Insurance Bodywork Failure

Brodes · 24-05-2022, 02:15 AM

Guys,

Please have a look at these images and tell me if you would accept the shade difference between the bumper and the body back from a repairer? Also please tell me if you know under what measurement parameters and values are used to determine what is acceptable for colour difference on a vehicle's panels?

This is the result of hail damage repair from Aussie Hail's Adelaide set up who SGIC assigned to repair our FG XR6T. When I got it back I did have a few other issues which they thankfully repaired no problem, and the rest of the body work and paint job they did looks great, however all the "plastics" where not re-painted which is no problem, however the colour matching is terrible and it now looks like a car that's been repaired with the bumpers, skirts, spoiler, etc. having been thrown on from a faded wreck.
After their re-assessment they confirm to me that it is a different shade, but that their assessor deemed this difference to be normal and that most other cars have a slightly different shade on the plastic body parts, I strongly disagree that any new car comes with shades this different.
I'm still fighting this one ATM and would like to know what you think and if anyone who has been through similar to offer advise.

Citroënbender · 24-05-2022, 03:19 AM

Respective to the current and projected value of the car, I would be pushing back, too. It’s just a little too different.

**aussiblue** · 24-05-2022, 04:05 AM

It is certainly not good enough with very distinct colour differences.

prktkljokr · 24-05-2022, 09:23 AM

Most plastic bumpers will give you a different shade of colour, it is a known fact in the industry, we get it on a daily basis at work where the customer points out a different bumper shade to a repair, we just show them the other bumper difference on their own car if we only did one, or if we did both, we show them other cars we did not touch to show them this is also a factory issue.
Being a repair through a insurer, it will more than likely be a rapid repair where the repairer is allocated a set amount per vehicle to get jobs done, yours would be one of hundreds that need to be repaired in this budget price, so they dont spend a hour to mix and match to save money per job, and when the colour is close they just blend into adjoining panels, you may find they have already blended the bumper edges to what the guard is, the variation may just be because of the 2 different materials that are painted over.

Cut and pasted from the net

Have you ever noticed that the colour of the paint on your bumper seems to be different than the colour of the paint on the rest of the vehicle? Here’s why:

First – some basic vehicle anatomy: for the vast majority of vehicles, the bumpers are made out of plastic and the rest of the vehicle is made out of metal.

When you lay the same paint on plastic vs metal, you get different results. There’s a couple different reasons why that is.

The first reason is because the heat dissipation on plastic is slower than it is on metal, which means that it’s going to take longer to dry. This gives the metal flakes in the paint more time to rearrange differently. Also, plastic holds more static electricity than metal panels do, which – again – allows for the metal particles to rearrange. Another consideration is the contour of the plastic panels. Bumpers typically have many more contour points than the more flat metal panels, and this can give the illusion that it’s a different shade or colour depending on lighting.

The manufacturer attaches what’s called a paint code to each VIN so the exact same paint can be used each time. When you get your vehicle repaired, the body shop will use this paint code to mix paint to match the rest of the paint on your vehicle.

This colour variation on bumpers isn’t just seen on vehicles that are repaired or repainted. Go to any new car dealership and you’ll see it there, too. It’s more obvious with some colours, especially metallic colours, and especially “pearl white” paint.

BENT_8 · 24-05-2022, 10:47 AM

Not good but on the bright side at least you've had it repaired, we're 7 months in and counting from the same hail storm damage to our Ranger with no end or roof skin in sight.
We have our SGIC case in the hands of AFCA as we speak.

Quote:

Originally Posted by prktkljokr

Being a repair through a insurer, it will more than likely be a rapid repair where the repairer is allocated a set amount per vehicle to get jobs done, yours would be one of hundreds that need to be repaired in this budget price

Thats an understatement actually, in reality its thousands.
Take a drive through their assessment and repair centre at the old GMH plant and its a real eye opener as to how many vehicles and caravans got significantly damaged in the hail event.

arm79 · 24-05-2022, 12:37 PM

A couple of stories to consider.

1. When I bought my FPV all the plastics were a different colour to the body panels. The car was painted Ego and at that time it was about 15 months old and had spent all of its time in a garage. The plastics all had a green tinge to them. It was like the panels all were grey and the plastics were a weird shade of army green.

I lodged a warranty claim, to which Ford ran with the standard "plastics will always be different" compared to a panel shop which said it was just a crap job.

