The dangerous side of mobile speed cameras - rant. - Page 4

troppo · 30-07-2006, 11:40 AM

How can my days be numbered if there isn't a speed limit to exceed? It's only southerners that burst into flames at 111km/h..
Yep that's exactly how I look at speeding fines too, especially since theres also no points sytem here which some are claiming is a significant part of the deterrent side of things. Just another bill.....

Edit: I should mention I've only had 1 speeding fine in the last 5 years.

[Tonko] · 30-07-2006, 02:22 PM

what was it the government said with one argument about speeding? every K over doubles your chances of crashing? so if im doing 112km/h on a freeway i WILL crash and become another stastic? this is one argument i have never understood.

also i have a mate that was booked for 95 in a school zone (rural where the zone is 60 not 40) it was 7 minutes after the time zone finished and he believed he would be ok. the mobile speed camera had the time set differently to the clock in my mates car, he lost his license and job. this is unfair...
also as someone else said, how am i supposed to watch the road conditions, traffic during peak hour etc... and worry about being 3km over, instead of going with the flow of traffic or if its raining, going a tad slower.... drive smart, not paranoid about speed cameras, coppers etc. when one is concentrating on this they are not concentrating on the road, traffic etc.
and if we are making millions in this revenue, how about fixing the damn potholes down my road or sealing a few dirt roads here that see 50+ B-doubles a day...

BENT_8 · 30-07-2006, 03:01 PM

How many speed cameras have caused accidents would be a good topic for discussion too!

Rescently a family friends daughter was travelling along a country road just on night fall when they were hit head on by a old guy towing a car on a trailer.
Fortunately they all survived however some with serious lifelong injuries.
The cause of the accident was a lone ranger country cop who thought it would be sneeky to sit facing the oncoming traffic behind a crest on the wrong side of the road with his lights on.
The elderly gentleman came over the rise and was blinded/stunned to see a car so close facing him and on the wrong side of the road that he lost control of his vehicle.
This all happened the same night as those poor young lives were lost in Mildura, yet the papers all published the Mildura stuff(and fair enough too) but not even a mention of the copper who almost killed 6 adults in the name of saving lives.
I couldn't believe that it didn't even get a mention on the news, but it just goes to show that even a supposed accident preventing device in the wrong hands, and its use not scrutinised by those who use it so freely, can be a road hazard also.

David See · 30-07-2006, 05:01 PM

Tonko351...did your mate fight the ridiculous fine and get his points back?

BENT_8, isn't it funny how rarely the law enforcers - when it comes to road rules - are rarely held accountable for their wrong doings? That cop should have been hauled over the coals for doing that.

However, there has recently been a local HWP officer who was caught trying to impress some young girls after picking them up in his police car. After pulling a few burnouts, speeding unnecessarily and being a general law-breaker himself, decided it was neccessary to go about wiping the recodrings of what he had been doing from the in-car video recorder. He got caught in the process.

This man has been caught doing the things he had booked people for and he faces up to 20 years in jail if convicted. How degrading. Wonder how many drivers he has made feel lousy over the years for doing 6km over the speed limit?

Then again, there WERE young girls to impress, so I guess that means something!

These cops who find ingenious ways to hide, trick and catch us all for breaking rules that are mostly stupid anyway, are just like you and me except they have the power to stop us and belittle us for doing the things that they also do.

Now why do people disrespect HWP officers I wonder?

David See · 30-07-2006, 05:05 PM

Panda, the fines are bad enough - it's the points system that sucks.

Could someone please tell me when the 12 points system was introduced?

I think, due to the amount of traffic hazards and speed-traps around we should get at least 24 points to lose, or as it currently is in NSW, gain.

But what gets me - if each state has a different system, then who argues which is right and which is wrong? If laws differ from state to state, then surely one must be "wrong"??

Also, I think professional drivers should have more points allocated than a granny who uses her car once week.

David See · 30-07-2006, 05:06 PM

GCFordChic:

So what?

If you don't like this thread, don't come here!

Simple.

David See · 30-07-2006, 05:09 PM

VSII, I think the gripe here is that we have more speed cameras popping up all the time and many new and different ways to catch us out.

Trouble is, we still only have 12 points to lose.

The money part is bad enough, but the points system is old-hat and needs to be changed. Especially for professional drivers.

promina · 30-07-2006, 05:16 PM

i think the general speed moto relating to safety is often miss interpreted. i think the main idea behind it is the survival rate of those in an accident beyond a certain speed is greatly less than those traveling the speed limit. Im sure 99 percent of you would disagree though.

