The gradual removal of the "average/family" enthusiast choice

[Swordie]

Ford Fiesta ST would be a fun car. They are highly rated.

To meet your requirements an other option is two cars. For example a Falcon and a fun manual 4cyl.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Swordie

Ford Fiesta ST would be a fun car. They are highly rated.

To meet your requirements an other option is two cars. For example a Falcon and a fun manual 4cyl.

yes they are a hoot but a fraction to small, 4 kids are not getting any smaller so I wanted to stay at a medium size at least.

I have thought about that, but for now Im trying to avoid 3 fully registered cars.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Polyal

or even a Chrysler 300. The latter saw examples with 50,000-80,000kms go for $25k which is alot of car for the coin (second gen)....but I am still chasing those manual feels.

Will end in tears, there's a reason Chrysler products sell for cents on the dollar

Minor service, that'll be eleventy bazillion dollars please sir.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

MA/MB Mondeo XR5s pop up from time to time

6sp manual
2.5L Volvo I5T
FWD but made by Ford Europe so its not a complete potato
Similar dimensions to Falcon internally, but narrower.
Diesel torque at the same low RPM but without potato spec power

At the moment the ones available for sale have high kilometers but sometimes a good low mileage example pops up.

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...-7374084/?Cr=0

They're generally much cheaper, a bit bigger than Focus XR5 Turbo and less likely to be modified as well.

Low mileage example has popped up - its an MB as well which has some niceties like Bixenon headlights:

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...12107648/?Cr=0

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Low mileage example has popped up - its an MB as well which has some niceties like Bixenon headlights:

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...12107648/?Cr=0

That's a lot of car for the money, low km also
And that engine

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by DJM83

That's a lot of car for the money, low km also
And that engine

Fat torque band there - peak torque at 1500 RPM all the way to 4800 RPM, be nice to drive.

Throw a 3" turbo back exhaust on it, maybe sneaky front mount intercooler and induction setup.



That 5 cylinder engine sounds mint, its no fart cannon like 4 and 6 cylinder cars.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Fat torque band there - peak torque at 1500 RPM all the way to 4800 RPM, be nice to drive.

Throw a 3" turbo back exhaust on it, maybe sneaky front mount intercooler and induction setup.



That 5 cylinder engine sounds mint, its no fart cannon like 4 and 6 cylinder cars.

I do not need any convincing on how tractable they are or how good they sound
Its the car i miss the most from all ive owned
Ill cop some flack, but show me a better exhaust note

@4:03 the MK2 and MK3 sound off. The Mk3 just sounds horrible in comparison to the MK2

[Sprintey]

Those do sound very horn.

Wonder if I could get the same sound out of a TD5 Discovery 2?

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by DJM83

That's a lot of car for the money, low km also
And that engine

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Low mileage example has popped up - its an MB as well which has some niceties like Bixenon headlights:

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...12107648/?Cr=0

Righto Ill do some you-tubing on modded Mondeo's. While I never owned one I always wanted a ST24 when I was on my P's and when I was with Ford I got to drive an imported ST220 a couple of times which I loved.

Im in VIC on the 30th and will be checking out the Euro R, happy to pop my thoughts up if anyone is interested.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Righto Ill do some you-tubing on modded Mondeo's. While I never owned one I always wanted a ST24 when I was on my P's and when I was with Ford I got to drive an imported ST220 a couple of times which I loved.

Im in VIC on the 30th and will be checking out the Euro R, happy to pop my thoughts up if anyone is interested.

Keen to hear your thoughts on the Euro R

2.5L Volvo I5T responds well to the basics, air intake, intercooler, 3" turbo back exhaust and tune.

Will support turbo upgrade as well, in factory form it's fairly stout compared to earlier Volvo 2.3L I5T in things like Volvo 850R - one of my work colleagues has a Volvo 850R wagon with that engine.

Chuck a Borg Warner EFR 6253 on it

[Franco Cozzo]

One of our own has a decent rig for sale too

https://fordforums.com.au/showpost.p...49&postcount=1

Again FWD, but at the price, I reckon its a good buy

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

One of our own has a decent rig for sale too

https://fordforums.com.au/showpost.p...49&postcount=1

Again FWD, but at the price, I reckon its a good buy

Yep great price, but we sold it today.

[Crazy Dazz]

I nolonger look at new cars much, but I have noticed that with a few notable exceptions, they've all become a bit "blah" and indistinguishable.

