Crash. Old car versus...old car...

[castellan]

Originally Posted by MAD

Why did the XY get so sideways?
A rear brake lockup shouldn't cause that much of a trajectory change, maybe a dodgy brake upgrade/repair and incorrect brake bias.

I remember back in 1990 i went in to have all my brakes done front and back and i said to the dude i don't give a cracker as to the price, as i drive this worked 308 flat out understand, what i am saying ! so make sure not to skimp on anything as i am not a grandmar just plodding about.
So to your ability do the best you can with it. like as i am not like your average tightwad who want you to skimp on everything and complain like mad that you could of saved $5 on a cheaper set of pads etc as i could not give a rat's if it was $100 more. as i want the thing to stop like a high performance car should.
And it turned out that he was a absolute moron just like most of the other fools that work at brake servicing. as i have had to strongly argue with people like this, as they even try to talk me out of going for high performance pads as they rant and rave that i will chew out the rotors, and i say i couldn't care less about the rotors i want it to STOP ! money is not an object at all as i couldn't care less i want it to stop. and they just don't get it.

And a XY GT Falcon like in the smash should not lock up the rear because it has drum brakes at all, if one knows how to set the whole thing up with some intelligence. or maybe one caliper were not up to scratch on the front that lead to it getting out of control.
Just remember Moffat ect could drive an old Falcon very fast with out a problem. so methinks it's the driver incompetence error or the brake setup was just a sad a joke due to incompetence. or old mate driving did not know the cars limitations or had not tested it out in an emergency situation before hand.

[TC200six]

Leaking brake cylinders or leaking axle seals can cause rear drums to lock up. I know that from experience.

[GA_0009]

Originally Posted by superyob

Don't know about 'comfortable'. I'd rather cruise around in my ZD than many other modern cars. It is a far more comfortable car to ride in than many modern offerings. I know it does not handle, go around corners or stop and that the power of the almost stock 302 is woefully inadequate compared to modern engines, but I drive it within its limits and I don't feel it's a 'death trap'.

The Key in this post, and probably this thread, is "Drive it within its Limits"
That goes for the car and driver..

[Mr Hardware]

Those who fail to grasp the simple concept that modern cars are magnitudes safer than half a century old ones, and therefore continue to drive around in them, seem to me to be a good example of Darwin's theory of natural selection.

[Trevor 57]

Torquay Sand 5/1982 VH Holden Commodore SL Automatic Sedan "Grumble&Whine"
White 7/1989 N13 Nissan Pulsar Vector GL 5-speed Sedan "SpakAttak

A couple of safe cars there bro!

[LeadFoot81]

Originally Posted by superyob

Don't know about 'comfortable'. I'd rather cruise around in my ZD than many other modern cars. It is a far more comfortable car to ride in than many modern offerings. I know it does not handle, go around corners or stop and that the power of the almost stock 302 is woefully inadequate compared to modern engines, but I drive it within its limits and I don't feel it's a 'death trap'.

I'm sure your old ZD would be more cushy than many modern offerings.

However, can you honestly (and properly) compare your Fairlane to a modern equivalent (eg VE Caprice, BF Fairlane) and tell me the new models aren't more comfortable and easier to live with?

BTW my ZD had a standard 302 with aftermarket twin exhausts and went fairly well. Easily as fast as an early 90's Falcon six, because it was so light!! Great car, but everything about it felt a million years old. You don't appreciate modern ergonomics and design until you own a golden oldie.

[superyob]

Originally Posted by LeadFoot81

I'm sure your old ZD would be more cushy than many modern offerings.

However, can you honestly (and properly) compare your Fairlane to a modern equivalent (eg VE Caprice, BF Fairlane) and tell me the new models aren't more comfortable and easier to live with?

BTW my ZD had a standard 302 with aftermarket twin exhausts and went fairly well. Easily as fast as an early 90's Falcon six, because it was so light!! Great car, but everything about it felt a million years old. You don't appreciate modern ergonomics and design until you own a golden oldie.

Cannot compare with the models you mention but my daughter's boyfriend has a 2010? sidi Commodore and the seats are like sitting on planks. My old 6 cylinder EB wagon sucked in the comfort department and was down on power compared to the 302 in my ZD. Various other modern cars that I have been a passenger in have left me with no particular desire to drive a long distance in them. I have no problem with the fact that many newer cars do so much more than cars 40 years ago, but they don't do anything for me... I guess I am a fossil who is stuck in the Chrome Bumper era...

[The Yeti]

Originally Posted by superyob

Cannot compare with the models you mention but my daughter's boyfriend has a 2010? sidi Commodore and the seats are like sitting on planks. My old 6 cylinder EB wagon sucked in the comfort department and was down on power compared to the 302 in my ZD. Various other modern cars that I have been a passenger in have left me with no particular desire to drive a long distance in them.

