Could The GT-HO save Ford?

[Wretched]

No it won't.
Ford have too many problems, a simple new model won't fix that.
They sat on their hands and their heads up their nether regions for too long now they're feeling the pain.

[uranium_death]

Originally Posted by NIK516

ford stuffed them selves up from the very beginning by not calling the company a different name and leaving it and American associated name.

Australian buyers never truly believed or even had a chance to delude them selves that ford was Australian.

holden can always play the Australian theme, thats why ford are now trying to make there car more European rather then Australian.

But to answer the question , NO the gt-ho will have no bearing on anything, the market is moving away from large cars and it will not come back to it until a good replacement is made.

It didn't matter with the X-Series and E-Series of Falcons when the Falcon outsold the Commodore consistently.

If Ford marketed their vehicles as "Ford Australia" rather than just "Ford", perception may be different.

Also, name an "Australian car".

People are looking at imports more than ever, and there's perceived "value" in European brands such as Peugeot, BMW, Mercedes, Renault etc. although I question whether their cars are worth the money. In fact, compare a G6E with a C200 or 318i, and the G6E represents far better bang for buck.

Ford changed their image because people like European styling.

I am sounding like a broken record, but if there was a BMW badge on the FG Falcon, all those shallow morons out there would squirt in their pants with excitement. With a Falcon badge, an immediate judgement is made, and because it doesn't come with a large price, it's considered inferior in every way.

As if being a fuel guzzling V8 matters? You really think any of the buyers of the 427 gave two craps about the fuel economy before purchasing?

If Ford brought out a GTHO they would hope it would be purchased by enthusiasts and get some sort of cult status. If that fails, it's just a pathetic attempt to reinvigorate a classic, resulting in its destruction.

If Ford released a bunch of over priced (in terms of spec terms) GTHO's a fuel guzzling V8 would only work in its favour.

Maybe Ford isn't considered an Australian car, because it's never been one. Holden was started in Australia and was fully Australian owned/built for a good 80 years before it was purchased by a US company.

Ford is more like a Starbucks which burst onto the scene in the 20's, using their American owners name and credentials.

Holden is historically more Australian. What happened post-depression is another story altogether, but the simple facts listed above might be much of the reason Holden is more perceived as more Aussie than Fords, despite both of their multinational ownership.

[Auslandau]

................ and how Australian is Toyota? Luckly they aren't Japanese or they wouldn't be number one!



| [/url] |

[GTP290]

Originally Posted by Shounak

Maybe Ford isn't considered an Australian car, because it's never been one. Holden was started in Australia and was fully Australian owned/built for a good 80 years before it was purchased by a US company.

Ford is more like a Starbucks which burst onto the scene in the 20's, using their American owners name and credentials.

Holden is historically more Australian. What happened post-depression is another story altogether, but the simple facts listed above might be much of the reason Holden is more perceived as more Aussie than Fords, despite both of their multinational ownership.

thats not entirely true, Ford Geelong were making vehicles and exporting them to America and Canada, especially Ford utes, which were made in Geelong.
Holden were lucky enough to have the Holden name instead of Chevrolet and to have a car made for Australia and called the 48-215 or the FX Holden, even though it was designed in Detroit, with the help of a few Aussie engineers.
Ford on the other hand released an American shaped car with the "Falcon" nameplate to tackle Holden, which came later than the Holden and was shaped exactly like the American Falcon, so it wasnt really an all Australian design. But with the introduction of the Commodore, it was the Falcon that was really the Australian Car, as the Commodore was a European car (Opel) with a 6 cylinder Holden motor in its place, but few people realised or even cared it was a European designed car, by then it didnt really matter anymore as Holden had ridden on the success of its previous cars.

[Ives]

I bet you if Ford rolled out a GT-HO, it wont be as significant as the original GT-HO.

I'm simply talking pre-depression. I know about Ford, the ute and all that.

In 1925, Ford was Starbucks and Holden was the true blue Aussie car manufacturer.

As for post-depression. It wasn't luck that had Holden keep its name, it was a good business strategy. People could forget that their Aussie company had gone Yank. Plenty of cereals, milk companies still do this. People think it's an Aussie brand, it maintains its "true-blueness", whilst still being foreign owned.

I'm offering a theory as to why Holden might be perceived as more Aussie than Ford. Not about the relative merits of their current status.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Shounak

I'm simply talking pre-depression. I know about Ford, the ute and all that.

In 1925, Ford was Starbucks and Holden was the true blue Aussie car manufacturer.

As for post-depression. It wasn't luck that had Holden keep its name, it was a good business strategy. People could forget that their Aussie company had gone Yank. Plenty of cereals, milk companies still do this. People think it's an Aussie brand, it maintains its "true-blueness", whilst still being foreign owned.

I'm offering a theory as to why Holden might be perceived as more Aussie than Ford. Not about the relative merits of their current status.

