It's scary out there............

[XWGT]

Once upon a time while considering a career change I thought I might like to own an FPV dealership.........or be associated with the performance automotive industry in some way

However, having seen the reaction in the media to most articles revealing what is probably the greatest performance vehicle ever produced in Australia, and pretty high up the tree on a world stage, I think I'd rather stay at home under the covers!

Some of the comments from the public just defy belief. Ranging from totally ill informed, to totally antagonistic, you would have to wonder whether these people are for real of simply marketing stunts from opposing camps marketing departments.

Comments such as......."superior euro build quality.......handling and performance" which is complete rubbish, to "The Audi S6 is only $160,000.....not much more than a Falcon" just make you shake your head and wonder what the hell these people are on......and if they actually believe what they are talking about? One person was even comparing it to a VW Gold for christs sake and suggesting it was a superior buy. Hello?????????????

I genuinely feel sorry for the FPV team at times. If thats the true nature of the market your trying to sell into I can only sympathise and suggest some panadol and a box of tissues.

I for one think the new car while visually "challenging" is probably the best mechanical offering from Oz ever...........I hope you get some just rewards and market respect you deserve for your acheivement with this engine.

[Polyal]

Are you basing this off comments on carpoint etc? If so then take it with a grain of salt, they are 16yo's (most of the time) looking for a stir.

The average punter is not overly educated about cars, nor should they be. The people buying FPV's are more interested in the car and hence the process typically would be less painful.

Ill start a dealership up with you...it would be something Id love to do but there are already many about that are well established, even if they are not meeting customer expectations.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by XWGT

Once upon a time while considering a career change I thought I might like to own an FPV dealership.........or be associated with the performance automotive industry in some way

However, having seen the reaction in the media to most articles revealing what is probably the greatest performance vehicle ever produced in Australia, and pretty high up the tree on a world stage, I think I'd rather stay at home under the covers!

Some of the comments from the public just defy belief. Ranging from totally ill informed, to totally antagonistic, you would have to wonder whether these people are for real of simply marketing stunts from opposing camps marketing departments.

Comments such as......."superior euro build quality.......handling and performance" which is complete rubbish, to "The Audi S6 is only $160,000.....not much more than a Falcon" just make you shake your head and wonder what the hell these people are on......and if they actually believe what they are talking about? One person was even comparing it to a VW Gold for christs sake and suggesting it was a superior buy. Hello?????????????

I genuinely feel sorry for the FPV team at times. If thats the true nature of the market your trying to sell into I can only sympathise and suggest some panadol and a box of tissues.

I for one think the new car while visually "challenging" is probably the best mechanical offering from Oz ever...........I hope you get some just rewards and market respect you deserve for your acheivement with this engine.

Agree with you, the problem with forums and internet media is you'll never be able to validate or verify the poster's credibility, motive, buying power or IQ...

Ive long held faith that the broader buying public who actually BUY these cars are more intelligent than what we often read..

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Agree with you, the problem with forums and internet media is you'll never be able to validate or verify the poster's credibility, motive, buying power or IQ...

Ive long held faith that the broader buying public who actually BUY these cars are more intelligent than what we often read..

In general yes I agree.

Still doesn't explain the commodore sales though. Marketing and image seems to be the greatest influence of all.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Polyal

In general yes I agree.

Still doesn't explain the commodore sales though. Marketing and image seems to be the greatest influence of all.

I'll explain their sales success in 2 words for you:

BRAND LOYALTY.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

I'll explain their sales success in 2 words for you:

BRAND LOYALTY.

You mean blinkers?

I would think Ford people are loyal too, is it just there is less than us? Surely the general public doesn't care as much as we do about brand loyalty.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Polyal

You mean blinkers?

I would think Ford people are loyal too, is it just there is less than us? Surely the general public doesn't care as much as we do about brand loyalty.

Rough split: 60% Holden, 40% Ford, about 10-20% might swing either way, it would explain everything.

[XWGT]

OK rant mode is off. Just had to express my amazement at the situation.

I am well aware that most are 16yo keyboard warriors etc, and know there is a mature market that thinks at a differnet level (as well as a brand loyal market who for better or worse dont think at all but that another story)

My comments were more directed at the breadth of the ignorance and the breadth of the non car related forums I have seen this ignorance displayed.

