Australian Media Coverage of Ford - Worldwide Context

BAFrod · 18-09-2012, 08:54 PM

Just read this article about Ford (specifically Lincoln) that puts the Australian media's recent coverage of Ford in contrast to the media in both North America and Europe. He calls the Aussie media an "outspoken bunch of yobbos with no background in business or engineering." If that's any indication, it's worth a read:

http://carsales.mobi/news/2012/ford/...-lincoln-32475

Apologies to those on desktop computers, if someone can post the link to the normal URL, cheers.

FPV GTHO · 18-09-2012, 09:38 PM

His criticisms of the inline 6 smack of the pot calling the kettle black given his other criticisms of local media.

tranquilized · 18-09-2012, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

His criticisms of the inline 6 smack of the pot calling the kettle black given his other criticisms of local media.

Couldn't have put it better myself.

I have no problem with his idea of using Australia to design and build a premium RWD sedan, but to shoot off such misguided and incorrect criticisms on the I6, after just having accused his fellow aussie media of having no background in engineering...

kinda funny really.

jpd80 · 18-09-2012, 10:43 PM

An ancient I-6 that out torques the Commodore's 3.6 V6 and an Ecoboost 2.0 that outpoints the 3.0 SIDI on performance and economy...
I must be missing something.........

mik · 18-09-2012, 10:57 PM

heh, he`s a funny boy the "indigenous and ancient" remark, the F6 would give Anything they have in the local line up a run for it`s money.

phillyc · 18-09-2012, 11:11 PM

It's an Australian journalist called Ken Gratton. He is giving the Falcon and Ford Australia more positive press than anyone else currently.

The comment about the 4.0 being from the dreamtime was not an attack. He actually likes the engine from previous reviews. The length of the motor does cause design issues.

Ken is theorising that the huge investment and design capabilities of Ford Australia are or will be exploited for Lincoln products.

Do people honestly think RWD 2.0 Ecoboost developed in the Falcon was really just for it or Mustang?

IDT · 19-09-2012, 12:38 AM

i think its a pretty good article. At least it provides a futrue for FordAU.

If Ford were to develop an aussie car that went up against the 335I Coupe in quality, power, handling and looks at FPV prices I would buy one in a heart beat... Imagine how sweet would it be if Ford Oz really did have a go at doing a competitor to BMW 3 series, be it from the ground up or even if it was a refined Mustang underneath.

That would be something for Ford Oz to grin about and a massive smack in the face for the all knowing Australian motoring journos.

Moby Vic · 19-09-2012, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phillyc

The comment about the 4.0 being from the dreamtime

That's hilarious!

I6DOHC · 19-09-2012, 06:23 AM

He's right about one thing in that BMW have developed a premium model with an Inline 6. Mercedes Benz are (rumoured?) to be considering a return to the same configuration in the near future. Packaging concerns seem to be sorted out for them.

Is it out of the realms of possibility that if you were seriously considering taking them on in the same market space you would not consider the benefits the I6 layout brings? As MIK says above, there is nothing in the ford world that can lay a feather on the true potential of the Barra I6, it already keeps the premium brands honest.

The Yanks still had an I6 up until the late 90's....(admittedly in their F trucks), so it not beyond the entire realm of possibilty they could build them again in limited numbers for Lincoln...is it?

DRU842 · 19-09-2012, 07:50 AM

I too don't think he is bagging the I6 either but if the call is having FOA survive as a manufacturer by dropping the I6 for this type of plan, I'm for it.

Nikked · 19-09-2012, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRU842

I too don't think he is bagging the I6 either but if the call is having FOA survive as a manufacturer by dropping the I6 for this type of plan, I'm for it.

Thats it, get the plant to build some V6's or EcoBoost 4's here...something relevent to the world.

Wretched · 19-09-2012, 08:36 AM

well written article.
he doesn't just stick the boot in but is highlighting possibilities. I don't agree with everything but it was a good read.

**Mesa** · 19-09-2012, 08:39 PM

Good article.

