THE 60k CHALLENGE .....

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Aren't most complaining about the fact that you can't buy an XR8. That a ford lover is forced to buy an SS to get their V8 fix if they can't afford to buy a GS.

I guess that point was missed by the OP....

So what is the choice:

1) Make a GS @ $60k
2) Make a XR8 @ 60k
3) Make a XR8 @ $50k that is inferior.

Do you really thing a GS is a $50k XR8 with a $10,000 badge, stripe and starter button kit?

Very few Ford lovers were buying FG XR8s (or even BF XR8s for that matter) when they were available for $50k, why would they suddenly start now?

As I stated earlier, if you REALLY want it you will find a way.

$10k over 5 years is $2k a year or $40 a week or $8 a day.

Although if you don't buy a GS you WILL have the money for a half shot soy latte grande frappachino with extra foam instead of a mug of flat white.......

[fmc351]

$60k, RWD, V8, 300 killer wasps. Cant be done, well almost.


Put up or shut up. Seems simple enough.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

but I understand why many feel the opposite, get into a $33k XR6 and it has the same interior and exterior as the GS. You're not buying the GS for a fancy interior though...

i feel the same when you look at it at face value.

i think ford/fpv will alter the price depending on how people have voted with their feet and wallet. i think ford were stuck between a rock and a hard place. they knew people wanted a cheaper v8, but obviously weren't prepared to (or tooled up to) put the 315 in a falcon. so they basically made an xr8 but added it to the FPV stable. i think personally they then put a price on the badge. to own an FPV, regardless of the vehicle, you must pay a premium.

look at it this way with ford. they offered a v8 before, one that despite all the abuse on here, was very good performance and yet so many opted for the 6T. i guess they figured if people really wanted a v8, with performance that has not only raised the bar but smashed it, they would pay the price.

[pb02]

Originally Posted by flappist

The idea of the thread is simple.

Many people are whinging that the FPV GS is overpriced so obviously if that is the case there must be lots of similar or better products at the same or lower prices.

No one seems to have found one yet.

Bearing in mind that they are quicker across the 0-400m than anything from team B up to and including the 90k GTS.

Maybe they are not so overpriced at all really.......

I have one, although I think a lot of people will dismiss it being that its from the 'other side'..

Patterson Cheney Holden have a RaceSport option for any of the VE 6.0l V8's.
You could get an SS for approx. $47K on road, first upgrade pack is approx. $2K and gives you 300kw. From there you go to 327kw, 350kw, 400kw, and 427kw.
They are all covered by warranty but you do need to service them at Patterson Cheney.
If you do a search you'll find reviews and videos of them doing 13sec passes.

[Fireblade]

GS is good value for under 60k, not what I want in an FPV but undeniably good value, I'd rather pay the extra to get the extra's in a GT. No stock factory car other than the GS is under 60k with your set criteria, F6 comes close but without the 8, but people's wallets have spoken there and even that doesn't sell well, any car is crap when you can't afford to buy it, trust me, Lamborghini's are crap too

[flappist]

Originally Posted by pb02

I have one, although I think a lot of people will dismiss it being that its from the 'other side'..

Patterson Cheney Holden have a RaceSport option for any of the VE 6.0l V8's.
You could get an SS for approx. $47K on road, first upgrade pack is approx. $2K and gives you 300kw. From there you go to 327kw, 350kw, 400kw, and 427kw.
They are all covered by warranty but you do need to service them at Patterson Cheney.
If you do a search you'll find reviews and videos of them doing 13sec passes.

Holden are the factory for that car and will not honour that warranty.

There are a squillion after market upgraders who will honour every warranty right up until you need to actually claim on them.

And even if you say that they do here is the actual point.

YOU buy a Holden Commodore SS THEN they upgrade it, THEY do not sell you a new "Patterson Cheney Race Sport" as there is no such vehicle.

When you buy a HSV you buy a HSV not an SS that has been modified.
Same as when you buy a FPV you do not but a XR6/8 that has been modified.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by prydey

i feel the same when you look at it at face value.

i think ford/fpv will alter the price depending on how people have voted with their feet and wallet. i think ford were stuck between a rock and a hard place. they knew people wanted a cheaper v8, but obviously weren't prepared to (or tooled up to) put the 315 in a falcon. so they basically made an xr8 but added it to the FPV stable. i think personally they then put a price on the badge. to own an FPV, regardless of the vehicle, you must pay a premium.

look at it this way with ford. they offered a v8 before, one that despite all the abuse on here, was very good performance and yet so many opted for the 6T. i guess they figured if people really wanted a v8, with performance that has not only raised the bar but smashed it, they would pay the price.

