It's like the people who slander about Man evolving from Monkeys, It's like saying the 4WD came directly after the wheel. These stupid misconceptions are what keep holding technology back.

It seems you were behind the door when the evolution bus loaded and left.
In future before you open your keyboard do some research into what you saying,
Now I must go and sort out the maintenance of the gene pool chlorinator.

[ILLaViTaR]

Originally Posted by MO

It seems you were behind the door when the evolution bus loaded and left.
In future before you open your keyboard do some research into what you saying,
Now I must go and sort out the maintenance of the gene pool chlorinator.

Sits here and waits for explanation.

Fire cannot spark without oxygen, Oxygern controls the rate at which fire burns, there's no oxygen in a gas tank, so how does the gas in the tank ignite?

You'd have to rupture the tank or literally sit it in a fire waiting for it to explode.

[ILLaViTaR]

Originally Posted by RG

I can't believe that you can actually see any logic in this post or the one below it.

You do realise that LPG is actually flammable right? Also how can it be pressurised if it has a pressure "exponentially" lower than outside atmosphere? Wouldn't that be de-pressurised?

You've really confused me here.

Flammable meaning it's ignited easier what I'm saying is it cannot ignite period in a tank due to lack of oxygen unless the pressure/heat is interfered with (maniplulating the tanks pressure), you can't start a fire without oxygen.

And you already know the answer to your second question I meant pressurised/more dense etc.

[last fairlane]

I love it
400Ks for $28 in a factory dual fuel AU Fairmont
Im saving about $50 each week and I reckon that it runs just as hard
on gas as it does on unleaded
in the six years Ive had the car its well and truely paid for itself
the only thing I m shitty about is the Tickford badges are under the bonnet
and no one sees them
thanks John

[MO]

The concern of some is the rupture of the cylinder in an accident which would/ could lead to it becoming a BLEVE.
Now instead of me spending the next hour explaining this why don't you use google.
And just for a taster when lpg escapes in an uncontrolled manner it expands at roughly 270x.

[Road_Warrior]

Well it looks like we may as well settle down for the night. Pass the popcorn Charles, this is going to be some good viewing.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by PoweredByCNG

FYI, the E-gas sedans have tank design that allows it to hold 93-litres of LPG.

Regards,
Dave

Is that a cylinder or a toroidal tank? The largest one I saw available for the BA sedan was an APA unit at 68 useable litres (85 volumetric litres)

[Windsor220]

I personally dont have a need for it at the moment. Petrol is fine and is still cheap enough.
The old mixer systems are terrible. New systems are a heap better. As someone said earlier, manufacturers still arent making the cars fully compatible with early wear on parts and sometimes ECU problems. The only way i would ever drive one if it was factory straight gas.

[Spudz27]

I drive an LPG converted triton for work. Driving it put me off LPG. I drive all country k's in it, in 2 weeks sometimes I travel 2,500km. You can't overtake unless you have a **** load of time, as it is tuned for LPG it runs **** on fuel also (although it is easier to overtake if you switch to fuel), 130L goes a whole 600km and even then you have to drive below 110km/h to do so. It is a V6 triton.

[GasoLane]

Sorry to bring this thread back on topic (Australian Drivers Are Ignoring LPG) but The Motor Report is talking about DEDICATED LPG vehicles.

Other than Ford's E-gas how many other car makers offer dedicated gas cars?

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

Sorry to bring this thread back on topic (Australian Drivers Are Ignoring LPG) but The Motor Report is talking about DEDICATED LPG vehicles.

Other than Ford's E-gas how many other car makers offer dedicated gas cars?

To me it says convert or buy an LPG vehicle.

About The Motor Report Poll:

Conducted over the month of July, with a total of 972 respondents.

If Unleaded Petrol hits $1.50 a litre, which of the following best describes your likely response:

* My next car will be a smaller petrol-engined (or hybrid) fuel miser (17.0%)
* My next car will be a diesel (31.0%)
* I will convert to LPG (or purchase an LPG vehicle) (12.0%)
* I will make no change to my car choice nor driving habits (40.0%)

[Spudz27]

Also forgot to add to my post, some moron mechanic did not fit the right leads and as a result it backfired. I found out after stopping that it blew the air cleaner clips and lid off, set fire to the air filter and god damn near,y set fire to the car.