I argued and argued for months until I got my way. One way day the dealer called and said "claim has been approved".

Got the car back and the bumpers were an absolute perfect match to the metal panels. They never blended any part of the metal, just got the paint on the plastics to match.

Moral of the story, it can be made to match if they care and bother to take the time.

I did found out later that either the plastics or undercoat was a mustard colour, cant remember which. Either the undercoat wasn't thick enough to hide the plastic or the paint wasn't thick enough to hide the undercoat and/or plastic.

2. Mum's Corolla was involved in a minor side swipe. Needed a new drivers door and repair damage to the rocker panel. Got the car back and the paint didn't match the rest of the car. They painted the door and front guard a shade lighter and with a different metallic. Didn't match the bumper, bonnet, back door or door handles.

Took it back to complain and got the "oh, we only get so long to do this and that and were only allowed to paint this and that. The end".

So I complained to their manager and AAMI. I was told it was our eyesight, the rest of the car needed a polish to match, its how it is, blah, blah. Other panel shops said it was a crap job and it didn't even match the paint chip their paint supplier handed to me to compare.

So I complained again and weeks later I was told a rep from the paint company, Valspar, would come and check out the paint to see why it didn't match. Their paint system always gave a perfect match, apparently...

Dropped the car off and was called in to pick it up 4 days later. Turns out the Valspar rep couldn't make it, so the fu*king morons just decided to paint the whole side of the car the same wrong shade with wrong metallic. Now it didn't match either bumper, boot, bonnet, roof or door handles. They couldn't understand why we were upset.

Months of arguing with AAMI they approved a rectification through another local shop who used PPG paints.

Got the car back and the repainted sides were a perfect match to the other metal panels and the door handles, with only a very slight difference to the bumpers, but no worse and probably better than before. There was no blending done across other panels.

Moral of this story, proper matching can be done with a bit of care and bother. And don't go anywhere that doesn't use PPG paints.

2 or 3 months after Mum's car was rectified it got damaged again, this time the whole drivers side. Should have seen the panel shop guys face drop when I bought it back to have the whole side of the car sprayed again.

But they sanded it and matched it to perfection again.

Your problem could be a little from point 1 and point 2.

But I'm sure your PDS will say they will repair your car to the same standard and condition as it was prior to the incident. If it had a decent match prior then you should expect it comes back the same, but allowing for minor variations, which yours definitely isn't.

Remind them they have devalued your car and not maintained their promise as set out in their contract with you.

In my experience it shows it can be matched properly if someone puts in a little time and effort. I can understand slight variations in mass production, but if that's how you received your brand new car I'm sure you'd knock it back on delivery.

So fight and keep pushing. It can be done. Just know you are in for a bit of a fight.

We only take our cars to this guy now and his painter has never disappointed. Cars have always come back perfect.

**FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0** · 24-05-2022, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prktkljokr

Most plastic bumpers will give you a different shade of colour, it is a known fact in the industry, we get it on a daily basis at work where the customer points out a different bumper shade to a repair, we just show them the other bumper difference on their own car if we only did one, or if we did both, we show them other cars we did not touch to show them this is also a factory issue.
Being a repair through a insurer, it will more than likely be a rapid repair where the repairer is allocated a set amount per vehicle to get jobs done, yours would be one of hundreds that need to be repaired in this budget price, so they dont spend a hour to mix and match to save money per job, and when the colour is close they just blend into adjoining panels, you may find they have already blended the bumper edges to what the guard is, the variation may just be because of the 2 different materials that are painted over.

Cut and pasted from the net

Have you ever noticed that the colour of the paint on your bumper seems to be different than the colour of the paint on the rest of the vehicle? Here’s why:

First – some basic vehicle anatomy: for the vast majority of vehicles, the bumpers are made out of plastic and the rest of the vehicle is made out of metal.

When you lay the same paint on plastic vs metal, you get different results. There’s a couple different reasons why that is.

The first reason is because the heat dissipation on plastic is slower than it is on metal, which means that it’s going to take longer to dry. This gives the metal flakes in the paint more time to rearrange differently. Also, plastic holds more static electricity than metal panels do, which – again – allows for the metal particles to rearrange. Another consideration is the contour of the plastic panels. Bumpers typically have many more contour points than the more flat metal panels, and this can give the illusion that it’s a different shade or colour depending on lighting.

The manufacturer attaches what’s called a paint code to each VIN so the exact same paint can be used each time. When you get your vehicle repaired, the body shop will use this paint code to mix paint to match the rest of the paint on your vehicle.