There was no such thing a Holden made car before 1948, they were nothing but motor body builders weren't they, or did they assemble Chevs?,they never made their own cars like Ford were back in the 20's.

[apolloxbgt]

Originally Posted by Shounak

Holden was started in Australia and was fully Australian owned/built for a good 80 years before it was purchased by a US company.

Where do you pull 80 years from?They wernt making cars for 80 years before gm bought them out.

[gtxb67]

ford australia is as australian as holden is. they are both australian branches of an american company. the first so called australian car was just a '46 chev with shortened guards and a '42 oldsmobile engine that was not good enough for any of gm's american brands. it was good enough however for holden and the gullible people of australia who could not afford a ford

I'm not arguing about which is actually more Australian, I know they're pretty damn even.

All I'm saying is that Holden is a company that was founded in Australia mid 1800's. Whereas Ford is a brand that came to Australia in 1920's, sharing the name of its American creator.

I think Ford would've done better if they'd adopted an Australian moniker, or even bought a little Aussie manufacturer for token reasons and used their name.

If that "more Aussie" Ford was weighed up against Chevies sold here, I'd assume we'd have a different playing field. I'd think that the Ford brand would be considered more Australian than the GM US named equivalent.

This is merely a theory, impossible to prove/disprove.

[gtxb67]

i think your theory is totally correct - there are alot of gullible people who consider holden's to be australian and therefore buy holden instead of ford

the only drama is it would not be a ford if it was called anything else. i personally would rather drive a car that has links to one of the smartest and greatest designers and businessman ever than a piece of rubbish that pretends to be what it is not.

Finally, someone who gets what I'm saying.

But Holden use it to their advantage. Holden means a great deal to Australia. Australia this, Australia that.

It's impossible to realise the counterfactuals, but I don't think calling a Ford something else would take anything away from its roots. It merely draws a distinction between the brand sold overseas and the brand here.

Anyway, ex post analysis of counterfactuals is akin to starting in crystal balls.

Could simply releasing a GT-HO save Ford. I think not. If I'm right, it will off Ford owners more than anything.

Why urinate on possibly the most iconic car Ford Australia has ever produced because you're going through a sales slump?

[uranium_death]

Originally Posted by Ives

I bet you if Ford rolled out a GT-HO, it wont be as significant as the original GT-HO.

I wouldn't think so...damn sure of that.

Part of the HO's appeal is the fact that they're so damn expensive, there are so few of them, and it's a fact that people want what somebody else has.

That, along with the Supercar Scare and the HO's role in that, there's history.

It's also taken a bloody long time for people to recognise the GTHO as the real deal when it came to Aussie Muscle.

You bring out a new one, and the mystique and legend is diluted.

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

i think your theory is totally correct - there are alot of gullible people who consider holden's to be australian and therefore buy holden instead of ford.

Gullible people are just the demographic the Holden marketing machine target. What was that song? Football, meat pies Kangaroos and Holden cars. If you asked 99% of people who purchased early Commodores if they’d ever heard of the Opal Senator, I wonder how many of them would have?

[ebxr8240]

They need to make good cars around the size of Mondeo, Focus...
Ford Aust for years didn't have a Mondeo sized car!!
They need to improve there customer relations big time..
Remember when Ford had Escort, Cortina.. Laser, Telsta..
If they where to bring out a herro car ??
Something along the lines of AWD turbo Focus, tuned to run up to 85% ethonol..
At NO more than $40k ...

[ILLaViTaR]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

I doubt if there could be a worse time for Ford to release a model like that....
99.9% of consumers have no interest in such a product..

Possibly not, from what I hear, V8 drivers aren't fussed regarding additional fuel costs.

But then again I haven't talked to every V8 driver in Australia and you yourself seem to have a decent knowledge of V8's.

What I'm trying to say is it won't save Ford, but surely there would be a reasonable market for it (possibly enough to make the model worthwhile)?

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by Full Noise

Gullible people are just the demographic the Holden marketing machine target.

too true - holden always aim to appeal to the lowest common denominator
if there was any soul in the company, it was sold years ago

[LTDHO]

Firstly Ford killed the name 'GT' by making them main stream. So no value there.

Also the cost in developing something as unique as a 'HO' would cost more than they will make back.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

Possibly not, from what I hear, V8 drivers aren't fussed regarding additional fuel costs.

But then again I haven't talked to every V8 driver in Australia and you yourself seem to have a decent knowledge of V8's.

What I'm trying to say is it won't save Ford, but surely there would be a reasonable market for it (possibly enough to make the model worthwhile)?

Your right in that regard, why would you be looking for a V8 if you were worried about fuel prices.

[uranium_death]

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

Possibly not, from what I hear, V8 drivers aren't fussed regarding additional fuel costs.

But then again I haven't talked to every V8 driver in Australia and you yourself seem to have a decent knowledge of V8's.

What I'm trying to say is it won't save Ford, but surely there would be a reasonable market for it (possibly enough to make the model worthwhile)?