BENT_8 · 30-07-2006, 05:21 PM

If a person who drives for a living gets caught and loses all his 12 points he loses his licence.
If a person who drives for a living gets caught and loses 12 points but then speeds the next day and kills someone, who benefits from the extra allocated points?
People who rely on their licence to make a living should be more aware of the road rules and therefore shouldn't need extra points.

promina · 30-07-2006, 05:23 PM

^

amen to that

troppo · 30-07-2006, 06:28 PM

Yeah but what about those of us who don't have points? How are we meant to look at it as anything but revenue raising?
And if someone dies in an accident the next day, does it really matter whether the offending driver had points left or not?

troppo · 30-07-2006, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by promina

i think the general speed moto relating to safety is often miss interpreted. i think the main idea behind it is the survival rate of those in an accident beyond a certain speed is greatly less than those traveling the speed limit. Im sure 99 percent of you would disagree though.

No-ones arguing that speed is not a significant factor in the severity of an accident, should one occur. Which is not the same as saying speed is the reason why accidents occur.

David See · 30-07-2006, 07:35 PM

BENT_8:

I just don't understand why all the obstacles have increased 1000 fold since the points system came in and yet we still only get 12 points to lose.

Professional drivers are on the road far more than average drivers and therefore the risks for them increase accordingly just because they are on the road more. The odds are against them.

Don't know...

I just feel that the points system should improve along with revenue-rasing technology, but that's just n opinion.

red_hotxr6 · 31-07-2006, 08:34 AM

Maybe as one gets older and has a good driving record they should be able to earn themselves an "extra" point, and so on as they get older. :eclipsee_

GCFordChic · 31-07-2006, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David See

GCFordChic:

So what?

If you don't like this thread, don't come here!

Simple.

Ahh i never said i didnt like it, hell i am back here reading it!

There are just no new arguments. Everyone is going round in circles, i am waiting for some more interesting arguments to be put up than the same ones that havbe been said. Repetition is boring and annoying. Repetition is boring and annoying. I could copy and paste some of the things i have already posted in response to the same arguments been stated again.

It was also adding some light-hearted humor to a thread which is full of angry comments.

SIMPLE

GCFordChic · 31-07-2006, 09:03 AM

Although i dont agree that 'professional' drivers should be allowed more points, thats not the point. It would be too hard to regulate and decide who comes under the classification as a 'professional driver'.

Perhaps a certain number of point in addition to those all drivers have but to 'access' those points so to speak they have to prove they were working at the time of the offence. But how many extra points should people be given?

A person who works part time as a pizza delivery driver.
A person who works full time as a taxi driver.
A person who works part time as a taxi driver.
A person who is classified as an 'assistant' to a lawyer who ends up on the road for hours each day during work driving to settlements, to get lunch, to get groceries for the office, to get the mail etc.

Would they all be given the same?

I think its unfair to do it anyway, you choose the job and the added risks associated with it, why should there be different rules for different people. The rule of law, one law for all and noone is above the law. The basic premise of our legal system.

LTDHO · 31-07-2006, 10:33 AM

Professional drives have more experience and should make less faults on the road therefore requiring less points. This includes cab drivers!

Fairmont I6 · 31-07-2006, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the black pig

The real annoyance is the b_llsht of speed cameras was known and recognised years ago.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/caspe...20analysis.pdf

Everyone should read this and it should be stuck up the noses of every police person and up the _rse of every politician who belongs to a party which supports these one-eyed money pumps. Send it to your friends. Stick it under windscreen wipers.

.

wow everyone really should read this before posting anything else

Auslandau · 31-07-2006, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fairmont I6

wow everyone really should read this before posting anything else

Yes totally agree.........Please read the FACTS then post. Very good reading, even if you dont agree, but hard not to as everything is statisticaly based.

Here is is again......
http://members.optusnet.com.au/caspe...20analysis.pdf

| [/url] |

GCFordChic · 31-07-2006, 02:52 PM

I LOVE statistics, they can be bent anyway you want to say whatever it is you want to say.
People wont believe statistics the government brings out, but will believe them when it supports their own opinion. I read that and yes, although it makes interesting reading and has lots of fancy figures it doesnt really change my opinion. If that was the first article out like that, where are the follow-up and supporting articles that agree with the points made? If it isnt the first article to discuss the issue, where are the references to other people that make the same point?
I also found that what they were saying was not what the graph was showing and then that there was no consistency between what happened in the graphs, so how are they able to determine that the introduction of speed cameras were a bad thing? I dunno, up until then i was reading it with an open mind, but then i noticed that and started to get very cynical.