This colour variation on bumpers isn’t just seen on vehicles that are repaired or repainted. Go to any new car dealership and you’ll see it there, too. It’s more obvious with some colours, especially metallic colours, and especially “pearl white” paint.

So, out of interest, based on your experience, would you assess the repair job identified above as being adequate or do you think it is still sub-standard and that the OP should pursue this further? Not trying to put you on the spot, just interested to understand what your take on it is given your views above.

prydey · 24-05-2022, 01:36 PM

Insurance companies and panel beaters often trot out the same standard response, plastics will always be different yada yada yada..

My argument is, you should be getting the car back the same or better than prior to the repairs. That's why you pay a premium for insurance.
The whole 'plastics are different thing' is a cop out.

I have 2 similar stories.

I had a FG xr6 in seduce. I hit a roo and needed the front 1/4 repaired. I had to sign off on the car when picking it up. It was bright sunshine and it looked fantastic. Got it home and in the shade of the carport it looked like your car. Seduce is a pearl colour and the base is quite a dark maroon. Showed it to a few other people over the next few days and they thought I was being pedantic. Long story short it started to look different even in the sun so I took it back. They started saying the usual stuff about plastic and the painter went and got the original swatch from when they did the car, which thankfully they still had. Put it up against the bumper and it was now clearly different. No more discussion. They agreed to repaint it. Not sure what the reason was for the original job changing colour but the second job held colour until I sold the car years later. Don't give in to their stories. Obviously your case is different as the bumpers weren't done but if it's worse than before then it needs fixing. That's the whole point of insurance.

2nd story was a bf2 wagon I had that the rear bumper was resprayed due to car park damage. It was white. I made them redo that about 5 times before I was happy. They kept trying to use the plastic v metal argument but I just pointed out the other plastic parts on the car that happened to match quite well.

Again, repairs are about getting it back to how it was. End of story. If it matched before then it must be repaired that way. That's why you pay for insurance.

prktkljokr · 24-05-2022, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

So, out of interest, based on your experience, would you assess the repair job identified above as being adequate or do you think it is still sub-standard and that the OP should pursue this further? Not trying to put you on the spot, just interested to understand what your take on it is given your views above.

You do have to remember that the panel shop is paid to only repair the damage, they are not going to paint the whole car so it looks like day 1 again, the panel that was damaged has been painted and the bumper which needed no repair is left in its years old condition.

We have to remember that the bumper is original paint, it has been in the sun, rain, has sand, rocks, bugs hitting it, been washed and polished ??? times and is how many years old, the fender is new paint, you will see a difference.

To me it looks more like the bumper has been polished to the point where the paint is thin and possibly see through which gives it a different hue to the new fresh painted fender, but pretty hard to tell on a computer monitor.

At the end of the day if the OP is not satisfied with the job he should seek rectification, he will be met with the plastic bumpers will show a different colour and the difference between new and old sun damaged paint, but if he insists they will paint the bumper to match and the insurance company will foot the bill.

**Mont5.0** · 24-05-2022, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brodes

Guys,

Please have a look at these images and tell me if you would accept the shade difference between the bumper and the body back from a repairer? Also please tell me if you know under what measurement parameters and values are used to determine what is acceptable for colour difference on a vehicle's panels?

This is the result of hail damage repair from Aussie Hail's Adelaide set up who SGIC assigned to repair our FG XR6T. When I got it back I did have a few other issues which they thankfully repaired no problem, and the rest of the body work and paint job they did looks great, however all the "plastics" where not re-painted which is no problem, however the colour matching is terrible and it now looks like a car that's been repaired with the bumpers, skirts, spoiler, etc. having been thrown on from a faded wreck.
After their re-assessment they confirm to me that it is a different shade, but that their assessor deemed this difference to be normal and that most other cars have a slightly different shade on the plastic body parts, I strongly disagree that any new car comes with shades this different.
I'm still fighting this one ATM and would like to know what you think and if anyone who has been through similar to offer advise.

got any photos of the car out in the sun? a whole front end pic would be good.

I have similar discrepancies with one of my cars, never been repaired or repainted. outside, no one can tell. inside looks just like yours.

prydey · 24-05-2022, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prktkljokr

You do have to remember that the panel shop is paid to only repair the damage, they are not going to paint the whole car so it looks like day 1 again, the panel that was damaged has been painted and the bumper which needed no repair is left in its years old condition.

