VFACTS July 2013 - Page 2

**Polyal** · 01-08-2013, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spammy

the reality is there is no single car sold in australia that can justify being manufactured if it was only sold here.

The mazda3 and corolla sell 3500 to 4000 units each - big whoop ...think about how many they sell world wide each month. Back in the good old days when aussies really only had limited choices falcon/kingas and commodores could survive... But with however many brands and unlimited models and sub-categories of cars, a main steam car that sells small numbers is pointless.

The reason the falcon is over (commo prob won't be far behind it) is because they don't have a sales footprint that makes sense.

bingo

P6LTD351 · 01-08-2013, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

Im not spinning anything, when was the last time the Falcon was there?

I think the VF looks like an overgrown Epica but that doesnt change the fact that any car selling 3000 per month should be pretty happy and given we are pretty much in a recession then I think its pretty fricken good.

Where is the next best car like it?

Falcon is dead. We know that. The public know that. People aren't going to buy a car that is on death row.

2825 is no reason for celebrating when it is the first new model in 7 years. What happens when the V8 sales dry up?

**Polyal** · 01-08-2013, 09:22 PM

Im still not seeing how 2800 per month is a worry..lets see how it trends before kicking the boot in.

Ford would be happy with that for Falcon and Tez combined.

Smoke Pursuit · 01-08-2013, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P6LTD351

Falcon is dead. We know that. The public know that. People aren't going to buy a car that is on death row.

2825 is no reason for celebrating when it is the first new model in 7 years. What happens when the V8 sales dry up?

You do know they probably built double that for the month? They have 5000 to go to the US, that does not include New Zealand or any other country that plan on exporting to...

I think Holden have done well considering their export program. Ford only export to New Zealand, and their numbers are pretty low.

So you can basically say 600 Falcons verse 6000 commodores (if not more, regardless of where they are sold this is still good for the plant and its employees).

P6LTD351 · 01-08-2013, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

Im still not seeing how 2800 per month is a worry..lets see how it trends before kicking the boot in.

Ford would be happy with that for Falcon and Tez combined.

Let's hope for the workers' sake that they can sustain.

P6LTD351 · 01-08-2013, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DASH GT

You do know they probably built double that for the month? They have 5000 to go to the US, that does not include New Zealand or any other country that plan on exporting to...

I think Holden have done well considering their export program. Ford only export to New Zealand, and their numbers are pretty low.

So you can basically say 600 Falcons verse 6000 commodores (if not more, regardless of where they are sold this is still good for the plant and its employees).

Ah yes, I forgot about the export program where they lose money on each car.

Smoke Pursuit · 01-08-2013, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P6LTD351

Ah yes, I forgot about the export program where they lose money on each car.

Can you be anymore negative?

vztrt · 01-08-2013, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTP owner

It was a short term pain that laid the foundations for a boom period, much the same as the XF marked the progressive decline of the falcon.

Was that before or after they were bailed out when they went bankrupt?

P6LTD351 · 01-08-2013, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Can you be anymore negative?

Sorry, I thought this was a Ford forum.

I have stayed consistent in my stance that I hope the workers have a job. But I cannot help but think Ford fans support Holden in a way that would never be reciprocated.

P6LTD351 · 01-08-2013, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

Was that before or after they were bailed out when they went bankrupt?

Thank you!!! Holden were dead. If only the EA wasn't rushed, it would have been the end of the Commodore.

Smoke Pursuit · 01-08-2013, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P6LTD351

Sorry, I thought this was a Ford forum.

I have stayed consistent in my stance that I hope the workers have a job. But I cannot help but think Ford fans support Holden in a way that would never be reciprocated.

Some of us don't care about badges, but we do care about our aussie mates, which includes workers at both Holden and Toyota as well...

**Polyal** · 01-08-2013, 09:53 PM

Im at odds with it to but as above I dont want to see Aussies get hurt, and ill stick the boot in when its deserved but I honestly think in todays market anyone selling anything at 2800 per month should be happy.

P6LTD351 · 01-08-2013, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Some of us don't care about badges, but we do care about our aussie mates, which includes workers at both Holden and Toyota as well...

I do feel for the workers. No doubt about it.

I just think this whole charade by Holden has been disgusting. I no longer want my tax dollars going to a company that has no intention of staying around for the long haul. And make no mistake, they are gone. It's just a matter of when.

P6LTD351 · 01-08-2013, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

Im at odds with it to but as above I dont want to see Aussies get hurt, and ill stick the boot in when its deserved but I honestly think in todays market anyone selling anything at 2800 per month should be happy.

And that's fair enough mate.

flooded one · 01-08-2013, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P6LTD351

I do feel for the workers. No doubt about it.

I just think this whole charade by Holden has been disgusting. I no longer want my tax dollars going to a company that has no intention of staying around for the long haul. And make no mistake, they are gone. It's just a matter of when.

yep it certainly is. I feel sorry for the workers thou. its not there fault holdens greedy!!

P6LTD351 · 01-08-2013, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Some of us don't care about badges, but we do care about our aussie mates, which includes workers at both Holden and Toyota as well...

And I may be different but I DO care about badges. Bleeding blue blood will do that.

**Polyal** · 01-08-2013, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P6LTD351

And I may be different but I DO care about badges. Bleeding blue blood will do that.

Well your anger at Ford would want to be greater than directed at GM as they did far worse in really doing anything like GM to keep it going.

I agree GM do resort to some dog tactics but they give it a good crack, and have the balls to try new things. The rules are set, GM just push them harder than Ford.

flooded one · 01-08-2013, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P6LTD351

And I may be different but I DO care about badges. Bleeding blue blood will do that.

its called loyalty. I'm a person that will only buy a car I like. so in someways I don't care but I've always loved the ford falcon

flooded one · 01-08-2013, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

Well your anger at Ford would want to be greater than directed at GM as they did far worse in really doing anything like GM to keep it going.