Yes, I still enjoy driving my (manual) XR4.

However we should also remember that many of yesterday's "S-Packs" and "SSS"s were nothing but sticker packs.
But again with some notable exceptions.

Something that has annoyed me increasing for the past couple of decades, was the increasing trend of trying to sell multiple "trim levels" (with huge jumps in price) that were in fact identical in all major facets (mechanicals and major accessories)
So yes, the reality has become for most cars, the different models are all mechanically identical.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Something that has annoyed me increasing for the past couple of decades, was the increasing trend of trying to sell multiple "trim levels" (with huge jumps in price) that were in fact identical in all major facets (mechanicals and major accessories)
So yes, the reality has become for most cars, the different models are all mechanically identical.

Not sure this has really changed at all?

past couple of decades ie 20 years ago there was the VX commodore and AU Falcon. pretty sure both of those came with 2 engine options and a lot of trim models

Corollas had one engine now they have more.
todays Euros have multiple engine options per model

I could go on.. but if you have examples of a car sold today that had more options 20 years ago let us know.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Vesper Martini

Not sure this has really changed at all?

past couple of decades ie 20 years ago there was the VX commodore and AU Falcon. pretty sure both of those came with 2 engine options and a lot of trim models

Corollas had one engine now they have more.
todays Euros have multiple engine options per model

I could go on.. but if you have examples of a car sold today that had more options 20 years ago let us know.

3 engine options if you include the supercharged V6 and VCT 4.0.
Not to mention a huge range with distinguishable features that went beyond a sticker pack.
Corolla had a proper sport model back then with the 1.8 Celica engine. Actually most models had proper sport trim and different mechanicals that was a cut above the entry level it was based on, unlike most on offer today bar the high end Euro stuff.
Now we get identical cars mechanically to the base models with blacked out wheels or chrome trim and some tacky name trying to pass off as sport models.

SSS Pulsar was more than a sticker pack with the SR20, 4 wheel disc brakes and larger tyres. It was competitive in production based racing too.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by smoo

3 engine options if you include the supercharged V6 and VCT 4.0.
Not to mention a huge range with distinguishable features that went beyond a sticker pack.
Corolla had a proper sport model back then with the 1.8 Celica engine. Actually most models had proper sport trim and different mechanicals that was a cut above the entry level it was based on, unlike most on offer today bar the high end Euro stuff.
Now we get identical cars mechanically to the base models with blacked out wheels or chrome trim and some tacky name trying to pass off as sport models.

SSS Pulsar was more than a sticker pack with the SR20, 4 wheel disc brakes and larger tyres. It was competitive in production based racing too.

sticker packs were around in 2000 too. nothings changed there
I was asking what car sold now has less options than it did 20 years ago.
Pulsar is no longer made - so lets look at the current Corolla it seems to have 8 engine options.. but its more than that Toyota have more car models to choose than ever before
bad example

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Vesper Martini

sticker packs were around in 2000 too. nothings changed there
I was asking what car sold now has less options than it did 20 years ago.
Pulsar is no longer made - so lets look at the current Corolla it seems to have 8 engine options.. but its more than that Toyota have more car models to choose than ever before
bad example

Not really, the Celica powered Corolla was the range topper around 20 years ago, they have more engine choices now but what are they… all mundane examples geared towards grandma going for a Sunday cruise at 80k in the passing lane, not aimed for the enthusiast. Sign of the times.
The market was different back then, cars in that segment didn’t have many boxes to tick, people who wanted all the options had to go Euro 3 series/C Class/ Peugeot 406/Holden Vectra etc or Fairmont Ghia/Calais.
What makers did offer back then was a decent performance version of those cars, unlike now.

[Vesper Martini]

You seem to be going off topic to what I responded to Crazys post.
are you saying you want a performance model Corolla

lets do this..
I think you are talking about the Corolla with the 2ZZ engine?

Toyota Corolla Sportivo (Australia, 189 hp (141 kW; 192 PS)/180 N⋅m (133 lbf⋅ft))
This car did 0-100 in 8.4 secs

in 2021 you can go and buy the 86 which is slightly quicker

I can't find the specs of a current corolla but I think the ZR Hybrid is a lot quicker and they don't look too bad IMO

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Vesper Martini

You seem to be going off topic to what I responded to Crazys post.
are you saying you want a performance model Corolla

lets do this..
I think you are talking about the Corolla with the 2ZZ engine?