We have to remember that the bumper is original paint, it has been in the sun, rain, has sand, rocks, bugs hitting it, been washed and polished ??? times and is how many years old, the fender is new paint, you will see a difference.

To me it looks more like the bumper has been polished to the point where the paint is thin and possibly see through which gives it a different hue to the new fresh painted fender, but pretty hard to tell on a computer monitor.

At the end of the day if the OP is not satisfied with the job he should seek rectification, he will be met with the plastic bumpers will show a different colour and the difference between new and old sun damaged paint, but if he insists they will paint the bumper to match and the insurance company will foot the bill.

Another question...

If the car came in to the shop with matching bumper to panel, are they obliged to return it to the customer in the same condition?

prktkljokr · 24-05-2022, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

Another question...

If the car came in to the shop with matching bumper to panel, are they obliged to return it to the customer in the same condition?

Seeing we cant fade or wear paint, the short answer is no, if you jump up and down enough the insurance company will just give in and paint the extra part to match.

The repairer is only paid to repair the part, they are not there to recondition all surrounding parts

We are repairers and are human, not magicians, paint can be a easy match or a hard match, there are many variables when you re-paint a panel, if I paint a metallic bumper on a stand it will look different than if I had painted it on the car, angles of view can give you different effects and colour variations, pearl colours are the worst.

Next time you are at a shopping centre have a look around at the new cars out there and you will be amazed how rough they really are, colour and bumper fit is bad on a fair percentage, and lighter colours show the worst.

prydey · 24-05-2022, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prktkljokr

Seeing we cant fade or wear paint, the short answer is no, if you jump up and down enough the insurance company will just give in and paint the extra part to match.

The repairer is only paid to repair the part, they are not there to recondition all surrounding parts

We are repairers and are human, not magicians, paint can be a easy match or a hard match, there are many variables when you re-paint a panel, if I paint a metallic bumper on a stand it will look different than if I had painted it on the car, angles of view can give you different effects and colour variations, pearl colours are the worst.

Next time you are at a shopping centre have a look around at the new cars out there and you will be amazed how rough they really are, colour and bumper fit is bad on a fair percentage, and lighter colours show the worst.

So if a car drives in matching, and drives out not matching, that's the customers fault for needing a repair? At least the panel shop that did my car understood I wanted it returned the same as it went in.

To me, it's not a question of whether or not other cars have mismatched panels. It's about giving a customer his car back the same as how it went in.

I'd be interested in seeing a full car pic of the OP's car. Also a pic outside would be good as well. Metal and plastic have different reflective properties so would be influenced differently from the surroundings in the carport. If the rest of the car has been blended in quite well then it might just be worth negotiating for a bumper respray if they won't fix it under the original repair.

prktkljokr · 24-05-2022, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

So if a car drives in matching, and drives out not matching, that's the customers fault for needing a repair?

Didnt say it is the customers fault, the customer has to understand that you cant make new paint look old and worn (which is what it would have been), you will always see the difference between new and old, the new paint is more vibrant and the reflection is different than old paint, you cant expect the repairer that is only paid to paint the repaired part to then make everything around it the same, where does he stop and who is going to pay for it?.

Its called wear and tear, give it 6 months out in the sun and you wont pick the difference.

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

At least the panel shop that did my car understood I wanted it returned the same as it went in.

They would have contacted the insurer and the insurer would have paid to rectify, so technically a new job for the repairer.

Insurance companies will only pay for what they have to and even then they will try to slash money from the repair, if you knew how rapid repair works you would feel sorry for the repairer for what he has to do just to make ends meet, thats why when you complain they will be hesitant until the insurer comes to the party with the money to rectify, then they bend over backwards for you.

Not all but most people would not have a clue if their car colour matched before or not, but a lot are experts after a repair

prydey · 24-05-2022, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prktkljokr

Not all but most people would not have a clue if their car colour matched before or not, but a lot are experts after a repair

Well, the OP did. What a hassle for the repairer that they have to match a colour rather than just spray what comes out of the tin.

I'm a printer. I look at colour all day every day. Thankfully the repairer I used was humble enough to admit the colour had changed and resprayed it for me. No contact with insurance. It's not the insurance companies fault the repairer didn't get it right the first time.

Thanks to that his business gets my recommendation whenever someone asks for a good panel shop.