Read the facts, are you kidding, what like it is gospel!?! be wary of facts is what i have been taught. When i have looked into other statistical opinion articles before at uni i have read the sources they quote and the article has ended up being very deceptive. I dont have time to look these ones up, but i am still weary.

GCFordChic · 31-07-2006, 03:18 PM

I did find this to be a more interesting read, i must say, it has swayed my opinion slightly.

The Great Speed Camera Rip Off

This is good too, between the author of the article everyone on here is raving about and another person with a logical opinion too.

Speed Camera Debate

Hope the links work alright.

Now i have to stop procrastinating and get back to my uni work.

:

Jennifer

:

gbright · 31-07-2006, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David See

BENT_8:

I just don't understand why all the obstacles have increased 1000 fold since the points system came in and yet we still only get 12 points to lose.

Professional drivers are on the road far more than average drivers and therefore the risks for them increase accordingly just because they are on the road more. The odds are against them.

Don't know...

I just feel that the points system should improve along with revenue-rasing technology, but that's just n opinion.

What do you think this is mate i'll tell you why there is more hazzards on the road's it because people just continue to break the speed limit these "trap's" are supposed to be a deterrent i cant even begin to comprehend y anyone would be stupid enough to think that just because there are more trap's that we should get more point what would that acheive??? nothing! i'll let you in on a little secret THEY ARE OUT TO CATCH US DOING THE WRONG THING make no mistake of that and there is a difference between that and the immature "there out to get me/us" mentality displayed here from time to time as for more points for professional driver's i drive my car every day for work around 150 to 200 klm's a day and i havnt had a fine in 3 years now its not that i am a granny driver if fact i have more than my share of "crazy driving times" but i still dont get busted. now how can that be i hear you ask? it's quite simple i am AWARE of what i am doing when i am on the road's if i am speeding i am meaning to if im abiding by the speed limit i am meaning to. and david see if you can not stay within 10 klm's above the speed limit to stay with in the tolerence in nsw and if you can not spot the bloody great speed camera's {and the signs in front of them mind you} then you should not be on the road's and mayb you should think about trading in that territory for a whole bunch of yearly transit tickets because quite frankly i have friend's in nsw and i would hate to hear that they had been killed because you or one of your moronic bretheren cannot control the car they are driving

Auslandau · 31-07-2006, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GCFordChic

I LOVE statistics, they can be bent anyway you want to say whatever it is you want to say.
Read the facts, are you kidding, what like it is gospel!?! be wary of facts is what i have been taught.

Now I am scared!!!!!

Did you read back what you wrote? A fact is something that is true.....as a matter of fact. A fact cannot be destorted because it is a fact. How can you be wary of them.....

Yep I love statistics as they are facts and figures based on actual events. The only way they can be destorted or mis interpreted is by saying the opposite of what it is. "its a fact that this glass is 70% full......." Or you could say 'it is 30% empty'. Both are facts, same conclusion.......

| [/url] |

BENT_8 · 31-07-2006, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David See

BENT_8:

I just don't understand why all the obstacles have increased 1000 fold since the points system came in and yet we still only get 12 points to lose.

Professional drivers are on the road far more than average drivers and therefore the risks for them increase accordingly just because they are on the road more. The odds are against them.

Don't know...

I just feel that the points system should improve along with revenue-rasing technology, but that's just n opinion.

Just how many chances/offences do you think you deserve before you fail to observeall road rules and kill someone?

David See · 31-07-2006, 10:08 PM

Not sure, what do you think is fair?

Maybe reduce it to 6 points? Yeah, there's the answer! I am sure there are plenty f people who would support that.

BENT_8 · 31-07-2006, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red_hotxr6

Maybe as one gets older and has a good driving record they should be able to earn themselves an "extra" point, and so on as they get older. :eclipsee_

Thats a great idea!
How would our career drivers feel about getting 1 extra point per year for every year they dont get a fine.
Sounds good, but then again if they are asking for extra points, chances are the fines arrive slightly more often than that.

GCFordChic · 31-07-2006, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by auslandau

Now I am scared!!!!!