Toyota Corolla Sportivo (Australia, 189 hp (141 kW; 192 PS)/180 N⋅m (133 lbf⋅ft))
This car did 0-100 in 8.4 secs

in 2021 you can go and buy the 86 which is slightly quicker

I can't find the specs of a current corolla but I think the ZR Hybrid is a lot quicker and they don't look too bad IMO

Right, assumption that the options in question was in line with the thread topic, ‘enthusiasts choice’. Are you meaning options that are a gimmick like infotainment tech or ones that compensate for driver incompetence like blind spot assist etc…

That reads like a Wheels acceleration time. As they were slower than a wet week. Google says Celica with the same running gear does it in around 7 seconds. But regardless, comparing performance spec to vehicles decades apart has no relevance. Back then that Corolla was one of many affordable hot hatches, which is a segment that has died off along with interest in enthusiast choice vehicles.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by smoo

Right, assumption that the options in question was in line with the thread topic, ‘enthusiasts choice’. Are you meaning options that are a gimmick like infotainment tech or ones that compensate for driver incompetence like blind spot assist etc…

That reads like a Wheels acceleration time. As they were slower than a wet week. Google says Celica with the same running gear does it in around 7 seconds. But regardless, comparing performance spec to vehicles decades apart has no relevance. Back then that Corolla was one of many affordable hot hatches, which is a segment that has died off along with interest in enthusiast choice vehicles.

We are 3 pages in with this thread rarely are they on topic by that stage, and I was quoting Crazy Dazz, why would you assume, maybe read my post first.

anyway.. I don't think Corolla ever had the fame of a hot hatch, you've picked out an obscure model not around for very long that had ok power but they were never quick, I think its missing a turbo..
Now if the make the Rumored GR Corolla that will be a hot Hatch

[FTE217]

The ol AE82 twin cam Rolla from memory was one of their better lets say performance models that young uns liked buying.

Back on topic, I struggle finding many subjects to consider a performance daily in 6cyc form barring spending euro dollars.
Yes yes I know there is many 2.0/2.whatever L T's etcetc I have one.
Still doesn't have that bigger engine feel I like.
Looking ahead - be it a mid size SUV/sedan - pref SUV performance.
Tiguan R looks impressive but I loath VW and its not 6pack.
I'd consider another Dual Cab but Ranger V6 I'd be so far behind the que would be next year till I got one.
I paln to update by June so I'm looking around but its not easy anymore.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by FTE217

The ol AE82 twin cam Rolla from memory was one of their better lets say performance models that young uns liked buying.

with the 4AGE we used to call them Buzz Box's back in NZ. same engine as the MR2 & AE86, pretty rare to find one in Australia though they were all imports

Originally Posted by FTE217

Back on topic, I struggle finding many subjects to consider a performance daily in 6cyc form barring spending euro dollars.
Yes yes I know there is many 2.0/2.whatever L T's etcetc I have one.
Still doesn't have that bigger engine feel I like.
Looking ahead - be it a mid size SUV/sedan - pref SUV performance.
Tiguan R looks impressive but I loath VW and its not 6pack.
I'd consider another Dual Cab but Ranger V6 I'd be so far behind the que would be next year till I got one.
I paln to update by June so I'm looking around but its not easy anymore.

quick v6 Sedan? stinger or the 300HP Camry..
for SUVs hard to go past Audi or BMW but $$- the Tiguan just doesn't look right for me.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Vesper Martini

with the 4AGE we used to call them Buzz Box's back in NZ. same engine as the MR2 & AE86, pretty rare to find one in Australia though they were all imports


quick v6 Sedan? stinger or the 300HP Camry..
for SUVs hard to go past Audi or BMW but $$- the Tiguan just doesn't look right for me.

Didn't they drop the V6 Camry last year?

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Didn't they drop the V6 Camry last year?

actually yeah they did, & Stinger ends soon too.

Funny trying to show there is choice in new cars but turns out nobody is buying them anyway..

[FTE217]

forget Camry/never and yes its gone.
Stinger.....even though its not bad but in that - could I would I mind set.
New on $70k or bouts and you think can I pay that for a KIA.
Yes they are a good car today But I'd sooner look at low k pre owned fugly Lexus in 6cyc at that kind of $ or abouts.
They are not everyones cup of tea but damn reliable and quality plus and smarter buy.
They go might I add...my old man has had a Lexus for some years now, never miss's a beat. After all the BM/MB's he had it kills them re ownership experience.
Check this 2door and lovely colour
https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...1973164/?Cr=17
4door
https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...2160684/?Cr=20
https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...0396176/?Cr=27

I'll keep searching.