We all know how hard it is to find decent workmanship these days.

ford12 · 24-05-2022, 09:36 PM

Just don't take no for an answer.

They will rip you as soon as you let them.

Complain, complain and complain some more.

Don't give up and you will get it fixed.

arm79 · 24-05-2022, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prktkljokr

The repairer is only paid to repair the part, they are not there to recondition all surrounding parts

We are repairers and are human, not magicians, paint can be a easy match or a hard match, there are many variables when you re-paint a panel, if I paint a metallic bumper on a stand it will look different than if I had painted it on the car, angles of view can give you different effects and colour variations, pearl colours are the worst.

I don't think anyone is having a dig at you. It's more surprise that the industry overall seems to think that's acceptable. There's no pushback to ensure the customer receives what we'd consider an adequate job.

Like what the panel shop did to Mum's Corolla. I wish I could find the pics to show. The repair was terrible and stood out like dogs balls. It devalued the car. But the repairer couldn't see the problem with what they did.

It just makes it worse when shop A can do a stellar job under the same conditions that shop B works under.

Quote:

Originally Posted by prktkljokr

Insurance companies will only pay for what they have to and even then they will try to slash money from the repair, if you knew how rapid repair works you would feel sorry for the repairer for what he has to do just to make ends meet, thats why when you complain they will be hesitant until the insurer comes to the party with the money to rectify, then they bend over backwards for you.

I understand panel shops work within the bounds of what they are paid and the insurance company will screw them anyway possible.

But as I said before, I'd expect the panel shop to push back and say "no, we need to do this" to do an adequate job. It is the panel shops reputation after all.

In the case of the one that did Mum's car, if anyone asks me where they should go I make sure they don't visit that shop. Because they are nothing by trouble in the end.

I also understood from AAMI that the shop that did Mum's car was responsible for the first rectification. So they are out of pocket for respraying the entire side of the car.

When we took it else where to get fixed properly, AAMI would have forcibly claimed back the money paid for the initial spray then additionally charged them for the rectification work done at the second shop. AAMI are never out of pocket, but the first panel should would have been easily out $4000.

So rather than hide behind the various excuses, I would have thought it was in their interest to get it done properly the first time.

prktkljokr · 24-05-2022, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

Well, the OP did. What a hassle for the repairer that they have to match a colour rather than just spray what comes out of the tin.

It IS a hassle to match every colour, there are millions of automotive colours, there are thousands of different variations of the same colour, then there are hundreds of different paint companies and their paint formulas, then there are the different types of paint (2pac, acrylic, water based etc) variations in each different paint companies tinter colours, different metallics, pearls etc, candy colours, 3 stage pearls the list just keeps going on and on, then you have to match it to paint that has who knows what done to it for the last 15 years, wet paint dries different so you have to do spray outs, you have clear over base, some colours that need to be applied in specific stages, so yeah it is a hassle.

I bet they dont have as many combinations in printer ink for you to worry about, and you dont have to repair or spot up any printing damage so variations in colour or types of ink are not a problem for you.

Im sure if the OP takes the car back to the repairer it will be rectified, all I am trying to point out is its not always the repairers fault for variations in colour on a car, there are many different scenarios of what may be the cause.

I think you might be missing my point, when the insurance company sends us a car, they tell us pretty much what to do, if they say paint and repair guard only, thats all it gets and thats all we get paid for, if an adjacent panel has previous damage, previous repairs, paint fade etc, it does not get touched as its not the insurance companies job or ours to make the adjacent parts condition match the new repair, this happens quite regular and have had to fit up previously damaged parts to a new repair as they are not a part of the claim, we also get told to repair only one side of a bumper quite regularly leaving the other side scratched dented etc as its not part of the accident claim.

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

Thankfully the repairer I used was humble enough to admit the colour had changed and resprayed it for me. No contact with insurance. It's not the insurance companies fault the repairer didn't get it right the first time.

Thanks to that his business gets my recommendation whenever someone asks for a good panel shop.

We all know how hard it is to find decent workmanship these days.

Im 100% sure your repairer would have just done a blend into the bumper, they all do when people complain, im sure if you took your bumper off and got someone to re-paint your fender to match your door, your bumper would be a different colour again. then to fix that they would just blend the fender colour into the bumper again to lose the visual difference, if you look when it has full sun light on it you can even see a blend, usually you will see light and dark spots.