I agree GM do resort to some dog tactics but they give it a good crack, and have the balls to try new things. The rules are set, GM just push them harder than Ford.

they've gone the wrong way about it thou. asking for more money and asking employees too take pay cuts. ford were honest and said where gunna close shop and gave 3 years notice. I don't like what fords done either but its better then Government Motors wanting more money. I understand ford having too close shop here I get that. I just don't like how they never really gave falcon and territory a chance over in the states etc. there was heaps of interest from Americans wanting falcons but no. Ford USA obviously were worried our Aussie built Fords were better and would cannibalise there Taurus sales

LeadFoot81 · 01-08-2013, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTP owner

It was a short term pain that laid the foundations for a boom period, much the same as the XF marked the progressive decline of the falcon.

Short term pain? Foundations? Boom period?

The VB-VL Commodores were hastily cobbled together filler material purveyed by a company that was on a knife's edge. It was Brocky and his Bathurst trophies that kept Holden in the game.

XD's size had everything to do with Ford's success, and VB's size had everything to do with Holden's woes, in the 80's.

By 1988 both Falcon and the Opel 'Commodore' had grown bigger again.

P6LTD351 · 01-08-2013, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

Well your anger at Ford would want to be greater than directed at GM as they did far worse in really doing anything like GM to keep it going.

I agree GM do resort to some dog tactics but they give it a good crack, and have the balls to try new things. The rules are set, GM just push them harder than Ford.

I don't have any anger at Ford. The only one of the big 3 in the US that didn't need to file for bankruptcy. I'm actually proud of them.

Of course I am very unhappy that Ford will no longer manufacture in Australia, but I'm a realist.

I'll be the first to admit that i have been frustrated in the past with Ford's lack of marketing, but now in hindsight, I can see that Ford manage the whole business better. Holden are good at marketing because the Government will end up paying for the advertising!

zilo · 01-08-2013, 10:25 PM

It's all good for exports Holden are on a roll with exports...the dollar has tumbled from $1.10 to $0.89 last night.

that's a 20% + currency crash...in 12 months...

we'll be internationally competitive in no time at this rate....

P6LTD351 · 01-08-2013, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zilo

It's all good for exports Holden are on a roll with exports...the dollar has tumbled from $1.10 to $0.89 last night.

that's a 20% + currency crash...in 12 months...

we'll be internationally competitive in no time at this rate....

LOL, it'll need to get to 60 - 70c and they still won't make money on the small numbers sent to the US. A population of over 300,000,000 and only 5000 cars exported. Great success.

buickman · 01-08-2013, 10:28 PM

Ford has made the commitment until 2016 to manufacture and I cannot see an earlier close up as Ford would have budgeted for the closure either selling volumes or not and getting vehicles to replace the Falcon and Territory in RHD does not happen overnight.

P6LTD351 · 01-08-2013, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buickman

Ford has made the commitment until 2016 to manufacture and I cannot see an earlier close up as Ford would have budgeted for the closure either selling volumes or not and getting vehicles to replace the Falcon and Territory in RHD does not happen overnight.

I hope you're right

naddis01 · 01-08-2013, 10:36 PM

Can we please venture back on track so the thread doesn't get locked before the full numbers are out. Some of us find the numbers interesting.

Bossxr8 · 01-08-2013, 10:43 PM

Once the new car freshness and demand wears off for VF it will sink pretty fast. I'll give it a few months and then its panic stations. Not to mention all the dealer demos they would have registered, the old Holden trick of boosting numbers.

Exports to the US for SS will only be 400 or so a month, 5000 for the year, so fairly small numbers. Not enough to save them, especially with how cheap they are compared to here.

P6LTD351 · 01-08-2013, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naddis01

Can we please venture back on track so the thread doesn't get locked before the full numbers are out. Some of us find the numbers interesting.

It's not ok to discuss and hypothesize the outcome of the numbers? I think there has been respectful debate. No reason the thread should be closed.

Adamz Ghia · 01-08-2013, 11:20 PM

C'mon, what's with the negativity mate?? 2800 is a market as fragmented as today is pretty good. Forget about the days where one model consistently sold 5000+ per month. It's not going to happen again. Instead of bagging the numbers try looking at the bigger picture because The future of manufacturing cars in this country partly depends on VF's success.
Personally I left the Holden is crap no matter what attitude back in high school...

2011G6E · 01-08-2013, 11:31 PM

People should be happy that someone is still bothering to put a dog in the fight of Australian built large sedans.

It's a little like when an Australian sports team gets into some world competition...you mightn't support that team in particular, your own team might have been knocked out in the semi finals, but you still grudgingly cheer for the team that did make it through and manages to keep going, because of what they represent.

I saw an advert on TV a while ago, one of the excellent ones for the VF Commodore and Holden in general, and it started out by saying "Think about this: there are more than 60 car brands on sale in Australia".

60...think of the "choice" we had twenty years ago, or thirty years ago. People are exposed to a far wider choice of vehicles now, truly something for everyone. You're actually hard pressed to find a "bad" car nowadays. They're all good, and the average buyer is a lot better informed than they used to be. Gone are the days of automatically toddling off down to the Ford or Holden dealer for a Falcon on Kingswood (or Commodore) just like dad did and his dad before him, because that's just what was expected of you.
Now most people start looking for a car to suit their needs online, with the hundreds of reviews available, as well as comparisons. Mostly people walk into dealerships with a firm set of requirements, and they know what they want far better than in the old days.

Times change, and more importantly buyers tastes in cars change, and unless car makers understand this, they'll fall by the roadside and be left behind.