REAL Australian cars?

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by foxtrot3

The purvis eureka was a failed english kit car called a nova

A bit of history on the Nova/Eureka....

http://www.sterlingkitcars.com/histo...module_nv.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nova_(kit_car)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purvis_Eureka

[RedHotGT]

Well, after reading through a few of these posts - I can only think of one car that matches MOST of the criteria to make it a 'REAL' Australian Car.

1) Ford XA Falcon Ute - Based on the fact that the XA was 'All Australian' designed and made - and based on the fact that this is a 'UTE' and not a sedan.


2) Max Rockatansky's Coupe - Based on the fact that - well its an instantly recognizable car all around the world - and thought of as Australian.


Feel free to discuss and disagree with me

[KIWI-1]

Firstly, thanks to all those members who have contributedconstructively to this thread. Always good to expand ones knowledge.

To those who have asked about the NZ automotive industry, I onlyknew of kit cars until I found this!
There is debate about who made the first petrol drivenvehicle. Timaru engineer Cecil Wood made a petrol engine in 1897, but latermade an unsubstantiated claim to have to have created and driven a three wheelvehicle in 1896 followed by a four wheel vehicle in 1898. His firstindependently confirmed vehicles date from 1901.

On 3 May 1898 a Nelson newspaper reported that a Mr Sewellof the Buller had constructed a motor car and was to drive it to Wakefield thatweek. A letter to the Evening Post's editor later that year stated that therewere two engineering firms in Wellington constructing motor car engines.Whether Wood, Sewell, or the engineering firms made a roadworthy vehicle atthis time is not known.
The first New Zealand designed and constructed automobileknown to have run was made by Frederick Dennison and driven from Christchurchto Oamaru in July 1900. It was the only one made and was destroyed by fire onits return journey. A replica of this car was completed and driven in June 2000in celebration of its first journey.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automot...in_New_Zealand

I think the oldest car in NZ would be the 1895 Benz Velo at that Len Southward's museum http://southwardcarmuseum.co.nz/index.html.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by buickman

The Blackwood project was the XD Falcon but that had a lot of Ford Granada ideas into it from Europe with the Aussie X/Flow head on the the US designed block. The XA Ford would be the !st Falcon with mainly Aussie input.

Yep...look at a Ford Granada from the same period and you'll be surprised. The difference was that English Fords were usually much narrower than the Fords we got here. The English Ford Scorpio was seriously considered for a while to replace Falcon here, but they would have had to cut it down the middle and stitch in 6" at least to make it acceptable to our sensibilities.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by 302 XC

I dont get all the chev badge hating .....
When i was a wee fella chev badges used to adorn HQs and the likes
Wasnt the last holden V8 as such the 5L ???
Pritty sure ol mate Larry Perkins won bathurst with the only holden V8 in the race the rest were, wait for it, chev powered

It's definitely lost its meaning. Putting a Chev badge on a Holden used to be a way of letting people know they weren't messing with a 202 or 308.

Even in the late 90s when Holden introduced the LS1 I guess people put them on for that reason too. Now it's just a **** factor especially p platers with V6s. The L98 isn't even a Chev motor. It's one massive misconception. Like how people think LS1s are 350ci.

My VZ has an LS1, but I'll roll over and die before putting a Chev badge on it. Proud it dawns the Holden lion.

[noosacuda]

VH (and onwards) Valiants were 96% Australian content, highest for the era. Some electricals and lifters were U.S made.

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by Ryan

It's definitely lost its meaning. Putting a Chev badge on a Holden used to be a way of letting people know they weren't messing with a 202 or 308.

Even in the late 90s when Holden introduced the LS1 I guess people put them on for that reason too. Now it's just a **** factor especially p platers with V6s. The L98 isn't even a Chev motor. It's one massive misconception. Like how people think LS1s are 350ci.

My VZ has an LS1, but I'll roll over and die before putting a Chev badge on it. Proud it dawns the Holden lion.

you even see the VN-VS with chev badges now. I have seen a rodeo ute with a chev badge. (no chevy engine conversion). bugger it!! if i ever own a VL i'm putting a nissan badge on it!!!

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by PlukaDuck

I believe the cl and cm model chargers where 100% australian made.

But they were based on US Chrysler models, the had a lot of Australian content but the reality is they were yank models under the skin. The Chargers were the most unique having a shorter wheelbase.

Originally Posted by PlukaDuck

HERE IT IS.