A TIP
If you want quality workmanship then dont take your car to a Insurance companies recommended rapid repairer, simple!

prydey · 25-05-2022, 12:12 AM

Well, in my view, good business is largely about reputation and customer service. The 2 stories I mentioned earlier, both companies get my recommendation even though they failed at the first attempt. Both were willing to redo the work until the car looked the same as before it got damaged. It may have cost them in the short term but word of mouth, so to speak, is still king, and they get a good word from me.

It would appear from this thread that many in the industry find sub par work acceptable and blame other factors, all of which are true by the way, to appease their laziness and lack of care to the customer.

Unfortunately that industry is not alone. It took me quite a few different physio's over the years before I found one that actually cared about the patient rather than just going through the motions.

Same with many other things.

Hopefully the OP can get a satisfactory outcome for his car.

prydey · 25-05-2022, 12:16 AM

I must also add that I'm not singling anyone out nor am I suggesting working in that industry is easy or straight forward. I'm sure it's not.

prktkljokr · 25-05-2022, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arm79

I understand panel shops work within the bounds of what they are paid and the insurance company will screw them anyway possible.

But as I said before, I'd expect the panel shop to push back and say "no, we need to do this" to do an adequate job. It is the panel shops reputation after all.

I dont think anyone is having a dig at me personally, we are having a friendly discussion on why the poor OP has a different colour bumper to his fender and the possible causes and remedies for it

I have to state that not all shops are the same, you have shops where they just repair cars for whoever lobs or goes to them on their own and you have rapid repair shops that get fed by the insurers

just to clarify I will explain what a rapid repair shop entails

We are a rapid repair shop we are a large panel shop with 4 large buildings, we have a dedicated panel shop, a dedicated paint shop, we have a large parts building and a mechanical building, we are a recommended repairer for a few of the major insurers and some manufacturers, we have roughly 80 employees, we have roughly 400 customer cars on premises at any one time.

We get fed work by the insurer, in our case its mostly RAC, but there are others we do too, we have a contract with RAC that we will repair every car they send us for $2000, this is only for cars that drive in, now we could have a car with a scratch on the bumper or we can have a car that has the whole side torn open, $2000 is good money for a bumper scratch, but does not even cover parts on the car with the side torn out, some headlights are $3000 on their own, but because of the volume of cars we do it does make profit over the year, any cars that are towed in are quoted at the full rate so we still do jobs that are $10,000 to $50,000 in repairs quite often, we would turn over a easy 20-30 million a year, but just the parts bill would eat most of it .

So as you can imagine everything we do is cut down to the wire to turn a small profit from each job, you might think we are crazy agreeing to a contracted $2000 a car but its not just our shop that does it, there are many in Perth and around Australia, because of this RAC dictates what we make and they feed us the volume it needs to turn a profit.

We do on average 90 cars a week, in this we would have 5- 8 come backs for various problems, some ours, some not, we do the what we call reworks just to keep the customer happy some are paid by RAC as a additional repair due to customer complaining and it not being part of the original repair some we cover ourselves if small.

Now if we pushed back and said no we want more or whatever, the contract would be gone the next day and the place would fold, this is how insurance companies work, they dont care about you just the bottom line, its a "if you dont want to do it for what we say then we will give it to one of the others as they will" attitude and once they take it from you you will never see it again, so you just have to conform to keep getting the work.

Now I would also have to say that the panel industry is the lowest paid section of the automotive industry, panel rates per hour really suck from the insurance company and we have a huge shortage of skilled tradesman, why would you work for $50,000 or less a year when there are non skilled jobs that get $80,000+

Now as you can probably understand to push this sort of volume at this sort of price you would need to make sure that you did not spend any extra time or money on a car than what was necessary and there has to be a order in how things are done.
So we have the estimator who works out what is going to be repaired and what will be replaced, he does a quote, there is a book in guy who takes pictures of the whole car and sets the parts order process off, the parts guy puts small parts in the car and large parts on a trolley that is earmarked for that car, A panel beater will repair the car, then the prep guys prepare the car for paint, the paint matcher mixes the paint, the painter just paints, then it goes to the dedicated fitters who just fits the car back up, then off to polish, then the car is washed and detailed, it is qc'd and parked ready for pick up, all for $2000, its amazing that the process even makes money

We even have a guy who's full time job it is to repair bumpers and plastic

We still have to put out quality work as we have to guarantee all repairs for the life of the car, sometimes we screw up, but when you get out 90 cars with no issues a week that's a good week.

