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The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
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#1 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 50
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The Sydney Morning Herald just posted this story. I don't agree with everything the author says but the last couple of paragraphs are interesting. Your thoughts?
http://www.smh.com.au/business/dumpi...203-1afg2.html Quote:
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#2 | ||||||||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,242
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The fact is, the story is so full of holes, you could probably drive his australian car manufacturers sponsor cheque thru it. Quote:
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Mr Porter would do well to rally his own employer to support workers in the australian paper industry, and buy locally made paper, before he starts to preaching to others. http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/s...-1225995683890 |
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#3 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 423
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Top effect bobthebilda. that reply would have take a while to type!
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#4 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 470
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I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you bobthebilda.
At least Porter's standing up for the local industry whatever way you read it. It's a welcome change from the so-called "journalists" who almost seem happy writing about the imminent death of the Falcon and other locally produced vehicles. I'm sorry but I think the majority of Porter's points are valid. If locally produced vehicles (not just cars) are so unpopular to the Aussie buyer, why has IVECO announced a several million dollar investment at its Dandenong plant this week that will facilitate the significant ramping up of production of trucks? I suppose cars and trucks are two different markets but if you produce what people want they will buy it regardless of where it's made. Ford just hasn't seemed to have grasped that concept yet. |
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#5 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 622
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I think most people would be surprised to learn how other governments 'protect' their auto industries. From the obvious tariff protection, to more subtle 'hold-ups at the ports' and the more contensious grants and subsidies.
Japan for instance has bankrolled its Auto industries R&D for years - when Ford was developing the Fusion Hybrid they purchased Toyota's technical development notes to fast track the Hybrids. In discussions between the engineers, a Toyota Engineer let it slip to his Ford counter part that the Japanese Govt basically paid for all the Research and development during the genesis of their Hybrid system.
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Quote: From www.motortrend.com "Torque is the new horsepower" |
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#6 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,876
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bobthebozo never willing to accept counter arguments, the sign of someone with an (obvious) agenda.
Every one of your counter arguments are laughable and dont make sense, what a mining job disappears if the metal goes into a domestic car instead of a foreign one? Huh? Last edited by Brazen; 04-02-2011 at 07:53 PM. |
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#7 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 3,246
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The auto industry is a non-level playing field. We need tariffs and other measures to help the locals survive. Vehicles are highly value added and help drive innovation and are good for the country. The idea that we as Australians can be primary producers and consumers only is crap. We need manufacturing to thrive not maintain a steady decline.
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BA2 XR8 Rapid M6 Ute - Lid - Tint -18s 226.8rwkW@178kmh/537Nm@140kmh 1/9/2013 14.2@163kmh 23/10/2013 Boss349 built. Not yet run. Waiting on a shell. Retrotech thread http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...1363569&page=6 |
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#8 | |||
3..2..1..
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bellbird park
Posts: 7,218
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trouble is the free trade agreements put a stop to excessive tariffs to protect the local industry. slap tariffs on imports and the corresponding country will just slap tariffs on australias exports. |
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#9 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 164
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For my $0.02 , as a person with 20 odd years experience in the automotive manufacturing industry I'm thinking at most 5 ~10 years is left.
We really aren't that clever when it comes to building cars. |
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#10 | |||
T3FTE -099. OnTemp Loan
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Down Under
Posts: 1,506
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![]() On a global scale, Australia has some of the worlds best engineering, R&D, and manufacturing know how, not to mention the innovation and expertise that come with it. Do you really not think our manufacturers could build an M3 eater - performance and in quality ? It all comes back to the market segment they are based in, and that is their limitation. Everything is relative to cost. I bet alot (huge amount) of international folks would crave our performance offerings, irrespective of manufacturer. THATS HOW GOOD WE ARE AT BUILDING CARS - TO ITS RELATIVE MARKET
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Warning - This users posts are classified (G). G (General) – Contains material intended for general viewing. The content is very mild in impact. IT IS STRONGLY ADVISED SENSITIVE ADULTS VIEW IN THE COMPANY OF CHILDREN ![]() |
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#11 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,271
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while we do have brilliant design and development engineers in this country,
they can do only so much to make large cars and mid sized SUVs viable. It is to their credit that they have held entry level Falcons to the mid $30Ks for the past 15 years or so, that's how much the market has slipped. While Ford and Holden were defending their ever shrinking large vehicles sales, the other brands were selling cars that the remaining 80% of buyers wanted... There's a huge message in that for companies purporting to be full line manufacturers. Ford cannot look at Falcon/Territory and just change this or that and make it all better, they need to get out there and sell the whole range: New Fiesta, (here) New Focus, (later this year) New Escape (next year) New Mondeo (here) New Ranger (soon) New Ranger SUV (still a way off) ^^^^^ Poor sales or lack of products filling these categories is what's hurting Ford, Falcon and territory sales going away are just more proof of a systemic failure to adapt. In this day and age, a manufacturer claiming that its front line imported products are either volume constricted or unavailable is just plain laughable, no wonder they're in trouble.... Last edited by jpd80; 05-02-2011 at 08:32 AM. |
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#12 | |||
5.0 means business
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Busselton, Western Australia
Posts: 1,020
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Quote:
![]() I think were exactly opposite of this. Alot of changes will come in the next 5 to 10 years tho.