Bossxr8 · 19-09-2012, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I6DOHC

He's right about one thing in that BMW have developed a premium model with an Inline 6. Mercedes Benz are (rumoured?) to be considering a return to the same configuration in the near future. Packaging concerns seem to be sorted out for them.

Is it out of the realms of possibility that if you were seriously considering taking them on in the same market space you would not consider the benefits the I6 layout brings? As MIK says above, there is nothing in the ford world that can lay a feather on the true potential of the Barra I6, it already keeps the premium brands honest.

The Yanks still had an I6 up until the late 90's....(admittedly in their F trucks), so it not beyond the entire realm of possibilty they could build them again in limited numbers for Lincoln...is it?

Its no rumour, MB have already confirmed their V6 is dead and the I6 will replace it. They could never get the V6 to be the engine they wanted it to be, and it was never a patch on their old I6. Hence they have given up on it and want to go back to the straight 6. Ever since they went V6 they have been 2nd fiddle to the BMW 6.

The bad part is that Lincoln have said they will continue with FWD/AWD platforms for the foreseeable future. Never say never but it doesn't look likely that FoA will have anything to do with a Lincoln. Would be good though.

tranquilized · 19-09-2012, 11:58 PM

Having read it again, I tend to agree with some of the later posts here, and maybe he isn't critisizing the I6 to the degree I first thought. Its just not that clear the way its written. This part in particular;

Quote:

Seriously... who builds cars with inline sixes anymore? And surely any company building a car with a long engine like that doesn't give two hoots about handling, steering or roadholding?

Well actually, there is a company that builds a car like that. And it's a company that cares about vehicle dynamics... very much. It's a German company named BMW. Its 3 Series sedan has been the yardstick for small prestige sedans for years, but it's a car that's gradually growing in size to reach a larger market share. GM division Cadillac has an answer to it, named the ATS (pictured). But Ford has nothing along the same lines.

Ok so the section in bold is a bit of sarcasm, but I missed that first time. I'm sure it would give some people the bizarre idea that a long engine somehow means bad handling and steering.

This whole thing about the poor packaging offered by an I6 engine is only true if you want a FWD car, or the car to be as small as possible. BMW have no problems packaging an I6, and have a look at some of the exotic roadsters out there from Mercedes Benz, BMW, Ferrari - massively long hoods that could accommodate an I8! As long as the engine is behind the front axle line there isn't an issue with how long it is. Unfortunately in the Falcon the I6 is on top of the front axle, not behind it... but thats another discussion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Its no rumour, MB have already confirmed their V6 is dead and the I6 will replace it. They could never get the V6 to be the engine they wanted it to be, and it was never a patch on their old I6. Hence they have given up on it and want to go back to the straight 6. Ever since they went V6 they have been 2nd fiddle to the BMW 6.

Yep MB I6 is definitely confirmed, and why not? An I6 is an inherently superior configuration over a V6 - except of course if you want a 6 cylinder engine in a FWD econobox.

jpd80 · 19-09-2012, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Its no rumour, MB have already confirmed their V6 is dead and the I6 will replace it. They could never get the V6 to be the engine they wanted it to be, and it was never a patch on their old I6. Hence they have given up on it and want to go back to the straight 6. Ever since they went V6 they have been 2nd fiddle to the BMW 6.

The bad part is that Lincoln have said they will continue with FWD/AWD platforms for the foreseeable future. Never say never but it doesn't look likely that FoA will have anything to do with a Lincoln. Would be good though.

Not at all, the budget was $1 billion spread across seven new or heavily refreshed products.

We know MKZ and MKS are staying, MKT is the town car and livery vehicle,
Escape based small SUV will join the MKX and a new Navigator is planned,
that only leaved the Aviator (Explorer)....that makes seven.

I don't see any other vehicles on the horizon.... a Lincoln based Mustang is a long shot but would be welcome..

Buntz · 20-09-2012, 01:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

An ancient I-6 that out torques the Commodore's 3.6 V6 and an Ecoboost 2.0 that outpoints the 3.0 SIDI on performance and economy...
I must be missing something.........