Brodes · 25-05-2022, 02:13 AM

Hi all, thanks for the feedback so far.

So looking at the PDS it states.

Quote:

Undamaged Areas

We don't repair undamaged area of your vehicle to create a uniform appearance.

For example, if the incident causes damage to the right panel, then we will only pay to respray the right panel. We won't pay the cost to respray the rest of the vehicle.

In the event of repairs, we will a fair and reasonable attempt to match the repairs to undamaged areas, using the closest match available...

But with my issue it's not about the undamaged areas, rather the repaired area and effort put into the preparation and colour matching to ensure the panels to be painted are as close as possible to the rest of the vehicle. In our case it seems like there was no care or effort. It is very different to what it was before the repair. It's not just about devaluing it, but also I cringe every time I look at it, not a good thing when it used to be your pride and joy.

I don't have a full body photo sorry as it's still in at the shop.

I've submitted a formal complaint now so I'll see how it goes.

MrEL · 25-05-2022, 08:05 AM

Most of the time the people that complain about the repair job on their car are the same ones that come insurance renewal are chasing around trying to find the lowest price.
If you want top notch work done , pay the extra for a policy with choice of repairer and talk to the shop about your expectations at the start of the process. Don't get a Great Wall policy and expect Bentley repairs.......
When a vehicle goes through a rapid repair shop or the customer is happy with the insurance company having the call on where the car goes , its assumed that you're like 90% of the population where your car is just a tool and providing it looks ok from 20 feet its fine.
It's not the first time I've had a vehicle in the smash repairs and have paid extra on top to get extra painted etc as I've spoken to the estimator as the car went in and asked about how the paint with match etc and they have straight out said it won't be 100% because of age etc and if we go down this path we can get it 98% perfect.
If you work with the repairer from the outset , accept that unfortunately there could be extra stuff to meet your expectations that's not in the insurance agreed scope of works and do a deal at the start , a lot of times it's not that much more cost to have the extra work done while the car is already stripped down , masked up etc on the insurance companies tab.
As I've been told by repairers before , they are paid paint mixing and matching time. It's the same cost for them to mix up 500ml to paint a guard and blend a door or to do a litre to blow the rest of the side in to the shut lines so I just pay for the extra paint and spray time.
Same as they are paid to mask it up. Doesn't make much difference if they are masking half the side on the insurance bill or if they mask the top and back because I'm getting the side done.
People just need to be realistic with their expectations and communicate.
No I'm not in the industry...........

prydey · 25-05-2022, 08:28 AM

Thanks for clearing up the rapid repair shop thing. I'd never heard of it. I'm glad all my policies have choice of repairer.

BENT_8 · 25-05-2022, 01:31 PM

I've often wondered about this aspect of insurance/repairs.
When you start a policy they specifically ask you about any pre existing issues/damage/defects with the car and you answer yes or no.
Thing is, what do they define as issues/damage/defects?

If I own a 10yr old car and its either been washed with a dodgy sponge or polished to thin or even left exposed to the elements and faded do any of the resultant wear and tear fit in the 'issues/damage/defects' bracket?

I mean could their argument be, well the car is 10yr old, you've left it in the sun, polished it too much, used the wrong sponge and the paint has defects, you haven't maintained it properly, then is this grounds to say bad luck if its a mis-match?

**aussiblue** · 25-05-2022, 01:46 PM

So prktkljokr and others what WA insurer will ensure get you a quality repair? I have the RAC and had arguments in the past with them about them screwing down my chosen repairer quotes and insisting on used rather than new parts be used.

GT450 · 25-05-2022, 02:03 PM

A TIP
If you want quality workmanship then dont take your car to a Insurance companies recommended rapid repairer, simple![/QUOTE]

That's the best bit of advice you have given instead of making excuses why a job can't be done properly. If it is possible to fix it at one repairer surely the original can do the same, but they cut corners to make a profit, never mind pride in workmanship.
I , like Prydey, pay for my chosen repairer and i have a good relationship with them over many years and it pays dividends, you get what you pay for.....at least sometimes you do.

prktkljokr · 25-05-2022, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aussiblue

So prktkljokr and others what WA insurer will ensure get you a quality repair? I have the RAC and had arguments in the past with them about them screwing down my chosen repairer quotes and insisting on used rather than new parts be used.

If your car is 5 years or older they can use used parts for panel repair, all suspension or mechanical has to be new no matter how old the car is.