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#13 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 164
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to expand a little on my thoughts
At the top level (Ford , Holden , Toyota) there's quite a bit of innovation and yes they do build a good car. All 3 however suffer largely from a slow dimwitted supply base who lack the courage and funds to truly innovate (and true with all generalisations there are exceptions but they are few) The Aust car market has also fundementally shifted , it is much more diverse and therefore to succeed a more diverse range of products is needed. However the plants are all designed to make one or two models at high volume, what they need is 5+ variants in different segments to get a good spread. Most people are concerned about Ford, a lot of the information coming out is very reminiscent of Mitsu post 2000 and we all know what happened there (even comments along the lines, we not chasing fleet because the quality of sale is not there). Ford have hit the point where their volume is really going to hurt them. So lets say Ford drop out in a few years, Leaves Holden and Toyota. These two have very little common suppliers, whereas right now most companies supply at least 2 of the 3. Once the supply base becomes tied to a single major customer , the difference between survival and bankruptcy becomes very narrow. Once one goes over then more will fall. So I think that the industry will fail, but more due to the supply base rather than the OE's themselves. |
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#14 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,021
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Australia's auto industry will not survive because of a number of reasons,
Too many manufacturers trying to supply to a small market. Our free trade agreement with countries who still protect theirs Overheads are too high in Australia, i.e salary tax, workcover premiums etc. A lack of major export contracts between the three manufacturers There are many more reasons than stated above, but at this rate we are becoming a country that buy's goods, we just don't make them anymore. In Australia we are slowly becoming used to the idea of buying a car for $12,990 drive away with no idea of how or why it is manufactured at that price.
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#15 | ||
Purveyor of filth
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 2,958
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^^ If that were to eventuate, Australia is dead, no place can survive as a service economy (with mining thrown into the mix, thats if the rest of the world doesn't go to hell in a handbasket).
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#16 | |||
Peter Car
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: geelong
Posts: 23,145
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#17 | |||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern Suburbs Melbourne
Posts: 17,798
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Well according to him they use to much fuel which gives money to terrorists!
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#18 | |||
I was correct - AGAIN
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Third rock from the sun
Posts: 1,801
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#19 | |||
Peter Car
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: geelong
Posts: 23,145
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![]() Didn't the US Government use some sort of propaganda like that by making TV ads that claimed terrorists were getting funding from growing weed, and anyone who buys weed is helping support terrorism? Or did I just see that on Family Guy ![]() |
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#20 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,242
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No boss, I own an australian made car. In fact my last two have been australian made. Probably owned more australian made cars than some here. Just dont think the governments intervention over the many years, has benefitted the industry one bit. And the facts surely bear it out. The more money the government has thrown at it, the more sales continue to decline. The money just gets siphoned off. You have other australian companies coming up with innovative ideas, which have to go overseas to get development money. And yet the australian government thinks it innovative to give the likes of a US company $150 million to build a car that has been produced in Korea for many years, or a Japanese company many millions to import a Hybrid engine made in Japan. If you keep taxing $50,000 wage earners, so their money can be paid to overseas execs earning $1 million, so they can invest the money to keep the $50,000 wage earners in a job, you end up on a merry go round to poverty. Like most articles say, The majority of the politicians want the industry to die, they just dont want it to happen when they are in power. It just ends up being a waste of money. Its a populist play, with irrational decisions made on an adhoc basis, with no long term goal put in place. You'd be better of venting your anger at your local politician, or the management of ford australia who has lead to this terrible decline, or the 900 odd thousand australians who prefer to buy imported cars. Whilst I havent owned a Falcon before (have rented some), I have done far more to support the industry, than all the others listed above. |
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#21 | |||
Donating Member
![]() Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,650
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Quote:
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#22 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 242
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I think its just a quiet period where going through, when the new lpg system and eco boost Falcon and deisel territory come on board, sales will pick up again just like it did after the GFC, well I am hoping that is the case.