I think you could say it out torques just about every petrol 6 cylinder on the market today. Except perhaps for a small amount of tuned versions for boutique sports cars.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRU842

I too don't think he is bagging the I6 either but if the call is having FOA survive as a manufacturer by dropping the I6 for this type of plan, I'm for it.

I've been saying it for time now, and others here have too. If the Falcon lives, it will most likely be, without the venerable I6. It will be a price to pay for keeping a RWD sedan. We will gain from it, passable replacements from Ford, and can finally have proper "dual exhausts" on six cylinder models.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Its no rumour, MB have already confirmed their V6 is dead and the I6 will replace it. They could never get the V6 to be the engine they wanted it to be, and it was never a patch on their old I6. Hence they have given up on it and want to go back to the straight 6. Ever since they went V6 they have been 2nd fiddle to the BMW 6.

The bad part is that Lincoln have said they will continue with FWD/AWD platforms for the foreseeable future. Never say never but it doesn't look likely that FoA will have anything to do with a Lincoln. Would be good though.

Boss, do you have a link for that MB I6 information?

I6's are starting to make a comeback. And BMW are sort of seen as trend setters in this regard.

Localising weight is the only benefit of the V6, otherwise Nissan would not have changed to one from their own very powerful I6.

As regards the article, the guy comes across as a bit of a nitwit. But he isn't saying what hasn't already been said here on this forum. In fact, it's probably where he got his story from.

RASER · 20-09-2012, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Its no rumour, MB have already confirmed their V6 is dead and the I6 will replace it. They could never get the V6 to be the engine they wanted it to be, and it was never a patch on their old I6. Hence they have given up on it and want to go back to the straight 6. Ever since they went V6 they have been 2nd fiddle to the BMW 6.

The bad part is that Lincoln have said they will continue with FWD/AWD platforms for the foreseeable future. Never say never but it doesn't look likely that FoA will have anything to do with a Lincoln. Would be good though.

For too long the market has focused too much on the type/size of the engine, ie more/bigger is better

As the auto world is changing so fast, the new black is downsizing, ie ecoboost

I have seen the twin cylinder FIAT 500 and its perfect for the application and you would not want for more in real world use, its the most frugal ULP vehicle [non hybrid] on the Aussie market, very clean too.

Same for Ford with the EB 3cyl. job the have just made

Forget V6, IL6, etc, who cares, all that matters are the figures it shows, MPG/CO2/ and similar real-world performance and safety required for todays roads

Of course we still need to keep our enthusiast market of V8/V10/V12's etc, but its small % in the total scheme of things

aussie muscle · 20-09-2012, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BluFGXR6

Good article.

Yes, but i would given it a lot more weight had it been written by an American journalist.

Road_Warrior · 20-09-2012, 06:09 PM

All Ken Gratton was doing was being brutally honest. Regardless of what happens to the Falcon after this current platform cycle, the I6 doesnt play a part in that plan. It is an orphan engine, whose job can be done just as well as corporate V6's from the Cyclone engine family (D37). And as far as the torque deficit goes, we're talking a NM deficiency count in the tens, not hundreds. A small price to pay when you consider the amount of tech and efficiency the D37 can bring to the table in a next gen Falcon over the I6. And then there is the economies of scale from using engines from engine plants that churn out 500,000 of them per year, FoA not having to do it's own R&D on the 6 cylinder engine any more (and fund it) the obvious export synergies had from using a corporate global engine, and of course design of the car itself that doesn't have to have a long front overhang, a recess in the firewall and the radiator support module just to accommodate the I6.

PS - I have owned every iteration of the Falcon's I6 and I love it dearly. I'll weep when it is killed off. And I'll buy one of the last XR6 Turbos with one in it

FPV GTHO · 20-09-2012, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

I think you could say it out torques just about every petrol 6 cylinder on the market today.

On what basis do you want to say this?

On a level platform, the D37 in the Mustang is just as capable as the Barra195 on a Nm/L scale.