4V you are dead right, the potential customer will not be swayed and will purchase. I just hope the media writers and motoring critics give it the attention it deserves and the FPV team finally get their day in the sun. As a long long time Ford owner and GT owner who has been involved in the GT club scence and by extension Tickford and FPV.........I have seen them go through some dark patches (many self induced!) but would finally like to see them get their recognition for a job well done

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by XWGT

OK rant mode is off. Just had to express my amazement at the situation.

I am well aware that most are 16yo keyboard warriors etc, and know there is a mature market that thinks at a differnet level (as well as a brand loyal market who for better or worse dont think at all but that another story)

My comments were more directed at the breadth of the ignorance and the breadth of the non car related forums I have seen this ignorance displayed.

4V you are dead right, the potential customer will not be swayed and will purchase. I just hope the media writers and motoring critics give it the attention it deserves and the FPV team finally get their day in the sun. As a long long time Ford owner and GT owner who has been involved in the GT club scence and by extension Tickford and FPV.........I have seen them go through some dark patches (many self induced!) but would finally like to see them get their recognition for a job well done

Agree completely!!

Lets hope the "stripe and wheel haters" move on..! LOL

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

I'll explain their sales success in 2 words for you:

BRAND LOYALTY.

Better marketing. Another 2 words that explain it...

[RedHotGT]

Originally Posted by Polyal

In general yes I agree.

Still doesn't explain the commodore sales though. Marketing and image seems to be the greatest influence of all.

Originally Posted by 4Vman

I'll explain their sales success in 2 words for you:

BRAND LOYALTY.

Marketing will sell more cars than brand loyalty

But Marketing and Brand Loyalty are probably the two biggest factors in the sale of a motor car.

Brand Loyalty - yes... but over the years, the needs and wants of the buyer will change... they may stay loyal to the Brand (Holden) but might end up buying a captiva if they've got a few kids, or a rodeo if they're in the trade, or an astra for the family runabout, etc etc... not always a commodore...

The marketing is the main thing...
and whether or not you believe it, it has the largest impact on the decision to buy (in most cases).

So - - this is why I believe the FPV guys have made a wrong step in the marketing/advertising of the new FPV GT...
"King of Every Mountain" is a silly line to throw at the car enthusiast... given that Peter Brock (the #1 face of Holden and Racing) was/still is the KING of the Mountain... We'll see how that plays out... and whether they keep the same line for the TV ads and the rest of the print media when it comes out...

Back to the topic...

At the end of the day... everyone is going to have an opinion about everything... thats the beauty of living somewhere with freedom of speech, and the joys of internet forums... everyone has a voice and is free to express it...

Though from a sample of 100 comments on a forum/blog/page.... how many do you think will actually put their hand in their pocket and buy a NEW performance car within 12months of the car being released??

I would say - not many...

[mik]

there are a lot of opinionated dipsticks out there without much of a clue, not a lot you can do about it, except prove them wrong with a better product over a period of time, the F6 was on the right track, and it looks like the coyote will causing some humble pie eating in other camps, don`t loose the faith .

[b0son]

Originally Posted by XWGT

Some of the comments from the public just defy belief.

Well, you need to put it in perspective. FPV put a blower on someone else's engine. That isnt exactly a technical marvel, impressive though the performance figures are.

Its not the big deal that say, variable valve timing, or dual-clutch gearboxes were in terms of innovation at the time.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by b0son

Well, you need to put it in perspective. FPV put a blower on someone else's engine. That isnt exactly a technical marvel, impressive though the performance figures are.

Its not the big deal that say, variable valve timing, or dual-clutch gearboxes were in terms of innovation at the time.

Ok...now you have done it, your so off the mark its almost funny.

She aint no crate motor ala HSV.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by b0son

Well, you need to put it in perspective. FPV put a blower on someone else's engine. That isnt exactly a technical marvel, impressive though the performance figures are.

Its not the big deal that say, variable valve timing, or dual-clutch gearboxes were in terms of innovation at the time.

Well I guess it's one step ahead of using someone elses catalogue engine in your car like HSV... Atleast FPV are innovative...