[CAMS290]

450 kays for $31 in my BA E Gas ute, I love it !

I bought it to save $$$ not as a performance car, I would of kept my Pursuit if I wanted that.

LPG isn't everyone's cup of tea, but if you drive sedately and sensibly they are a great thing.

[jaydee]

The family has 3 cars, all on gas. The XC 351 has been on gas for about 15 years, good as gold, daily driver, sure about 20% loss in power but hell it's a 351.
Then the BA Futura on dedicated gas, got 700 kays on a country run for $35 and the boys Mazda 626 on gas too, no probs apart from a back fire that blew up the air box, my fault though for giving it a tickle on start up.

We used to have a VP on gas too and towed a caravan to from Perth to Darwin and back, no probs and only found one place in the middle of nowhere that didn't do gas but had a tank full of petrol so happy days.

I can't understand the reluctance, you can lead a horse to water...

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by vztrt

To me it says convert or buy an LPG vehicle.

I was talking about the article NOT the poll!...which fails to mention exactly how many people voted anyway.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

I was talking about the article NOT the poll!...which fails to mention exactly how many people voted anyway.

You mean the 972 people that was quoted?

[paule11]

lpg is expensive in north queensland between 74 to 77 cents back in July I wouldnt consider it . I remember going to Sydney 10 years ago and Sydneys lpg was half the cost of Townsvilles lpg

[OLDFORDNUT]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

LPG has an "anti performance" stigma, you wont overcome that easily or over night.
The installation and upfront costs of the L.I kits are frightening...
The savings are significant, on a Falcon averaging 30,000 k's per year mostly city use the costs are about:

Petrol @9.5l/100k's @$1.35/l = $3847 PA
LPG @16l/100k's @$.045/l = $2160 PA

A saving of $1687 per year... i don't particularly want the usual suspects challenging my consumption figures because i know they're accurate because i run a couple of each in a fleet situation.

The performance difference between petrol and gas though is significant too...

If your price per litre of LPG was that low in QLD then lots of us would buy the LPG system.
unfortunatly its between $0.67 and $0.82 per litre in QLD while petrol is between $1.24 and $1.34 here in QLD with the 30%loss in km-per litre in older cars it is not worth changing over

[z80]

I run a supercharged V6 on LPG.

Unless you can get under 5.7 seconds in the 0-100km/h then all you see of me is the red diamond logo on my back number plate.

LPG is absolutely outstanding in a forced induction system.

Don't be surprised if the Ford engineers see the point real soon as well.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by vztrt

You mean the 972 people that was quoted?

Oops...I was only looking at the actual poll and looking for totals like our AFF polls!

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by mcnews

Personally, I think LPG is on the way out.

ROFL! You will certainly live to eat those words.

I've read this thread from beginning to end and what not one of you realises is that neither petrol NOR diesel (i.e. oil) will be economically available to private motorists (or most users) within 10 years. Our native energy resource for motor vehicles is natural gas of which Australia still has an abundant supply. Not only will you be looking at LPG, you'll probably be looking at CNG. (Forget electric vehicles, they won't have the range for Australian distances)

One of the strongest things Ford Aus has going for it is its possession of gas technology. If Ford Aus can stay alive for a few years its gas engined vehicles will suddenly be in huge demand. Basically everybody is in a state of stupid denial at the moment about the future of oil, so gas isn't going anywhere. The government fiddles with Toyota's petrol-electric cars instead, but petrol is petrol and it won't be around in a while.

“For a locally produced fuel that Australia holds in plentiful supply, burns cleaner than petrol, offers such savings at the pump, and with both Ford and Holden offering LPG-dedicated vehicles, the underperformance of this sales segment should be alarming both the industry and the Rudd Government,” Mr O’Brien said." Key words.

[PoweredByCNG]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Is that a cylinder or a toroidal tank? The largest one I saw available for the BA sedan was an APA unit at 68 useable litres (85 volumetric litres)

Two cylindrical tanks joined together to form a single manifold tank with a single service valve. The tank is fitted where the petrol tank would have gone and also takes up the spare wheel well. 115L water capacity, 93L LPG capacity in the sedan.

Regards,
Dave

[Iggypoppin']

I just re read my post and sound like a fool...