[Cav]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Everything ends in Falcon/Commodore or Territory regardless how it starts

I'm putting a vote in for an Ecoboost Falcon, its the redheaded stepchild of the Falcon range and thus, cheap(er).

I've owned lots of Falcons (mostly 6s) and Fairlanes (mostly V8s) over the years.

I currently have an FG XR6 ute that will see me out and we have just traded the Territory (diesel AWD) for a Kia Sportage SX+ (diesel AWD) and I'll be 80 when the warranty runs out unless I petered out before then.

I don't need the Sportage for towing, so it is vastly superior to the Territory in all other ways.

If you want a good used car then hesitation is not your friend. I bought the ute based on pictures and talking to the owner 18 months ago - a 2009 model, 60,000kms and in mint condition. I paid $17,000 for it, probably $5,000 more than I wanted to pay. They would not budge on price and I knew it would sell quickly.

Late last year, Shannons upped the insurance value on the ute to $20,000

Because of the silly market, I see some blokes now asking $25,000 for FG NA and insane prices for turbos.

I am a very happy camper with these cars:

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Vesper Martini

We are 3 pages in with this thread rarely are they on topic by that stage, and I was quoting Crazy Dazz, why would you assume, maybe read my post first.

anyway.. I don't think Corolla ever had the fame of a hot hatch, you've picked out an obscure model not around for very long that had ok power but they were never quick, I think its missing a turbo..
Now if the make the Rumored GR Corolla that will be a hot Hatch

The Corolla example was used to correct your 'one engine' statement. Considering Toyota made a hot hatch version of the Corolla in the '00s is further proof of the point Crazy Dazz was making and the one you misinterpret - nowadays it is different trim levels with identical mechanicals. Suits the house wives and retiring boomers. Useless for enthusiasts.

But yeah, a better example to get Dazzas point across would be Renault Clio Sport, Peugeot 206/306 GTi, Holden Barina/Astra SRi, Civic VTiR, Accord Euro R, Mondeo ST30 etc.

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by Cav

I've owned lots of Falcons (mostly 6s) and Fairlanes (mostly V8s) over the years.

I currently have an FG XR6 ute that will see me out and we have just traded the Territory (diesel AWD) for a Kia Sportage SX+ (diesel AWD) and I'll be 80 when the warranty runs out unless I petered out before then.

I don't need the Sportage for towing, so it is vastly superior to the Territory in all other ways.

If you want a good used car then hesitation is not your friend. I bought the ute based on pictures and talking to the owner 18 months ago - a 2009 model, 60,000kms and in mint condition. I paid $17,000 for it, probably $5,000 more than I wanted to pay. They would not budge on price and I knew it would sell quickly.

Late last year, Shannons upped the insurance value on the ute to $20,000

Because of the silly market, I see some blokes now asking $25,000 for FG NA and insane prices for turbos.

I am a very happy camper with these cars:

image

image

LOVE the colour of the Sportage!

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by FTE217

forget Camry/never and yes its gone.
Stinger.....even though its not bad but in that - could I would I mind set.
New on $70k or bouts and you think can I pay that for a KIA.
Yes they are a good car today But I'd sooner look at low k pre owned fugly Lexus in 6cyc at that kind of $ or abouts.
They are not everyones cup of tea but damn reliable and quality plus and smarter buy.
They go might I add...my old man has had a Lexus for some years now, never miss's a beat. After all the BM/MB's he had it kills them re ownership experience.
Check this 2door and lovely colour
https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...1973164/?Cr=17
4door
https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...2160684/?Cr=20
https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...0396176/?Cr=27

I'll keep searching.

I know as car enthusiasts we are supposed to hate Lexus, but a V6 IS350 would shame many so called sport sedans. The turbo 4 poppers have torque but are somewhat soul-less in the way they operate..........I say that with a 2.0 Turbo in the garage. A naturally aspirated 6 on the other hand would be a nice thing to play with on a daily basis.

Also if your game, the Genesis G70 is supposed to very good also.
https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/genesis/g70/

[jstanovic]

Manual, AWD, 190kW, 10.5L/100km

2007, 82,000km, $16,800

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...-7276051/?Cr=1

2006, 74,000k, $19,750

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...-7439122/?Cr=3