There was a rather interesting thread not too long ago which showed how close Ford came to releasing the GS under the Ford brand as the XR8, it was registered and everything, then it changed in July 2010.

[pb02]

Originally Posted by flappist

Holden are the factory for that car and will not honour that warranty.

There are a squillion after market upgraders who will honour every warranty right up until you need to actually claim on them.

And even if you say that they do here is the actual point.

YOU buy a Holden Commodore SS THEN they upgrade it, THEY do not sell you a new "Patterson Cheney Race Sport" as there is no such vehicle.

When you buy a HSV you buy a HSV not an SS that has been modified.
Same as when you buy a FPV you do not but a XR6/8 that has been modified.

Fair enough, but you have to admit it ticks almost all the boxes you listed, the big one being 3yr 100,000km warranty.
I do see your point but when I came across this I thought it was a pretty good option. Almost like the 70's special dealer order cars from the US dealers.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

There was a rather interesting thread not too long ago which showed how close Ford came to releasing the GS under the Ford brand as the XR8, it was registered and everything, then it changed in July 2010.

actually, i think what would help is if FPV gave it a FPV front end. maybe if it 'looked' more like a FPV....

[flappist]

Originally Posted by pb02

Fair enough, but you have to admit it ticks almost all the boxes you listed, the big one being 3yr 100,000km warranty.
I do see your point but when I came across this I thought it was a pretty good option. Almost like the 70's special dealer order cars from the US dealers.

Yes almost.

The point here is that the FPV GS is the CHEAPEST 300++kw full size sedan available in Australia.

If it is too expensive for someones budget then EVERYTHING is too expensive for that budget.
Complaining that it should be cheaper because you can't afford it is just sooking.

It is interesting to compare a FG GS to a BA GT (actually to a BA2 GT as it was a significant improvement).

They are both about the same is gadgets with basic brakes and a big V8. The only major differences other than the chassis are that the GS has a much more powerful engine and costs less despite the across the board increase in vehicle costs over the intervening 6 years.

The only "mistake" I believe that FPV made with the GS was to have "standard looking" brakes instead of fitting blue covers and slotted disks like they did with the BA FPVs vs BA XR8T/8 with performance brake option.

[pb02]

Originally Posted by flappist

Yes almost.

The point here is that the FPV GS is the CHEAPEST 300++kw full size sedan available in Australia.

If it is too expensive for someones budget then EVERYTHING is too expensive for that budget.
Complaining that it should be cheaper because you can't afford it is just sooking.

That seems to be the problem. Too many people these days want a performance family sports sedan wagon hatch with a big V8 rear wheel drive with the fuel economy of a small car but still be able to tow a big boat............. oh, and it has to be as cheap as all the cars that don't have any of that...

[mik]

Originally Posted by pb02

That seems to be the problem. Too many people these days want a performance family sports sedan wagon hatch with a big V8 rear wheel drive with the fuel economy of a small car but still be able to tow a big boat............. oh, and it has to be as cheap as all the cars that don't have any of that...

yes thats about the size of it pb02, and it seems especially relevant to members of this forum .

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by pb02

That seems to be the problem. Too many people these days want a performance family sports sedan wagon hatch with a big V8 rear wheel drive with the fuel economy of a small car but still be able to tow a big boat............. oh, and it has to be as cheap as all the cars that don't have any of that...

Yep ... agreeing., Hit the nail with that one.

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

If Ford gave them the right XR8 it would have sold. Do you think Ford can put an XR8 badge on anything and BAM it runs out of the showroom? Buyers aren't that stupid, most of them either went red or bought a turbo.

And the GS argument, alot of people wanted a cut price FPV, not an expensive XR. I think the GS is good value but I understand why many feel the opposite, get into a $33k XR6 and it has the same interior and exterior as the GS. You're not buying the GS for a fancy interior though...

What's the right V8 Adrenaline ? How is an SS soo much better than the FG XR8 ? Truth is buyers went for the inline six turbo because the performance makes normally aspirated versions from both camps look a bit anemic, so buyers deserted the XR8 in droves because the inline six was better and signifcantly more fuel efficient.

Now we have a SC V8 that lifts the bar and the same people are complaining about the cost. Regarding the interior if people want a better interior they need to ante-up for a GT-E or GT-P.