THE SKELTA.......100% OZZIE OZZIE OZZIE.......OY OY OY.


NOW SHOW US YOUR 100% KIWI CAR

Isn't the engine a supercharged Honda VTEC, or is it an LS1. Hardly Australian.

[melon466]

Originally Posted by Olbucko

How about the Lightburn Zeta, designed by a washing machine and Cement mixer Co. in South Aust, 1963 to 1965. Total sales 363 It had a 324cc 2 stroke motor and no reverse gear, when you wanted to go in reverse you stopped the motor and restarted it backwards.

Slightly off topic, but there was a NOS zeta body on ebay a couple of months back,, had never heard of them before that.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by Ryan

It's definitely lost its meaning. Putting a Chev badge on a Holden used to be a way of letting people know they weren't messing with a 202 or 308.

Even in the late 90s when Holden introduced the LS1 I guess people put them on for that reason too. Now it's just a **** factor especially p platers with V6s. The L98 isn't even a Chev motor. It's one massive misconception. Like how people think LS1s are 350ci.

My VZ has an LS1, but I'll roll over and die before putting a Chev badge on it. Proud it dawns the Holden lion.

Holdens with Chev power big deal 307 was gut less rubbish as was the 327 it's a low compression motor.
HQ 350 gutless rubbish 8.5:1 compression.
The HT-G 350 is ok but, it was in liege the GT at the time but it had noting on any GT-HO.

LS1 346ci and it's not a chev motor.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

The 48/215 wasn't a "Chev"...it was designed by Holden, along with GM head office in the USA, as any completely new model back then would have done.

Come down to it, there's no such thing as a "100% dinky di Aussie car"...dig around your FG Falcon or VE Commodore and you'll find plenty of bits made overseas, but when push comes to shove, they're both the product of an American company.

Valiants would come close, once they stopped using American designs. The VH was fully Australian as the six cylinder hemi engine wasn't used in Yank stuff. The slant six in earlier Valiants was used overseas however.
All Ford sixes and eights until recent years were either identical to or based on Yank engines.

Probably the most fully Australian engines would be the Holden V8's like the 253 and 308. You'd have to add in the good old red six cylinder motor as well.

The 48/215 was more like a Vauxhall then the chev by far.
The aussie holdens are more GM Buick then the chevy.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by big_landau

yeah i think the vh val had the most australian content of the time.this is why the e38 only got the aussie made 3 speed because no aussie manufacturer made a 4 speed.they had very good 4 speeds in the usa but they refused to use them because they wanted the most australian race car to race at bathurst etc.a knoble thing to do but the public didnt gave a rats.

Is not the 4 sp in the valiant just the same box as in the aussie falcon as is the diff and B/W 35 auto.

[JimStone]

Originally Posted by Neale

my 2c

Repco Brabham engine based on Oldsmobile V8





Have to love the World F1 Champions hightech 60's era transporter

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by castellan

The 48/215 was more like a Vauxhall then the chev by far.
The aussie holdens are more GM Buick then the chevy.

It actually wasa regected chev design, from '38...with a enigne based on a buick design...not alot Vauxhall about it...


The Aussie stying proposal for the 48/215 was a lot more squared off, and had rectangular headlamps and horizontal grille....

[PlukaDuck]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

But they were based on US Chrysler models, the had a lot of Australian content but the reality is they were yank models under the skin. The Chargers were the most unique having a shorter wheelbase.




Isn't the engine a supercharged Honda VTEC, or is it an LS1. Hardly Australian.

What under the skin was yank on the 265 charger?
And what engine is in the SKELTA ?

[PlukaDuck]

Originally Posted by castellan

Is not the 4 sp in the valiant just the same box as in the aussie falcon as is the diff and B/W 35 auto.

It sure is ! But cl and cm models had 4 speed.

They thought they had enough grunt in the earlier models with a 3 speed
but soon figured out on race day they couldn't cut it with the fords.

[big_landau]

valiant got the first aussie made borg warner 4 speed in 1972,ford got the same box for the xb gt after the toploader but slightly modified.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by Nikked

It actually wasa regected chev design, from '38...with a enigne based on a buick design...not alot Vauxhall about it...


The Aussie stying proposal for the 48/215 was a lot more squared off, and had rectangular headlamps and horizontal grille....