The flaw in that point is that V8 drivers only form a tiny part of consumers. As 4VMan said, 99.9% of consumers. He wasn't looking at V8 drivers as an isolated market.

Most consumers are after four cylinders nowadays, with six cylinders still doing okay.

The only people after the HO would be V8 enthusiasts, and given the recent release of the Cobra, F6 R-Spec and GT-40, it wouldn't be strategically good to release a HO as well now.

Even then, many people who once were looking at V8s would have sold theirs due to costs, and new buyers would be fewer than previously.

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

Firstly Ford killed the name 'GT' by making them main stream. So no value there.

Also the cost in developing something as unique as a 'HO' would cost more than they will make back.

Totally disagree there.

The B series GT's have rekindled the passion for the BLUE OVAL becuae they are readily available , affordable and have sold in good numbers. The GT ( grand touring philosophy ) of the car has lived up to its name and has sold in enough numbers to supply enough R & D and amortised expenses for FPV to spawn the F6.

The B series GT cars are an accomplished product line. In fact , I wouldn't be surprised if it outsells the F6 again in FG guise.

The HO on the other hand is an ICON. It can only serve to make or break FPV's image......it will do nothing for sales of the Falcon or any other FPV product because it will not sell in volumes. By nature it NEEDS to be a limited build product unlike the GT that NEEDS to be a volume seller. The GT is to FPV what the Falcon is to FORD.

I also think that many of us ( buying public ) are much more astute than the buying public of 40 years ago. Anyone who would go to a FORD dealership to buy a Falcon just because FPV have built a HO seriously needs to reassess more than their car purchasing habits !!!!!!!

And to add insult to injury for those fools that might....the new HO wouldn't even wear a FORD badge............Those BIG CHROME FPV badges do look good don't they.

[BAxtER]

they could spend all that money on making a GT-HO...get there 351 sales and be done with it. Or the money spent on the GT-HO can instead be part of the money required to make diesel falcons and terris, and create minimum 800 sales extra for the falcon and 800 for the terri?
For the long run, id know what id rather ford do.

[SB076]

Originally Posted by BAxtER

they could spend all that money on making a GT-HO...get there 351 sales and be done with it. Or the money spent on the GT-HO can instead be part of the money required to make diesel falcons and terris, and create minimum 800 sales extra for the falcon and 800 for the terri?
For the long run, id know what id rather ford do.

Not sure about that, recent article in GoAuto suggested that accoridng to some survey Aussie buyers are not that interested in diesels (suggested that people are more interested in Hybrids and Gas)

[Plugg3r]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Id say more like $150-160K like the W427.....

Though the W427 would be a lot more powerful the a GTHO buy the results atm.
The 427 is putting out over 400rwkw stock in yankland.

[Spanrz]

Originally Posted by Full Noise

If you asked 99% of people who purchased early Commodores if they’d ever heard of the Opal Senator, I wonder how many of them would have?

[smartarsecomment]
I haven't seen one of those, never even heard of an Opal Senator. However I did own a VK Commy. Must be rare and worth a lot.

But I have heard of the "OPEL" car. It somehow did resemble the Commodore in a way. Not worth much in today's world.
[/smartarsecomment]

Though, Maybe a GT40 would such a good thing to bring to the road.

[FalconXV]

Use the final iteration of the straight six to fight 427, I say.
GT-HO is too delicate and legendary to use- The colour scheme and blackouts would be cool though, to pay homage.
Ford isn't going to have V8 supremacy in a hurry, so a highly boosted F6 could be the best solution. Can't rely on GT-HO Ford needs new ideas to survive.

[twr7cx]

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

Agree. Won't result in extra sales. News ? yes, sales ? No.

You reckon? Look at the recently released HSV W427 - it's a $155,500 Commodore (the most expensive Australian car ever produced) and it's already sold out (ref http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/Ar...rticleID=55262).
Why couldn't Ford do likewise with a GT-HO to compete against that? Because Ford marketing is up to crap.

[Sourbastard]

I could read this entire thread. But I would want my hour back.

So let me summarize based on the 100 threads before on this subject.

99% of the posters Dont even own the current GT.
99% of the posters couldnt afford a GTHO @ $155,000 if it was released today
99% of the posters are jealous that Holdens brought out the W427 with various references to it that we should copy everything they do.
50% of the posts are about what size supercharger it should have
70% of the posts are about how many kilowatts said fantasy motor should have
50% of the posts are about rumours that a Ford Executive told them in a back alley after swapping money for sex.
1% of the posters are sane and are explaining in large words why its a bad/pointless/stupid idea.

It seems in most of these threads, the only purpose of supporting the idea of a GTHO resurgence, is so the poster can point at their holden mates and have a verbal masturbatorial debate about the virtues of the car they couldnt even afford the Insurance costs on let alone the sticker price. GIVE UP. Just beat them up instead, its cheaper for the economy.