HACKERS....... is new car technology really a good thing?

[SPArKy_Dave]

Came across this interesting article in the up and coming Forbes magazine, about hacking a cars ECU (can even be done wirelessly),
to make it randomly do things without driver input............. whilst being driven -
like steer itself, brake unintentionally, or not brake, accelerate randomly and so on.

It's funny in the controlled situation of the video, but damn it'd be scary in real life.
Kinda puts the recent unintended acceleration/ no brake/ help I can't stop the car... cases in an whole new light.

Don't the new Commodores have electric steering, with an automatic parking feature?


Just ONE more reason, why I like my old and simple falcons........ call me paranoid maybe?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygree...e-wheel-video/

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by SPArKy_Dave

Don't the new Commodores have electric steering, with an automatic parking feature?


Just ONE more reason, why I like my old and simple falcons........ call me paranoid maybe?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygree...e-wheel-video/

The Ford kuga has the same feature for automatic parking!!!

[Falcon SXR8]

Hmm anti virus programs for our cars ?? mods of the future

[Bulletime]

This is not surprising in the slightest, in fact some researchers a couple of years ago demoed a similar hack but via wireless, this new example is with physical access to the car, two different classes of attacks.

But yes very real threat and very scary. Imagine a worm that instead of making your windows computer restart or crash and spread but something that make all cars swerve into oncoming traffic or swerve at pedestrians.

The problem is manufacturers are too busy building these systems without securing them. Computer viruses and computer extortion, all the cyber buzz word ****, costs us BIG time, and there is squillions of dollars being spent on information security, virus programs barely do anything. You think car manufacturers who are too busy building fancy new systems to get sales will be able to solve what the whole computer security industry, and govt. trying to stop all their systems getting hacked (and losing)??

No chance. The more automation the more chance of something going wrong, complex code is hard to write, really hard! The more complex the more likely there will be vulnerabilities that can be exploited, ie hacked.

Would be extremely scary for a voice to come through your car demanding you give them your bank login so they can steal all your money or they crash your car and kill your family. Little more scary then someone hacking your computer and encrypting your files and demanding payment to decrypt.

I don't have much confidence in there being an easy solution, because it isn't that easy.

In the short term lots of fun for the ppl who get to play around and research new hacker tools against cars.

But at some point manufacturers will be forced, either by government or by a terrible incident, to spend big on security.

[Adamz Ghia]

Wouldn't you just switch off the ignition...?

[Bulletime]

Can't, it's not a hard switch, the switch is controlled by the computer. The computers are still running, thus the attacker is still in control.

[SPArKy_Dave]

You'd need a battery/alternator switch.

....... and in a Prius, it'd be a damn big switch too!

[Bushbasher]

The first mod I'd be fitting is a biga$$ isolator switch that kills power to the car from the battery AND the alternator then find a way to disable the wifi not just mask it or security code it.

[nstg8a]

I'd be more worried about the state of our roads, and shocking drivers already on the roads than some nerd sitting in his room playing on his pc...


Maybe some tinfoil around the ecu might help

[Bulletime]

Hardcore battery isolated sounds cool, so long as ur not already driving.

It's not about crazies in their basement anymore, it's a real criminal economy now. Imagine internet connected cars for all sorts of fancy whateverness that gets compromised.

What if it was some youbute system that managed traffic flow and took readings from all cars and managed traffic lights accordingly. Someone hacks into that and redirects all the cars, changes the lights.

Think about the cruise control radar following the car in front and all the extra things they are saying these systems could do where cars communicate to each other and tell each other where they are on the road. How will they respond to erroneous sensor data, currently not well. What about exploiting the sensor data if there were protections in place. Cars that talk to each other and take action based on the responses would need huge levels of security. What if a car was hacked and it gave out incorrect speed or location to cars around it? One car asks if it can merge and your hacked car goes sure, bam you crash. Autonomous cruise control gets a signal that the car in front has sped up, sweet we can too, oh wait they didn't actually speed up. The sensors get data saying your about to have an accident because of a hazard in front of you and takes evasive action only the data was wrong and it just cause you to crash.

These and many more are possible. What if we went to war and they simply shut down all our cars and trucks. The nations productivity stops, combined with them shutting down critical infrastructure like power and water and game over.

It's not being paranoid if its really possible.

[csv8]

This is the future from NVIDIA Tegra chipset automotive
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http://www.nvidia.com/object/tegra-automotive.html

[JG34JA]

They can't hack a carburettor.

[In Focus]

I'd be more worried that the government would hack into my ECU... just so they could start deducting points/dollars every time I exceed the limit by one kph.