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Ok...now you have done it, your so off the mark its almost funny.

Sorry, other than the blower, they also used a few of their own internals.

Again, so what? Thats not profoundly innovative. Its not the sort of thing anyone else in the world is really going to care about.

[Polyal]

I think XWGT just proved his point.

[Dom1]

Being a HOLDEN person for along time(am toying with the idea of a fairlane so joined up here)I appreciate all cars no matter what badge BUT The reason HOLDEN has it over FORD is ,loyalty,marketing and ease of modifying .A mate runs a engine shop building worked motors mainly,and like he said for the gen 3 and above power is so easy to get and cheap(I know about the turbo fords)I think as a 16 year old kid getting a 1st car they get a commodore because they can get cheap parts,rims,power ups and stay brand loyal from then on in.I reckon this new FPV would make a nice addition in my dream garage next to a typhoon and a few hsvs.I think this car in particular will get quite a few HOLDEN guys buying em,seriously how cool is a legal factory supercharged car??If I had the $ I would buy one .Either way I think the gap is tightening between the 2 brands in general population but seriously here in sa every second commodore is tricked up and not that many FORDS are(thats why I like the idea of a fairlane something different) so the enthusiants are all over the commodore.Either way it looks like a great car ,hopefully the badge negatives just shut up

[mrbaxr6t]

wasn't the coyote a straight drop V8 from the mustang, people are already saying the tuning capability and bolt ons are all available in the states SCT also has tuning capability on the mustang and as far as I was aware are confident they will be able to tune the coyote pretty much day its released, certain I read that on this very forum, if FPV have molested the stang v8 then the boltons and tuning won't work (its different as a result of the alterations)

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by b0son

Well, you need to put it in perspective. FPV put a blower on someone else's engine. That isnt exactly a technical marvel, impressive though the performance figures are.

Its not the big deal that say, variable valve timing, or dual-clutch gearboxes were in terms of innovation at the time.

$40,000,000 is quite a bit to just drop a blower in ....... Must have been some great lunches at FPV.

Sorry about that ..... What was the topic about again. ??

[UNR8D]

It is vastly different from the base engine used in the states Mrbaxr6T, I believe either MOTOR or WHEELS or both have a rundown as to whats been changed for the S/C application.

I don’t get it, yes an ISF/C63 might be as fast (im yet to see that proven) leather might be better quality and ditto for switch gear but its a 130K-180K car + options compared to an 80K car at GTE level, for a 5.0L S/C v8 that meets all the worlds ever tightening 'GREEN' credentials, handles as well as any jap/euro performance based vehicle this side of 200K, and looks (while its a personal thing) elegant and purposeful.

Those who think the German’s and Japs don’t have reliability issues are deranged.

[XWGT]

Originally Posted by b0son

Well, you need to put it in perspective. FPV put a blower on someone else's engine. That isnt exactly a technical marvel, impressive though the performance figures are.

Its not the big deal that say, variable valve timing, or dual-clutch gearboxes were in terms of innovation at the time.

Again here is the problem.

To put things in perspective for you........and I'm am not patronising here I am being deadly serious.

FPV didnt just drop a blower on a crate motor and hope for the best, which in all honestly would have been the easier route to take.

FPV took the decision, and it would have been debated long and hard I'm sure, to stump up $40,000,000 and modfiy the engine to suit the Australian market, AND I might add, pull more horespower out of it with absolute ease than most other engines around the world.

Now we all know, even blind Freddy can see, the 335 version of this engine is simply the entre. This engine over the next 4 or 5 years is going to be turned up as far as any other manufacturer around the world can produce....at a fraction of the price to the consumer.

This engine also hamstrings FPV's greatest competitor. HSV cannot afford to be even SEEN to be pushing horepower upgrades as they know they will be bettered in moments for almost zero cost, while never being able to match consumption figures of teh 5ltr.

I gues my point is one manufacturer in this country had the balls to put $40,000,000 on the table to ensure we got a great product at a great price. No euro or asian competiter delivers the same horespower, 5 adult seating and the ability to travel the length and breadth of Aus for anything less than 40% to 50% more in price, let alone the ownership and ongoing maintenance costs differential.