The engine is that close to the vauxhall that the crank can fit in.
It has no chassis same as vauxhall from german know how, not USA.
Yes it was registered as a chev, the first 3 from USA but it is a GM product as is Vauxhall.
It is an all Aussie car, as it was designed for Australia and was very advanced for it's time.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by Neale

image

my 2c

Why do they always show that rubbish when the 308 powered one was the best by far and a true aussie car.

[buickman]

Originally Posted by JimStone

Repco Brabham engine based on Oldsmobile V8

image



Have to love the World F1 Champions hightech 60's era transporter

image

They are nice classic Pics's. I've not seen them before.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by PlukaDuck

What under the skin was yank on the 265 charger?
And what engine is in the SKELTA ?

The Chrysler's were adapted US designs, just like the early Falcons were. And wasn't the Hemi 6 basically a modified US truck engine? Yes, the aussie supply content of parts was high, but the basic designs of engine and chassis were just modified from US vehicles weren't they?

The engine in the Skelta is a supercharger version of the Honda S2000 Vtec 4 cylinder.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by castellan

Holdens with Chev power big deal 307 was gut less rubbish as was the 327 it's a low compression motor.
HQ 350 gutless rubbish 8.5:1 compression.
The HT-G 350 is ok but, it was in liege the GT at the time but it had noting on any GT-HO.

LS1 346ci and it's not a chev motor.

Yeah, but the whole idea of Chev badges back then was to show it was Chev powered. It has virtually no meaning now as they get thrown on virtually anything. V6s, Rodeos etc.

I guarantee people didn't stick them on 4 cylinder HB Toranas back in the day.

[Professor Farnsworth]

they're used now as it seems a lot of australians aspire to be american.

[IDT]

Why do people keep saying based on this or that? They are cars, four road wheels and a combustion engine so.......................
By those standards, the guys who do the design use clay models. Clay was first used by some dude in Africa therefore all cars are based on African design principles.

What a load of S*#@

[FG50T]

[malazn mafia]

Originally Posted by FG50T

image

only if an Aussie cooked Frankfurter is considered Australian food..

[tezxr8man]

Originally Posted by castellan

Holdens with Chev power big deal 307 was gut less rubbish as was the 327 it's a low compression motor.
HQ 350 gutless rubbish 8.5:1 compression.
The HT-G 350 is ok but, it was in liege the GT at the time but it had noting on any GT-HO.

LS1 346ci and it's not a chev motor.

I was fairly certain that the 327 was a high comp motor that outperformed the 350 as it at the time was the motor used for racing here and in the states in the Camaro?
Correct me if I am wrong

[Professor Farnsworth]

further to FG50T and malazn mafia's posts, for those interested in the early 'australian' commodores, check these links. Especially if you thought Commodore and Senator were names Holden coined (not that our brand is much better in that regard)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opel_Senator

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opel_Commodore

and as far as i know it went as far as the VT/VX shape, then they whacked a new front and rear on the same thing to make the VY, with the VE being an australian design.

Here's the VT also:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Op...vauxhomega.JPG

[Professor Farnsworth]

let's not forget the Ford (XD) Grenada though!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:19...2.8_Ghia_X.jpg

and the model i WISH we got:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fo..._bei_Rhein.jpg

[Kingsley]

Originally Posted by castellan

The engine is that close to the vauxhall that the crank can fit in.
It has no chassis same as vauxhall from german know how, not USA.
Yes it was registered as a chev, the first 3 from USA but it is a GM product as is Vauxhall.
It is an all Aussie car, as it was designed for Australia and was very advanced for it's time.

After reading 'Special - The Untold Story of Australia's Holden' it was pretty conclusive that the 48-215 (Project 320) was the result of a combination of designs including the 1939 Opel 'Kapitan', the rejected American (Project 2000) and design 195-Y-15. There was minimal input from from Holden designers here. On the 24 October 1946 Lawrence wrote to his boss in America expressing his astonishment at not being able to 'see the car they were going to manufacture'. Laurence Hartnett (Holden's head honcho) was ****ed off about being 'kept in the dark'.
All three 48/215's that were built in America were registered here in Victoria as 1946 Chevrolet's.
Australian designers were responible for the FE/FC and the FB/EK, both heavily influenced by the respective 1955 and 1957 Chevrolet's. We lost the bulk of designing future Holdens when the 1965 proposal stood out like a 'sore thumb' at a GM Proposal meeting. The Americans took over design again and we got the EJ/EH Holdens. From there, most Holden designs are either American or European influenced.