[KIWI-1]

Why not ECUs?
Barnaby Jack discovered a way to hack ATM machines and make them spew out cash and was set to deliver a talk about hacking pacemakers and other wireless implantable medical devices until he died a couple a days ago. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=10904192

[Bushbasher]

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

Why not ECUs?
Barnaby Jack discovered a way to hack ATM machines and make them spew out cash and was set to deliver a talk about hacking pacemakers and other wireless implantable medical devices until he died a couple a days ago. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=10904192

Maybe he new too much........ or maybe he was just one of those rare unlucky people who had a Cerebral aneurysm and suddenly dropped dead.

[SPArKy_Dave]

THIS is what worries me -

From the ECU hacking article.........

Miller, a 40-year-old security engineer at Twitter, and Valasek, the 31-year-old director of security intelligence at the Seattle consultancy IOActive, received an $80,000-plus grant last fall from the mad-scientist research arm of the Pentagon known as the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency to root out security vulnerabilities in automobiles.


From the above Barnaby Jack ATM/pacemaker hacking article.....

The New Zealander taught himself the skills needed to become a hacking expert.
Mr Jack was the head of research at cybersecurity firm IOActive.
The company confirmed his death to 3News and said it would post a statement on their website.

[Thornie]

This ones from the ted talks, not only covers hacking cars computer systems, but a range of other things like hacking pacemakers and using the i-phone accelerometer as a keylogger.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=metkEeZvHTg

[Bushbasher]

N6w ^^^^^^^^ THAT is reaiiy scary.

[burnz]

done this before
http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11305328

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by JG34JA

They can't hack a carburettor.

And they can't hack any ECU wirelessly, unless someone decides to leave their OBDII bluetooth adaptor in the socket for some unknown reason.

[JG34JA]

http://www.androidcentral.com/my-bmw...ts-ac-and-more

Question: are Remote Door Lock & Unlock, Climate Control, Horn Blow, Flash Light, Vehicle Finder (implies GPS in vehicle), and "Finally, using Google Local Search, users are able to import points of interest (POIs) from their smartphone into the vehicle’s navigation system via the message list," - are these functions independent of the car's ECU? I would have thought the door locking and security would be a part of it. At least they are using Android.

and

http://www.caradvice.com.au/179228/f...-technologies/

Seems like the future of motoring is Johnnycab.

[2011G6E]

I like old cars as well...but there's a reason that our previous car, the G6E, was getting down around 8ltr/100 on the highway out of a big four liter six cylinder...modern tech is great.

I don't know if people remember, but when remote central locking first became common, there were scare stories of little hand held devices that would "soon be everywhere!!!!!" that someone would merely stand nearby, press a button while you were unlocking your car, and it would detect the signal and then retransmit it at the thiefs leisure to "break in" to your car without "breaking in".
Never heard anymore of them again.

[Kalab]

That crazy that this is happening , too smart for our own good !

[Bulletime]

That's because there's been reasonable security in the the remote central locking system. This was a break of the encryption algorithm keyloq2 a couple of years ago that got plugged. The other thing that now happens is jamming of the central locking signal so someone walks from their car and hits lock but the signal is jammed and unless the person realises then they walk away with an unlocked car.

Remote central locking is a relatively simple system and not too complex so not as big a problem atm.

JuSt hope they secure the rest of the vehicle sensors and computer systems.

[Yellow_Festiva]

This technology has been out for months... was I the only one who saw it of FF6???

They were talking about this on the radio Saturday. Homes being filled with 'Smart' appliances perhaps being not so... well smart because many people don't understand the security implications (or lack of security) they are exposing themselves to.

Eg, a lot of people never change default passwords (eg for modems / wifi devices), leaving them very open for attack..

[Nikked]

Sounds like something in Fast & Furious

[Kable72]

You know, they have to be able to secure a connection to your Vehicle which either requires a physical link or a wifi/bluetooth connection. Considering only your radio and sat nav have bluetooth/satellite connections and both are only capable of reading information, not sending it, I think we're pretty safe from these "hacks".

[SPArKy_Dave]

they're capable of RECEIVING information, which is the important part for the Hackers.

[Kable72]

Originally Posted by SPArKy_Dave

they're capable of RECEIVING information, which is the important part for the Hackers.

Oh no, they can tell what radio station you're looking at! Oh no!

No. The only sort of information they can get out of any wireless device in your car is your travel history and anything that is stored within the radio of your car. They cannot, I repeat, CANNOT, take any sort control of your vehicle when the only things that they can get any sort of access to is the bluetooth within your radio player and if applicable your sat nav. Furthermore it's not like they can steal credit card details from your radio. It's as if someone broke into your car and started reading stuff off the screen. Nothing condemning and nothing of huge importance can be seen.

[Nikked]