And they not only delivered, they exceeded.

Kudos to them pure and simple. And they deserve it.

[XWGT]

Originally Posted by Polyal

I think XWGT just proved his point.

Cigars all round me thinks :-)

[RedHotGT]

Originally Posted by b0son

Sorry, other than the blower, they also used a few of their own internals.

Again, so what? Thats not profoundly innovative. Its not the sort of thing anyone else in the world is really going to care about.

Um... I live here in Australia... will buy a car that I intend to drive in Australia, and park at the house that I live in - in Australia...

Last time I checked... FPV wasn't exported..

So - pretty sure that the car(s) are aimed at the Local market... Who cares what the rest of the world thinks???

But correct me (i'm sure you will) if you're wrong...

[b0son]

Originally Posted by loftie

Who cares what the rest of the world thinks???

Sorry, I worded it wrong. The local market inevitably compares what we do, with what the rest of the world does.

Yay, we cranked out more power. On the other side of the spectrum, VW have built something that gets 2,500km from one tank.

From an enthusiasts POV, the FPV should be quite newsworthy. But motoring columnists arent just writing for the benefit of revheads, they're writing for the benefit of the average buyer. And the average buyer is probably more concerned with economy and practicality than they are about who's winning the ford vs holden war.

[UNR8D]

^^ go buy a Prius then.

Do you buy a 5.0L v8 S/C with fuel consumption in the forefront of your mind? NO.

It would be part of the decision making process but fact is from everything i've read it’s a big improvement over the outgoing boss, and should yield some decent real world figures.

If I gave stuff about L/100 id buy white goods weekly or read dribble from carsguide.com.

all good if that’s what you’re interested in *getting 2500ks from a tank of fuel* go buy a fiesta diesel and let me enjoy getting on with global warming

[b0son]

Originally Posted by UNR8D

Do you buy a 5.0L v8 S/C with fuel consumption in the forefront of your mind? NO.

No, but if your 5.0L is your daily driver, is it absent from your mind? NO.

[b055m4n]

XWGT ....mate...you should an add for FPV that's better than what they come up with.

[Falcon Coupe]

Originally Posted by b0son

Sorry, I worded it wrong. The local market inevitably compares what we do, with what the rest of the world does.

Yay, we cranked out more power. On the other side of the spectrum, VW have built something that gets 2,500km from one tank.

From an enthusiasts POV, the FPV should be quite newsworthy. But motoring columnists arent just writing for the benefit of revheads, they're writing for the benefit of the average buyer. And the average buyer is probably more concerned with economy and practicality than they are about who's winning the ford vs holden war.

The average buyer does not buy a GT or HSV, neither they or VW's that do 2500klm per tank have any relevance or place in this discussion.
If you have any constructive criticism comparing apples with apples this thread may stay open.

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by XWGT

Once upon a time while considering a career change I thought I might like to own an FPV dealership.........or be associated with the performance automotive industry in some way

However, having seen the reaction in the media to most articles revealing what is probably the greatest performance vehicle ever produced in Australia, and pretty high up the tree on a world stage, I think I'd rather stay at home under the covers!

Some of the comments from the public just defy belief. Ranging from totally ill informed, to totally antagonistic, you would have to wonder whether these people are for real of simply marketing stunts from opposing camps marketing departments.

Comments such as......."superior euro build quality.......handling and performance" which is complete rubbish, to "The Audi S6 is only $160,000.....not much more than a Falcon" just make you shake your head and wonder what the hell these people are on......and if they actually believe what they are talking about? One person was even comparing it to a VW Gold for christs sake and suggesting it was a superior buy. Hello?????????????

I genuinely feel sorry for the FPV team at times. If thats the true nature of the market your trying to sell into I can only sympathise and suggest some panadol and a box of tissues.

I for one think the new car while visually "challenging" is probably the best mechanical offering from Oz ever...........I hope you get some just rewards and market respect you deserve for your acheivement with this engine.

without reading any replies as of yet , i feel this post is over exagerrated, there are many choice of vehicles to choose from , whilst car manufacturers may be interested about someone disliking they're product, i think they are aiming at the person looking for such a car, not someone with a comment