New roads laws for NSW (Oct2012 Edition)

wulos · 30-10-2012, 10:53 PM

The NSW RTA have announced several new road laws to be implemented as of the 1st Nov (this thursday)
http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/usingroads...rules_2012.pdf

Keepleft · 31-10-2012, 12:15 AM

Further, the update to the NSW RUH - Road Users Handbook reflecting the rules in the Pdf above is complete, incl triangle stuff, and I'd expect the latest edition online soon.

new2ford · 31-10-2012, 07:17 AM

I can't believe that the RTA after all these years doesn't understand the principle of roudabouts. (I believe Victoria and other jurisdictions are just as bad.)

There is no "turning left" or "turning right", there is only entering and leaving. Nobody seems to get the functional principle that a roundabout is a "main road" and the roads off it are "side streets", even if one of them is the M62 Motorway.

You don't really need to signal before entering a roundabout but you ought to signal your intention to leave at the next exit (left signal) or that you are proceeding around the roundabout without exiting (right signal) until you approach your exit (then you left signal).

And these are the official traffic managers for the state?

It's more than semantics. The notion of "going straight ahead, turning right and turning left" fosters the misguided belief that many Australian drivers have that there is a "main road" which is "straight ahead" and a "minor road" - with a consequent tendency to claim priorities by what I call charging the roundabout and denying those on the next entry the right to enter first.

zilo · 31-10-2012, 09:47 AM

I like the one about giving way to a vehicle already on the roundabout.

Just because they are on your right some people think that they can approach flat out and they think they have right of way...

Landau Stable · 31-10-2012, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugg

I like the one about giving way to a vehicle already on the roundabout.

Just because they are on your right some people think that they can approach flat out and they think they have right of way...

This is the biggest issue with roundabouts. I was hoping they would put some more emphasis on this, and clearly state that it is not law to give way to the right. As it is, we'll keep getting the same arguments going around in circles again. Really, most of these rules are nothing new.

FPV GTHO · 31-10-2012, 09:52 AM

These round about laws were already in place 8 years ago when I was on my L's, what's the big deal.

XR6T0Y · 31-10-2012, 10:06 AM

Heres one I picked up straight away, which was in another thread that no one would believe me about

"Police and emergency services vehicles
Police and emergency service drivers may continue to use mobile data terminals in the course of their work to receive job allocations, licensing, registration and other important information"

Kevxr8Leexr6 · 31-10-2012, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

These round about laws were already in place 8 years ago when I was on my L's, what's the big deal.

Yep , but now as a state in such a bad financial state , they have identified revenue raisers to help fund it. yippee. moral of the story, dont break the rules

Fiesta_Man69 · 31-10-2012, 11:09 AM

Indicating left when leaving a roundabout is utterly ridiculous.

Think about it: on a big, two lane roundabout, someone who is driving straight thru and plans to exit and indicates a fraction too early will cause an accident as someone else will think they are turning left.... result, a nice T-bone and traffic chaos.

Oh well, its easy coin for a bankrupt state govt.... set up a few cops at the exit of the big, busy (ie. a lot of customers to catch and fine) and they will make a killing.

I'd prefer to risk a stupid fine and points then be in an accident.

FPV GTHO · 31-10-2012, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiesta_Man69

Indicating left when leaving a roundabout is utterly ridiculous.

Think about it: on a big, two lane roundabout, someone who is driving straight thru and plans to exit and indicates a fraction too early will cause an accident as someone else will think they are turning left.... result, a nice T-bone and traffic chaos..

Well you're not supposed to turn left in that situation anyway.

Fiesta_Man69 · 31-10-2012, 11:17 AM

No, someone who is at another entry point thinks that car is turning left, not going straight and exiting, and enters the roundabout themselves to go straight ahead and bang. If people are so worried about being fined for not indicating left when exiting you watch, so many people will indicate early with crashy results...

AWD Chaser · 31-10-2012, 11:33 AM

http://fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11379731

KW XRT · 31-10-2012, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugg

I like the one about giving way to a vehicle already on the roundabout.

Just because they are on your right some people think that they can approach flat out and they think they have right of way...

This has been tested and won in court.Car approaching on the right at break neck speed,grandma been on roundabout for sometime moves off fast car on right skids for sometime and hits the old lady.She takes it to court as she was on the round about first and wins.While this is rare it should be more common as their should be a reduced speed limit approaching roundabouts as most people speed up.

mytgxl · 31-10-2012, 12:17 PM

Sometimes trying to indicate off a roundabout when turning can break your indicater if you are not careful!

XR6T0Y · 31-10-2012, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiesta_Man69

Indicating left when leaving a roundabout is utterly ridiculous.