Did you read back what you wrote? A fact is something that is true.....as a matter of fact. A fact cannot be destorted because it is a fact. How can you be wary of them.....

Yep I love statistics as they are facts and figures based on actual events. The only way they can be destorted or mis interpreted is by saying the opposite of what it is. "its a fact that this glass is 70% full......." Or you could say 'it is 30% empty'. Both are facts, same conclusion.......

Oh please. Do you think i am careless enough to write things and not read it back to myself. I have taken 2 courses of statistics at university, i am allowed to be weary of statistics that are manipulated to create 'facts' that people like you are willing to accept and take at face value. Fine whatever live your life never questioning 'Facts', unless that is of course it is opposite to what you believe, then you shall cast it aside.

Here is a fact for you: 75% of law students agree that a citizenship test should be taken by people wishing to become citizens of Australia. The fact that i only talked about it with a group of friends the other day doesnt matter. they were all law students, they represent a proportion (be it very small) of law students so i can represent that statistic as a "Fact".

If you wish to close your eyes to the manipulation that occurs in order to present 'facts' be that your business, but dont criticise me for questioning what i am told in order to discover the extent of its truthfullness and application. Ignorance is bliss...

David See · 31-07-2006, 10:32 PM

gbright, you have missed the point completely!

And needless to say, I, along with my associates, are far from being morons.

My original gripe (albeit mixed in with other ranting stuff) was that the hiding of MOBILE speed cameras can be quite dangerous SOMETIMES as the shock value of seeing that little blue sign hidden in the long grass (and I think the dissent that goes with it) can make people panic and hit the brakes, with the potential of causing an accident. Even when they ARE NOT speeding. It's human nature.

Sure. Fixed speed cameras FORCE people to slow down in school zones. Good idea I think. Except ALL of the zone is not covered. Whoops. Better get another priece of technology for that opportunity!

But kids STILL get hit, maimed and even killed.

My car is my office. I am in it everyday regularly driving 400km in that time. I am a safe driver and I abide by the rules even if I don't agree with them. Since 1981, I have been booked for speeding once. In a school zone. Doing 46km/h. With 1 minute to go until the school zone enforcement was over for the morning. Those are the things that p*** me off, but not as much as the "snakes in the grass".

I see first hand what irresponsible driving does to people. For nearly twenty years now I have seen and experienced people with their heads and faces torn apart or off, people burnt to a crisp so there was nothing left but their bones and glasses frames, and have witnessed the result of stupid P plate drivers who have jammed their girlfriends and mates into the side of an oncoming truck.

I am all for the opportunity to reduce the need to inform families of loved ones just killed or injured with their lives ruined.

I also appreciate the fact that we have warning signs for upcoming speed cameras and do agree that I cannot support those who are silly enough to get caught by one.

And in all that time spent on the road, clocking up millions of kilmometres for my job, there is no one on this planet that can convince me that, hiding a police car so no one sees it until it is too late is a safety measure. Hell, the deterrent doesn't even come in the mail for a couple of weeks. Imagine just how much more speeding could be done before then???

PLUS (and it is a big PLUS): There is nothing worse than a police officer degrading you after they have just pulled you over for breaking the law. It is embarrassing and sticks with you for a long time. Especially if it happens in front of a car full of friends. Now THAT, my friend, is a MUCH better deterrent! No one likes being embarrassed, belittled - especially when you cannot say anything in response. They just don't care.

I know there are differences of opinion. I respect everyone's views. All I see is that speed cameras have made the revenue raising job much, much easier. And imagine the joy on the faces of the revenue raisers when they realised Australia could get them! YIPPEEEEE! This WILL be easy!

Please, someone PROVE to me that speed cameras (perhaps I mean more the mobile ones) work in the best interest of the public and I will be happy.

Until I see the next bit of carnage.

T_Terror · 31-07-2006, 10:39 PM

Are some of you for real?

If there is MORE chance for people to get demerit points and most offences carry HIGHER demerit point losses then wouldnt it be proportional to increase the number of demerit points allowed or at least reset them at 1 year instead of 3?

How can anyone here say it is a good thing that drivers can loose their licences more easily now?

David See · 31-07-2006, 10:46 PM

T_Terror:

EXACTLY!

At least someone else here has a brain!

We have had this points system for YEARS but the odds for getting caught and losing our licences are increasing tenfold every year.

3 years is a bloody long time waiting for points to be reset.

And who chose 3 years and why? Who pulled that out of the hat??