Real world rolling accleration 80-120 k.p.h. $70K GT 2.51 seconds Holdung's so-called special vehicles $150,000 W#nk 427 3.20 seconds

[Fireblade]

Truth is Rodge, Ford is mostly competing with in its own customer base, most Holden owners wouldn't even contemplate a Ford, the GT could have a quad turbo V12 under the hood putting out eleventy billion kilowatts and most Holden owners wouldn't even give it a look, FPV gave what most here wanted originally was cut price base model V8 that went like stink and they got it with the GS and most still aren't happy with it. I think the only omission would be brembo brakes that would make it a better package, but most FPV buyers previously didn't option these and lead us to what we have now.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by pb02

That seems to be the problem. Too many people these days want a performance family sports sedan wagon hatch with a big V8 rear wheel drive with the fuel economy of a small car but still be able to tow a big boat............. oh, and it has to be as cheap as all the cars that don't have any of that...

and.. there we have it. buy this man a beer.

[dimka100]

Performance cars are not just about lots of power and straight-line speed, that may be great for bogans but I really hope that Ford & FPV aspire to bigger and better things …

In reality FPV needs to seriously relook at their Suspension/Wheel setup to match what majority of the world perceives as a performance car.

I have a new FG XR6 NA riding on 19inch wheels, and it has far too much body roll, it can’t put the power to the ground in the slow corners (and that’s with NA I6), it moves too much under brakes (crappy NA 6 brakes), and its shocks do not absorb bumps as well as I would expect them to hence loosing traction …

For a Family car ford has great suspension and handling performance, for a performance car – well it’s definitely not! Same applies to FPVs …

[prydey]

Originally Posted by dimka100

Performance cars are not just about lots of power and straight-line speed, that may be great for bogans but I really hope that Ford & FPV aspire to bigger and better things …

In reality FPV needs to seriously relook at their Suspension/Wheel setup to match what majority of the world perceives as a performance car.

I have a new FG XR6 NA riding on 19inch wheels, and it has far too much body roll, it can’t put the power to the ground in the slow corners (and that’s with NA I6), it moves too much under brakes (crappy NA 6 brakes), and its shocks do not absorb bumps as well as I would expect them to hence loosing traction …

For a Family car ford has great suspension and handling performance, for a performance car – well it’s definitely not! Same applies to FPVs …

in my opinion (and probably fords too) the n/a xr6 is not a performance car.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by prydey

in my opinion (and probably fords too) the n/a xr6 is not a performance car.

No Im pretty sure its seen as a entry level private buyers car...they woudnt touch the XT given the prices at the moment.

[stang65]

Yep if it`s got no turbo or doesn`t have 8 cylinders and it has the same output as the base model 6 you can`t really call it performance.

[Grunter]

I don't get why Ford/FPV cannot be critiqued, especially on a Ford based forums. I also don’t get all the agro aimed at those who disagree with what they consider value (from both ends, no matter how out there), vs those who don’t. If there are so many people (real buyers or not) who think the GS doesn’t offer value to them, it doesn’t make them wrong. Conversely those who think it is great value, doesn’t make them wrong.

I think it might just be easier to accept that I’m always right and if Ford/FPV follow my views, they will be doing the right thing for all. Will save a lot of members here getting cut up with ours views.

Not everyone has the same idea on what makes up a good value car. And there is no doubt the GS is a ripper (assuming performance is one of your main goals for purchasing a car) for the money, but to me it is floating around in no man’s land a little in comparison to its competitors as a total value package.

It’s interesting to compare features, performance and price on the top FPV offering verses others out there. This is the area I feel FPV are a little short in, as a total package. Ironically I used to bag FPV for pushing the total performance mantra when they had the old 5.4, but now whilst I know they have a cracking drivetrain, I feel they have been left behind in other areas (interior features, available options, etc).

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Grunter

I don't get why Ford/FPV cannot be critiqued, especially on a Ford based forums. I also don’t get all the agro aimed at those who disagree with what they consider value (from both ends, no matter how out there), vs those who don’t. If there are so many people (real buyers or not) who think the GS doesn’t offer value to them, it doesn’t make them wrong. Conversely those who think it is great value, doesn’t make them wrong.

I think it might just be easier to accept that I’m always right and if Ford/FPV follow my views, they will be doing the right thing for all. Will save a lot of members here getting cut up with ours views.