Think about it: on a big, two lane roundabout, someone who is driving straight thru and plans to exit and indicates a fraction too early will cause an accident as someone else will think they are turning left.... result, a nice T-bone and traffic chaos.

Oh well, its easy coin for a bankrupt state govt.... set up a few cops at the exit of the big, busy (ie. a lot of customers to catch and fine) and they will make a killing.

I'd prefer to risk a stupid fine and points then be in an accident.

All you seem to do is cause problems. If you want to take off infront of someone in a roundabout, go ahead. If I see someone on a roundabout to my right, I give way. It's not hard.
If you are in the wrong lane, well that's your silly fault.

If there isn't enough time, should they be going around, don't go!
I ALWAYS indicate off a roundabout. And I see people indicate off to. However, I still will NOT go until it is clear they are moving off, incase they have stuck the indicator on by accident.

mik · 31-10-2012, 12:31 PM

We have many roundabouts in our area, for the most part they seem to work ok, my main critisism of them is in some area's it's plain to see there is too much traffic for them to operate safely and motorist will try and push in when there's really not enough gap, no doubt some of them should be traffic lights instead.

XRGhia · 31-10-2012, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mytgxl

Sometimes trying to indicate off a roundabout when turning can break your indicater if you are not careful!

A mate of mine managed to snap his indicator stalk off exiting from a roundabout in his VT during the P-plate test (L's - P's)... Thankfully it was the last roundabout he had to go through also...

Fiesta_Man69 · 31-10-2012, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6T0Y

All you seem to do is cause problems. If you want to take off infront of someone in a roundabout, go ahead. If I see someone on a roundabout to my right, I give way. It's not hard.
If you are in the wrong lane, well that's your silly fault.

If there isn't enough time, should they be going around, don't go!
I ALWAYS indicate off a roundabout. And I see people indicate off to. However, I still will NOT go until it is clear they are moving off, incase they have stuck the indicator on by accident.

Maybe waiting forever until there is no traffic on your right before entering a roundabout works in Maitland. It doesn't in Sydney. There are roundabouts where you would be there literally for hours....

If I see someone on my right with a left indicator on just as they enter the roundabout, I presume they are turning left. My point is that people may now put their indicator on early due to them being fearful/confused of a fine. I am not talking about people indicating left as they leave (which still causes confusion on 4 lane roundabouts btw).

And in such multilane roundabouts, you can go straight from either lane, unless it is specifically marked otherwise. I can site several as evidence if you so require.

XR6T0Y · 31-10-2012, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mik

We have many roundabouts in our area, for the most part they seem to work ok, my main critisism of them is in some area's it's plain to see there is too much traffic for them to operate safely and motorist will try and push in when there's really not enough gap, no doubt some of them should be traffic lights instead.

This is like one main one in our area. Out the front of a hospital, Hungry Jacks, Bunnings, and a car dealer. On a main highway, with 4 side streets. Many people have complained, and been a fair few accidents (my ex included from someone not looking). Been many calls to put lights in

XR6T0Y · 31-10-2012, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiesta_Man69

Maybe waiting forever until there is no traffic on your right before entering a roundabout works in Maitland. It doesn't in Sydney. There are roundabouts where you would be there literally for hours....

If I see someone on my right with a left indicator on just as they enter the roundabout, I presume they are turning left. My point is that people may now put their indicator on early due to them being fearful/confused of a fine. I am not talking about people indicating left as they leave (which still causes confusion on 4 lane roundabouts btw).

And in such multilane roundabouts, you can go straight from either lane, unless it is specifically marked otherwise. I can site several as evidence if you so require.

You think they arent bad here? Ive been held up, in close to 4k long traffic, generally 2-3x/week. But when I finally get through the first one, and on to the second, I will NOT push my way in. Why?
Maybe it has something to do with the bloke that wrote my EL off, NOT GIVING WAY. I have a pure hate for people that go when they shouldnt. I have way to much to lose for my future job, which requires NO record AT ALL. My 2c

**Silver Ghia** · 31-10-2012, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KW XRT

This has been tested and won in court.Car approaching on the right at break neck speed,grandma been on roundabout for sometime moves off fast car on right skids for sometime and hits the old lady.She takes it to court as she was on the round about first and wins.While this is rare it should be more common as their should be a reduced speed limit approaching roundabouts as most people speed up.

So she should win. Thats what the give way rule is at a roundabout.

I have been stuck behind driving school learner drivers waiting to enter a roundabout, giving way to cars from the right that are still at a distance from the roundabout. What hope has the learner got, when its obvious the instructor is teaching incorrectly who should give way to who?

Then there are the morons who dont stay in their lane, or worse, blatantly cut across the lanes in double lane roundabouts, even when there are cars almost next to them. The illustrations in the pdf show the vehicles correctly staying in their lane when going through the roundabout, also next to eachother, but in practice hardly anyone does this correctly, as they dont know. Why? Because drivers are never shown what the correct way is, and are never taught properly when learning to drive.