Insurers will always screw your chosen repairers quote, most private repairers over quote anyway, hell its only a insurance company they have plenty of money, we all know a insurance quote will be way more than if you are paying cash.

All insurance companies are not the same, some will just cover the basics and some will cover everything, from what I have seen Shannons dont argue too much, but their premiums reflect this, if you are going to go for the cheapest insurance quote, you are only going to get basic cover.

It boils down to if you have a dent in your door they are only going to fix the door, if your sill, fender, roof, 1/4 panel or other door is a bit chipped and worn they are not going to touch it, just like when they do a blend into a adjacent panel, if it has a dent or chips in it they will just blend over the top as its not a part of the claimed damage and the repair requires a blend they are not paid for any extra's, most people dont understand this and get their knickers in a knot, they jump up and down and whinge but still get nowhere as its just not going to happen, panel shops can not afford to make every car that comes through look like it just came off the showroom floor without compensation.

Quote:

That's the best bit of advice you have given instead of making excuses why a job can't be done properly

I Have not made any excuse why it cant be done properly, just explained why it is not covered, again the OP's damage was repaired and painted, the bumper is not part of the repair it is not paid for by the insurer, the OP can complain and if they feel like it they will rectify or ask him for a portion to rectify, as he has shown it is also listed in his PDS that they will not cover the cost for this exact thing.

Quote:

Undamaged Areas

We don't repair undamaged area of your vehicle to create a uniform appearance.

For example, if the incident causes damage to the right panel, then we will only pay to respray the right panel. We won't pay the cost to respray the rest of the vehicle.

In the event of repairs, we will a fair and reasonable attempt to match the repairs to undamaged areas, using the closest match available...

So maybe before buying your insurance its a good idea to check your PDS as this is where they hide all the stuff you will whinge about later, and legally you have agreed to it when you pay your premium.

This is not the repairers fault, this is the insurers guidelines that the repairer has to abide by, and as always the consumer just thinks that it should all be covered because they have insurance, but the repairer cops the abuse.

Itsme · 25-05-2022, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prktkljokr

Most plastic bumpers will give you a different shade of colour, it is a known fact in the industry, we get it on a daily basis at work where the customer points out a different bumper shade to a repair, we just show them the other bumper difference on their own car if we only did one, or if we did both, we show them other cars we did not touch to show them this is also a factory issue.
Being a repair through a insurer, it will more than likely be a rapid repair where the repairer is allocated a set amount per vehicle to get jobs done, yours would be one of hundreds that need to be repaired in this budget price, so they dont spend a hour to mix and match to save money per job, and when the colour is close they just blend into adjoining panels, you may find they have already blended the bumper edges to what the guard is, the variation may just be because of the 2 different materials that are painted over.

Cut and pasted from the net

Have you ever noticed that the colour of the paint on your bumper seems to be different than the colour of the paint on the rest of the vehicle? Here’s why:

First – some basic vehicle anatomy: for the vast majority of vehicles, the bumpers are made out of plastic and the rest of the vehicle is made out of metal.

When you lay the same paint on plastic vs metal, you get different results. There’s a couple different reasons why that is.

The first reason is because the heat dissipation on plastic is slower than it is on metal, which means that it’s going to take longer to dry. This gives the metal flakes in the paint more time to rearrange differently. Also, plastic holds more static electricity than metal panels do, which – again – allows for the metal particles to rearrange. Another consideration is the contour of the plastic panels. Bumpers typically have many more contour points than the more flat metal panels, and this can give the illusion that it’s a different shade or colour depending on lighting.

The manufacturer attaches what’s called a paint code to each VIN so the exact same paint can be used each time. When you get your vehicle repaired, the body shop will use this paint code to mix paint to match the rest of the paint on your vehicle.

This colour variation on bumpers isn’t just seen on vehicles that are repaired or repainted. Go to any new car dealership and you’ll see it there, too. It’s more obvious with some colours, especially metallic colours, and especially “pearl white” paint.

Valid comment on how insurance works in with repairers but the customer can demand for the repair especially the paint work to match properly, in my opinion poor performance from the repairer if paint matching is not up to par and stands out like dogs balls.

If I was the OP I'd be contacting the insurance Co to remedy the colour matching.

Brodes · 25-05-2022, 03:52 PM

Our policy does have choice of repairer, however due to this being a large weather event with many cars damaged, I believe they have something written in their terms and conditions that it is to be repaired to their assigned contractor, hence we were not able to choose.

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