I have no problem with the fact that many newer cars do so much more than cars 40 years ago, but they don't do anything for me... I guess I am a fossil who is stuck in the Chrome Bumper era...

but do so much more of what? windows that go up & down with a button? big deal

90% of what modern cars do standard now is availabile as a bolt on if thats what you want any way

I'm hear what your saying I just drove to Denliquin and back in my work hack that people were raving about how good they were in another thread and it was just plain boring and uncompfortable, throw me in a chrome bumper car for that trip and it would have atleast been an enjoyable trip

[Olbucko]

Originally Posted by mik

i dunno about the rear bumper hitting you in the back, it depends on the car i guess,
i had a loaded bedford van slam into my pristine 67 xr 289 while stationery , he hit me square on and hard enough to crease the roof which you could see through the vinyl roof and push me out onto the road, it flattened the rear bumper and damaged the boot, tail lights ,pushed the dog leg very close to the rear doors, but i drove it home with a bruised scone and stiff neck, i`d much rather be in my xr than smallish car with no sheetmetal behind or infront.

If you had been in a modern car it would have been written off and undriveable after the impact, however you neck and head would probably would not have been injured.

[XBROO]

There's no arguement that new cars are safer then old in higher speed crashes. But if it's a stupid driver that dosen't pay attention to the road, then hopefully they are in a new car when they crash. When you drive an old car with the windows down exposed to the climate, it keeps you awake and more alert because you're enjoying driving. And not thinking of other things, just like being on a bike, your minds on the road.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

Those who fail to grasp the simple concept that modern cars are magnitudes safer than half a century old ones, and therefore continue to drive around in them, seem to me to be a good example of Darwin's theory of natural selection.

And a bad driver at the wheel of anything does not matter how safe the car is at all.
Some like to think they are invisible in their new cars. but they are no where as safe as a Bathurst touring cars and i see no airbags in them do you and where is the ABS etc. the poor dudes that race them don't need that stuff, or do they need or really want that horrible disgusting dimwitted intrusion impairing their driving ability.

[gtfpv]

you know your guys are talking utter crap about good drivers right . the xy pulled sideways and into oncoming traffic , waffling on about the driver is nonsense.

[XBROO]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

you know your guys are talking utter crap about good drivers right . the xy pulled sideways and into oncoming traffic , waffling on about the driver is nonsense.

What the? Cars don't drive themselves, so if the driver was paying attention to what was up a head it wouldn't have happen. To many people just look at the car in front, instead of looking ahead to see what happening. It's called reading the traffic and being ready for what's coming up, that's how you stay alive on a bike.

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

you know your guys are talking utter crap about good drivers right . the xy pulled sideways and into oncoming traffic , waffling on about the driver is nonsense.

it happened then , it happened before and it will happen again , waffling on about good drivers is nonsense , thats why cars keep getting safer in the build .

[XBROO]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

it happened then , it happened before and it will happen again , waffling on about good drivers is nonsense , thats why cars keep getting safer in the build .

Mate I agree that making safer cars is a good way to go, because there is always people on the road that don't pay attention. But to say good drivers are nonsense, how can you make a statment like that?

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by XBROO

Mate I agree that making safer cars is a good way to go, because there is always people on the road that don't pay attention. But to say good drivers are nonsense, how can you make a statment like that?

because good drivers dont exist , and no matter how good a driver you are a bad driver will catch you out . thinking that good drivers can avoid everything isnt't true .
we are not as good as we think we are .

and believe me when i say good drivers dont exist . you can be a good driver one day and terrible the next because of many factors .

[gtxb67]

on the face of it, the driver of the xy was not paying enough attention. if he was paying the appropriate amount of attention, then the accident would not have happened
it didn't matter how good the guy in the ek was, if the guy in the xy was better at that point in time, then there would be no thread

it "does" matter how good the drivers are - and when they are not so good, we then need to rely on the back up plan; safer cars

and if the driver of the ek didn't do such a good job, who knows where the ek would have ended up

[flappist]

One of the great anthropic axioms.

I think I am normal.
I think most others are normal.
Therefore most others are the same as me and anyone who is not like me is not normal.

Apply this axiom when reading posts, it can help make many things clear....

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by flappist

One of the great anthropic axioms.

I think I am normal.
I think most others are normal.
Therefore most others are the same as me and anyone who is not like me is not normal.

Apply this axiom when reading posts, it can help make many things clear....

very true .
It's hard to apply this to driving though because a lot of people think they are above normal , unfortunately it depends on the day .

it doesnt stop the fact that engineers learn also and apply knowledge learnt from past mistakes in design and driver ability .
we're living in exciting times .
the drivers of those 2 old cars survived because of engineering of the time , today if the 2 drivers were driving newer cars , it may not of happened at all . and tomorrow , collision avoidence computers will prevent the scenario occuring in the 1st place .
the drivers will be the same .

[XBROO]

Answer for gtfpv

True there are many factors to take into a count. But I suppose being a bike rider you have to be aware of what's going on around you, everytime you ride. So you start looking for situations that could happen. I ride like every vehicle on the road is going to hit me. And I take this practice into the car, I've had people in with me when I have avioded acidients and they asked how did you know that was going to happen? It's called reading traffic and looking at where other motorist are looking when coming up to a intersections. If they haven't made eye contact then I take it they haven't seen me so I approach with caution, already planing for the what if.