T3man · 31-10-2012, 01:08 PM

Those "new" rules are only new to people who didn't already know of them. Beats me how they can introduce a "new" rule that has already been the law for years???

The only one I see at a quick glance that is in fact new, is the rule for mobile phones; which is actually a relaxation of the old law and I think it is a good change.

xisled · 31-10-2012, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T3man

Those "new" rules are only new to people who didn't already know of them. Beats me how they can introduce a "new" rule that has already been the law for years???

The only one I see at a quick glance that is in fact new, is the rule for mobile phones; which is actually a relaxation of the old law and I think it is a good change.

If you read the second page of the flyer. They are not all new rules, just changes that clarify the rule and make it easier to understand.

AWD Chaser · 31-10-2012, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6T0Y

You think they arent bad here? Ive been held up, in close to 4k long traffic, generally 2-3x/week. But when I finally get through the first one, and on to the second, I will NOT push my way in. Why?
Maybe it has something to do with the bloke that wrote my EL off, NOT GIVING WAY. I have a pure hate for people that go when they shouldnt. I have way to much to lose for my future job, which requires NO record AT ALL. My 2c

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/roadprojec.../maitland.html

Ben73 · 31-10-2012, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6T0Y

This is like one main one in our area. Out the front of a hospital, Hungry Jacks, Bunnings, and a car dealer. On a main highway, with 4 side streets. Many people have complained, and been a fair few accidents (my ex included from someone not looking). Been many calls to put lights in

I have heard people say they would like to see a fly over at that roundabout and the next one down near the train station.
That will never happen, especially since the Expressway is being built.
Hopefully that will ease a fair bit of the traffic going through Maitland during the peak times.

I agree that people have no idea how to use roundabouts. I have seen a number of people indicate left, as they follow the round about around to the right. They seamed to be indicating their exit way to early.

T3man · 31-10-2012, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xisled

If you read the second page of the flyer. They are not all new rules, just changes that clarify the rule and make it easier to understand.

I did say "at a quick glance" ... was driving down the freeway using my Ipad.

HULK EF · 31-10-2012, 04:07 PM

i dont see the fuss.. i usualy indicate to exit the roundabout anyways like this OLD/new rule states anyway.
Is pretty entertaining watching the general public driving around roundabouts.. -much like the "weekend skippers" at public boat ramps.

If the cops clamp down on this "Non use of exit indicating on roundabouts" there should be a few extra million in tax.. (CoUgH) revenue... ARRGGHH!! CoUgH CoUgH!!!) Fines handed out.

xisled · 31-10-2012, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T3man

I did say "at a quick glance" ... was driving down the freeway using my Ipad.

flappist · 31-10-2012, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HULK EF

i dont see the fuss.. i usualy indicate to exit the roundabout anyways like this OLD/new rule states anyway.
Is pretty entertaining watching the general public driving around roundabouts.. -much like the "weekend skippers" at public boat ramps.

If the cops clamp down on this "Non use of exit indicating on roundabouts" there should be a few extra million in tax.. (CoUgH) revenue... ARRGGHH!! CoUgH CoUgH!!!) Fines handed out.

They have already done it up here a couple of times. They had a spotter and a car/bike about 100m along from each exit.

Despite the fact that they did a TV story the day before and several radio interviews on how they were going to enforce roundabouts they got lots.

karj · 31-10-2012, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

So she should win. Thats what the give way rule is at a roundabout.

I have been stuck behind driving school learner drivers waiting to enter a roundabout, giving way to cars from the right that are still at a distance from the roundabout. What hope has the learner got, when its obvious the instructor is teaching incorrectly who should give way to who?

Then there are the morons who dont stay in their lane, or worse, blatantly cut across the lanes in double lane roundabouts, even when there are cars almost next to them. The illustrations in the pdf show the vehicles correctly staying in their lane when going through the roundabout, also next to eachother, but in practice hardly anyone does this correctly, as they dont know. Why? Because drivers are never shown what the correct way is, and are never taught properly when learning to drive.

That is completely different kettle of fish though; they are learners. You'll find that learners who take a long time at roundabouts are very green behind the wheel and it takes a while (some longer than others) to build the knowledge and confidence be able to gauge correct gaps in traffic. Misjudging gaps in traffic is one of the main contributors to P plate accidents. So it's not that they are being taught incorrectly, just that they are inexperienced and not yet confident behind the wheel. The last thing you would want is an instructor putting pressure on a learner to go when they are not comfortable to go, or cutting it too fine on a roundabout. You don't just go to bed on the day of your 16th birthday and wake up a driver; skills need to be built up.