Not everyone has the same idea on what makes up a good value car. And there is no doubt the GS is a ripper (assuming performance is one of your main goals for purchasing a car) for the money, but to me it is floating around in no man’s land a little in comparison to its competitors as a total value package.

It’s interesting to compare features, performance and price on the top FPV offering verses others out there. This is the area I feel FPV are a little short in, as a total package. Ironically I used to bag FPV for pushing the total performance mantra when they had the old 5.4, but now whilst I know they have a cracking drivetrain, I feel they have been left behind in other areas (interior features, available options, etc).

110% agreed, I couldnt have said it better myself.

Critique and praise comes all from the same spot, a passion for the brand as all we want is for it to achieve the success it deserves.

[Grunter]

EDIT: Weird, my original post is gone after editting it

I don't get why Ford/FPV cannot be critiqued, especially on a Ford based forums. I also don’t get all the agro aimed at those who disagree with what they consider value (from both ends, no matter how out there), vs those who don’t. If there are so many people (real buyers or not) who think the GS doesn’t offer value to them, it doesn’t make them wrong. Conversely those who think it is great value, doesn’t make them wrong.

I think it might just be easier to accept that I’m always right and if Ford/FPV follow my views, they will be doing the right thing for all. Will save a lot of members here getting cut up with differing views.

Not everyone has the same idea on what makes up a good value car. And there is no doubt the GS is a ripper (assuming performance is one of your main goals for purchasing a car) for the money, but to me it is floating around in no man’s land a little in comparison to its competitors as a total value package.

It’s interesting to compare features, performance and price on the top FPV offering verses others out there. This is the area I feel FPV are a little short in, as a total package. Ironically I used to bag FPV for pushing the total performance mantra when they had the old 5.4, but now whilst I know they have a cracking drivetrain, I feel they have been left behind in other areas (interior features, available options, etc).

[flappist]

Originally Posted by stang65

Yep if it`s got no turbo or doesn`t have 8 cylinders and it has the same output as the base model 6 you can`t really call it performance.

So if it has 8 cylinders but has the same performance as a base model it is also not a performance vehicle?

Or how about it has 8 cylinders but is slower than the N/A 6?

There is a LOT more to performance than just the engine output.

People buy what the want to buy, to some engine is everything, to others handling, and to others it can be a mixture of both or neither.

[stang65]

the XR6 NA is purely cosmetic... I`ll leave it at that... I know you too well to go any further. I do love some of your work though.

[Poetic Justice]

Well to build on that, you simply need to reiterate that it is a package.

Having only glanced over this thread, and not really getting too far into the FPV GS debate, I can only imagine too many seem to be frustrated that they are forking out the 50-60k for an FPV badged vehicle that simply does not look like an FPV. Sure, it has stripes that help me to figure it out and a decal on its rear spoiler... but I'd be willing to bet that the same package sans FPV badge could probably be sold for $49,990 as an XR8.

Now tell me, given I don't really have any interest in the GS at all, what is different between an early FG XR8 and the current FPV GS? Other than the motor, of course?

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by SCUD

Now tell me, given I don't really have any interest in the GS at all, what is different between an early FG XR8 and the current FPV GS? Other than the motor, of course?

Apart from the motor? Stickers & badges ..... and enough mumbo to go WOO HOO!

[Josh_XC]

Maloo GXP? That was around 60K wasent it and it had the R8 engine didn't it?

[stang65]

Originally Posted by SCUD

Well to build on that, you simply need to reiterate that it is a package.

Having only glanced over this thread, and not really getting too far into the FPV GS debate, I can only imagine too many seem to be frustrated that they are forking out the 50-60k for an FPV badged vehicle that simply does not look like an FPV. Sure, it has stripes that help me to figure it out and a decal on its rear spoiler... but I'd be willing to bet that the same package sans FPV badge could probably be sold for $49,990 as an XR8.

Now tell me, given I don't really have any interest in the GS at all, what is different between an early FG XR8 and the current FPV GS? Other than the motor, of course?

Yep a better motor maybe worth a couple K over the old one and say 5 to 8k for the supercharger. I reckon the GS is awesome value, if you spent this 10k going aftermarket and installing a supercharger and mods you lose your factory warranty. so $50k + 10K for super charger and mods vs GS 60K and full warrantyand factory and resale etc.

[SSD-85]

You would think that the low price tag of a GS would mean dropping the N/A 5.0L into an XR8 would provide immense value for money.