[The Yeti]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

Those who fail to grasp the simple concept that modern cars are magnitudes safer than half a century old ones, and therefore continue to drive around in them, seem to me to be a good example of Darwin's theory of natural selection.

probably true, but I would actualy much rather find my fate at Darwins theory than see my self in nothing but modern cars

this isthe type if life I think it would be having to drive nothing but a current model 5* safety car

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDs-gkZw5uo

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by XBROO

Answer for gtfpv

True there are many factors to take into a count. But I suppose being a bike rider you have to be aware of what's going on around you, everytime you ride. So you start looking for situations that could happen. I ride like every vehicle on the road is going to hit me. And I take this practice into the car, I've had people in with me when I have avioded acidients and they asked how did you know that was going to happen? It's called reading traffic and looking at where other motorist are looking when coming up to a intersections. If they have made eye contact then I take it they haven't seen me so I approach with caution, already planing for the what if.

i understand your attitude , its the right one when riding or driving . it will minimise your chances of being in an accident , it wont prevent you from being in one , and your reactions or decisions will not be the same everyday , sure some people will kill themselves from foolishness , others will be killed from someone elses foolishness , driver attitude is important but not reliable or consistant . I hope you dont fall into the catagory that believes it wont happen to you . often that attitude increases the chances/ or negates your attitude to caution and safety .
i found it typical reading this thread , that people would start blaming the drivers .
human nature says IT wont happen to me ,because I am blah blah blah.. and time and time again we are proven wrong .

[XBROO]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

i understand your attitude , its the right one when riding or driving . it will minimise your chances of being in an accident , it wont prevent you from being in one , and your reactions or decisions will not be the same everyday , sure some people will kill themselves from foolishness , others will be killed from someone elses foolishness , driver attitude is important but not reliable or consistant . I hope you dont fall into the catagory that believes it wont happen to you . often that attitude increases the chances/ or negates your attitude to caution and safety .
i found it typical reading this thread , that people would start blaming the drivers .
human nature says IT wont happen to me , and time and time again we are proven wrong .

I never believe it won't happen to me that's why on a 40 degree day, I'm still in full leathers. See too many bike riders riding around in t-shirts and shorts because it's too hot. But I do believe that by driving and riding the way I do, it lessings my chances of become a statistic.

[LTDHO]

I don't have 32 years of driving experience or an ex-advance driving instructor but I do have 13 years in dealing with road trauma and fatalities. I must say pulling onto the left shoulder to make a right hand turn would have to be one of the most dangerous and illegal suggestions I have ever heard.

This accident was caused from lack of concentration. Nothing else. The only the the turning vehicle should have done (which I doubt but can't prove otherwise) is braked and indicated early. Road users fail to take road speed into consideration when showing the vehicle behind what they intend to do.

Sad to see the damage to the XY and EK, thankfully no one was seriously hurt.

[notice]

i was there for that crash and the car in front of the gt over took cut in front then hit the anchors seeing the cars slowing down in front i got a few picks of the gt after on my missus slr the guy was crying

[XBROO]

Originally Posted by notice

i was there for that crash and the car in front of the gt over took cut in front then hit the anchors seeing the cars slowing down in front i got a few picks of the gt after on my missus slr the guy was crying

If this is true that's no good at all. That means both cars were wrecked through no fault of their own. And the person that caused it all car is ok, there's no justice in the world.

[Falconunbelievable]

So thankful that everyone has walked away as this could have been so much worse. If that guy really did overtake and cut in front the guy in the GT had no chance... poor buggers.

Here is a pic of what a Hyundai will do to an XY ute at 100 clicks - tbarred at an intersection. No pics of the Hyundai sorry, it was a write off. The ute too was a write off, bent like a banana. Big dent in the top of the door frame where my husbands head hit it... I will never forget that phone call for as long as I live...

[xe351]

Originally Posted by Falconunbelievable

So thankful that everyone has walked away as this could have been so much worse. If that guy really did overtake and cut in front the guy in the GT had no chance... poor buggers.

Here is a pic of what a Hyundai will do to an XY ute at 100 clicks - tbarred at an intersection. No pics of the Hyundai sorry, it was a write off. The ute too was a write off, bent like a banana. Big dent in the top of the door frame where my husbands head hit it... I will never forget that phone call for as long as I live...

image

image

was everyone ok?

[Bearman]

This is a nightmare scenario going for a cruise in your old classic and having this occur.

Thankfully no-one got hurt (at least I don't think so??) and kudos to the EK driver for keeping such a cool head!! Accidents happen, that's just a fact of life. It doesn't help anyone to analyze the footage to the n'th degree and point fingers, I'm sure all parties involved feel terrible.

Hopefully everyone's insurance will come to the party and everyone gets their cars fixed or replaced and everyone can go cruising again.

Let's end this new car V old car debate, it really is pointless.

[xe351]

i love old cars, but to think they are safer for the occupants is dreaming.

A few years ago we did a tour of the Volvo factory in sweden, it was a real eye opener and well worth the experience. They were saying that the factory would send out their engineers to road crashes involving volvos up to a couple of years old so that they could inspect and look for ways to make the new model safer! It really made me see vovlo in a different light after that.