[prydey]

Originally Posted by PoweredByCNG

to sway the public towards LPG, the manufacturers have to demonstrate that the overall experience of ownership is no different from owning a petrol-only vehicle (e.g. power, economy, reliability, smoothness, practicality). Currently, the only Australian car that comes remotely close to achieving this is the dual fuel Commodore.

gee dave, i'm beginning to think my egas is a freak car going by your constant bagging of it. the practicality is only slightly hindered by the spare wheel as it is a wagon and even with the wheel there it still offers more space than any other wagon on offer. reliability and smoothness, power and economy.. i can't fault them when you consider the purpose for which the car was designed.

i realise the technology is not new but some people carry on like suddenly my bf2 is a smelly, unreliable, rough, impracticle slug, none of which are true. i garauntee you that if i gave many people here a lift without telling them it was lpg, not many would guess it was. it is not a 1/4 mile weapon. its a family wagon. different people want different things from their cars. i get 17L/100km at an ave speed of 35km/h. my ba (yes its not current comparison) used to get 13L/100km at 35km/h ave speed.


getting back to the topic, even many of the replies to this thread show why lpg is struggling to take off. this is supposedly a forum of car enthusiasts and one of the site sponsors is ALPGW. there is a mountain of info on this site regarding liquid injection and many examples now of converted vehicles. sure, even with liquid injection, you will still use slightly more lpg than fuel (10-20%) but the power loss issue is a thing of the past. in many cases, power is actually increased on lpg.

[whales]

One of the problems I see is that the Government are going to add excise to LPG in the next couple of years so it will rise in price to a point of "Is it worth converting" once you add conversion costs, loss of boot space, economy and performance IMO

[PepeLePew]

I could write a essay on why I like LPG on my cars. I was nervous even thinking about it. The rebate, my excessive km's, and its love of the turbo is what sold me. Most of all, the turbo. But once I was in, the Terri soon followed. I spin the joys of my LPG existence daily, but I dont note all my mates converting. The Aussie public around me has too much fear and misunderstanding of the fuel, and the things in their faces (e-gas, mixed experiences of aftermarket conversions, LACK of knowledge of the newer systems) more than override my meanderings.

The LPG industry doesnt help itself. Its lousy at promoting the newer technologies and how much better they are. And is anybody listening and believing with the mixed reputation of the industry? The lack of regulation in installers is a nightmare. Mainstream manufacturers (Ford/Holden to be clear) offering quality new breed systems will go a long way to changing that perceptions. Salesmen throwing the keys to people not looking for LPG and the subsequent drive experience will help educate people better than anything the aftermarket can say anyway.....

I said all that but Im still waiting for this thread to turn into a LI vs SVI vs Mixer as its threatening to....

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by PoweredByCNG

Two cylindrical tanks joined together to form a single manifold tank with a single service valve. The tank is fitted where the petrol tank would have gone and also takes up the spare wheel well. 115L water capacity, 93L LPG capacity in the sedan.

Regards,
Dave

So - if they just used one tank, ie the one fitted in place of the petrol tank, how large would it be?

Originally Posted by whales

One of the problems I see is that the Government are going to add excise to LPG in the next couple of years so it will rise in price to a point of "Is it worth converting" once you add conversion costs, loss of boot space, economy and performance IMO

I don't see it as an issue purely because the average muppet on the street wouldn't even know the excise is coming. By the time the excise has been implemented to LPG in full, petrol will probably be up around $2.50 per litre by then.

[Mr Hardware]

gee dave, i'm beginning to think my egas is a freak car going by your constant bagging of it.

Ignore the troll, he's a card-carrying e-gas hater. To him it's all theory and no practical, like proclaiming there's nothing wrong with a LED fuel guage.

many of the replies to this thread show why lpg is struggling to take off

quite right, and they can be put in the four main myth categories of which i outlined on page 1. the only legitimate downside to LPG is the space for the tank issue, of which most people overestimate grossly. I recently went on a week-long road trip with the good wife and managed to fit all our luggage in the boot of my cylinder-tanked AU without a hitch.

[gtfpv]

so much complete BS here on the old mixer system being terrible rubbish . they simply arew not . i've had them for 20 years now on 3 different ford each getting over 400 000kms . with hardly any engine maintenance whatsoever . i've towed boats , driven in all weather , thrashed etc etc . had way less problems than you would expect on petrol .