Bossxr8 · 20-09-2012, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

Boss, do you have a link for that MB I6 information?

I6's are starting to make a comeback. And BMW are sort of seen as trend setters in this regard.

This is the best I could do. Can't find the one I was referring too.

http://www.caradvice.com.au/143292/m...t-six-engines/

Buntz · 21-09-2012, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

This is the best I could do. Can't find the one I was referring too.

http://www.caradvice.com.au/143292/m...t-six-engines/

Cheers Boss

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

On what basis do you want to say this?

On a level platform, the D37 in the Mustang is just as capable as the Barra195 on a Nm/L scale.

Still out torques it. Though the D37's figures are probably based off of American Fire Water 88 octane.

But I can't find any figures on it for their premium - our regular - but you may have won this argument (if you can find 91 octane figures)

FPV GTHO · 21-09-2012, 08:57 AM

American fuel isn't RON.

turboxf · 22-09-2012, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Not at all, the budget was $1 billion spread across seven new or heavily refreshed products.

We know MKZ and MKS are staying, MKT is the town car and livery vehicle,
Escape based small SUV will join the MKX and a new Navigator is planned,
that only leaved the Aviator (Explorer)....that makes seven.

I don't see any other vehicles on the horizon.... a Lincoln based Mustang is a long shot but would be welcome..

There have been a lot of renderings lately of RWD Lincoln MKF concepts , plus isn't the new Lincoln designer in NA an aussie that is making the MKZ more Lincoln than FORD ??????

turboxf · 22-09-2012, 12:34 AM

I found some interesting articles on this site about everything Lincoln !!!!!

Click on a few to get the latest at what to expect in the near future ?????

http://www.carbuzz.com/Lincoln_news/

turboxf · 22-09-2012, 01:16 AM

Looking at both the MKS & MKZ the MKZ looks more luxury in design , than it's bigger brother the MKS ?????????

Moby Vic · 22-09-2012, 01:28 AM

The MKZ has just been restyled. And it's in a higher-volume segment.

jpd80 · 22-09-2012, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

All Ken Gratton was doing was being brutally honest. Regardless of what happens to the Falcon after this current platform cycle, the I6 doesnt play a part in that plan. It is an orphan engine, whose job can be done just as well as corporate V6's from the Cyclone engine family (D37). And as far as the torque deficit goes, we're talking a NM deficiency count in the tens, not hundreds. A small price to pay when you consider the amount of tech and efficiency the D37 can bring to the table in a next gen Falcon over the I6. And then there is the economies of scale from using engines from engine plants that churn out 500,000 of them per year, FoA not having to do it's own R&D on the 6 cylinder engine any more (and fund it) the obvious export synergies had from using a corporate global engine, and of course design of the car itself that doesn't have to have a long front overhang, a recess in the firewall and the radiator support module just to accommodate the I6.

PS - I have owned every iteration of the Falcon's I6 and I love it dearly. I'll weep when it is killed off. And I'll buy one of the last XR6 Turbos with one in it

IMO, by 2016 today's large capacity V6s and I-6s in large cars will be unsellable and I have a feeling that,
a large car will need to have engines roughly one step up from what the US Fusion provides now.
Now whether that flies in the face of what is being developed for next gen Taurus is key,
can the Falcon continue to evolve efficiently and saving tons of money by using many of
those unseen "One Ford" parts to keep the project viable and of worth to other regions...

So there's no point looking at large V6s available now, I think the key is to look at emerging tech
that will keep Falcon fresh and viable to the market, stuff like 8-speed auto transmissions and
engines in sizes that consumers want to buy, be that a lusty I-6 or an efficient Ecoboost or a V8.

What ever is decided, you can bet that the post 2016 vehicle will be stuffed full of the same
options available on Ford's global cars, no more feeling like we're being left behind.

nitro50th · 22-09-2012, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

PS - I have owned every iteration of the Falcon's I6 and I love it dearly. I'll weep when it is killed off. And I'll buy one of the last XR6 Turbos with one in it

It'll be an instant classic!!!!

Sorry, off topic.