My father said the media had been talking about the demise of the Falcon since the mid 60s after the XL and XM range were released because people didnt trust the Falcons because of the ball joint and suspension problems they were having and it was almost the end for the Falcon back then. Only after the release of the XP Falcon did people start buying them in big numbers again, lets hope history repeats itself with the FG mark 2.
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#23 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melb north
Posts: 12,025
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for once i agree with the journo, should we lose whats left of our manufactureing base , perhaps not a immediately but down the track our living standards will decline further imo, its happening already, we are working longer hours as more money goes over sea`s.
Entrepeneurs like Dick smith can see the value of manufactureing in Australia, its a pity some of our people don`t ![]() |
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#24 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,845
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Quote:
Rather than what Bobtheblind argues, the local manufacturers have done reasonably well considering the onslaught from competitors. But they are not competing on a level playing field, given the costs to produce here locally. I'm concerned about the domino effect if our local industry fails. If all we do in future is dig up minerals, we'll end up like Nauru. PS. My last 6 cars have been Australian made - all purchased new. Last edited by Trendseeker; 05-02-2011 at 04:59 PM. |
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#25 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 3,246
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Quote:
As for owning Australian owned. I've owned 1 Mitsu built here, a N14 Pulsar built here, a VK Commodore built here and my 2 Falcons. I've only owned 1 imported 90s Nissan Bluebird. Later this year, i'll be buying my first new car. Depending on whether the houses are finished or not i'll be buying an FG, hopefully a new XR6T or if the year works out really well a GS, or the 3rd option of a 4yo Terri if things don't quite pan out as expected.
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BA2 XR8 Rapid M6 Ute - Lid - Tint -18s 226.8rwkW@178kmh/537Nm@140kmh 1/9/2013 14.2@163kmh 23/10/2013 Boss349 built. Not yet run. Waiting on a shell. Retrotech thread http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...1363569&page=6 |
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#26 | |||||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Old Sydney Town
Posts: 440
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![]() ![]() ![]() Future generations deserve a high standard of living, this will be provided only with local employment oppourtunities in primary, secondary & tertiary industries, nothing more, nothing less. |
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#27 | ||
5.0 means business
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Busselton, Western Australia
Posts: 1,020
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Just to add some
![]() What if the government does what the US government is doing in the future pumps our tax into them to keep em going?
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Windsor V8 Enthusiast! Turbo Barra Lover! ![]() |
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#28 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,271
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Would you care to share which Australian cars you purchased in recent times and were they new from the factory? I take it your support for the local industry is in areas other than purchasing products..... Last edited by jpd80; 05-02-2011 at 11:38 PM. |
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#29 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 470
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As mentioned before, if the media are so hell-bent on seeing the end of the Falcon through, Ford should come clean about their intentiones once and for all instead of leaving everyone to guess. I remember last year when Marin Burela was publicly ****ed-off with the media for publishing such negative crap about the Falcon's demise, yet now they are back to square one.
I've said it countless times already but IMHO, the only thing that will save FoA is exports. Toyota's locally made vehicle sales are woeful in Australia yet they produce over 100,000 cars annually at Altona with around 80,000 for export and always manage to churn out a decent profit. Combine this with the Commodore being the most popular car in Australia as well as their US PPV program, Holden should be in the black from now on. Ford on the other hand just don't seem to care. |
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#30 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,271
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When the global financial crisis hit in 2009-10:
Toyota were doing near on $9 billion revenue to make a around $182 million profit Holden were doing near $6 Billion revenue to make around $200 million loss Ford were doing near $2.2 billion revenue to make around $16 million profit |
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