The dangerous side of mobile speed cameras - rant. - Page 6

Casper · 02-08-2006, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gbright

First if people wernt speeding then there would be no need to slam the brakes on it's not instinct if you know your in the clear so either what we have here is a bunch of driver's lacking in cofidence in their judgment in speed to maintain the speed limit scince the last time they looked at their speedo or we have liars who are saying they dont speed and their just arguing the merits of the case but then admit they "slam the brakes on" so witch is it (casper this is not aimed directly at you your post just contained the point i wanted to illistrate)
second daivd your last post a couple of pages ago the big one i liked the way you put your argument and i must say that it has won some respect back from me but stop arguing the extra demerit points thing it is idiotic

After people cop the first $125 fine for being a whopping 3kph over the limit on a slight incline.. in a 50kph zone.. with someone tailgating them... in the evening on the way home from work... they get a little gunshy and start going past these speed traps WELL UNDER the limit (including me). The problem is the 3kph limit attatched to insanely high fines and hidden camera's is such a droconian measure that people are now concentrating more on camera's and less on kids and other road hazards. Overall the cameras have has zero effect on road deaths and a negative effect on road users. In fact they cameras only positive point is their increadable ability to collect revenue for the government.

Bud Bud · 02-08-2006, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Casper

After people cop the first $125 fine for being a whopping 3kph over the limit on a slight incline.. in a 50kph zone.. with someone tailgating them... in the evening on the way home from work... they get a little gunshy and start going past these speed traps WELL UNDER the limit (including me). The problem is the 3kph limit attatched to insanely high fines and hidden camera's is such a droconian measure that people are now concentrating more on camera's and less on kids and other road hazards. Overall the cameras have has zero effect on road deaths and a negative effect on road users. In fact they cameras only positive point is their increadable ability to collect revenue for the government.

This has been my problem from day one. I am also someone who drives under the speed limit 90% of the time. I have not had a fine in over 5 years.

All we have successfully done is to breed a nation of speedo watches. No wonder the guy still hits the lady pedestrian even though he has "wiped of five" lucky she only has a bruised leg??? If he had his eyes outside where they belong then he might of not of hit he in the first place.

You would think that the road toll would have continued to decline following the same path of the 80's and 90's instead of stagnating during the increase use of speed cameras. After all hasn’t the revenue was gone up incredibly during this time?

I also know what it is like in Vic. A couple of years ago I received a letter from the Vic Police and along with the fine, they claimed I was travelling at 85 in an 80 zone after I was returning to Melb from Sorrento along the Monash freeway. They said that I was not to do anything yet as the timed cameras were under investigation. A couple of months later as most of you know they pulled the offence, as they could not guaranty the accuracy of their equipment. They also told me not to do it again.???

The problem I had with this situation is that I regularly use my cruise control as I did this day, and as to not encroach onto traffic ahead, I usually set it to 1 or 2 ks under the speed limit (Sorry to you people behind me). This leaves my eyes to remain outside where they belong. I have also never had an accident in 25 years either. I also did not see anything dangerous or scary on that trip.

As I live in Adelaide I honestly don’t know if I would have challenged this or not, but one thing is for sure, this does count against you when you are being quoted up for insurance.

As I have said before intentional speeding is just plain wrong, but using incremental measuments to catch people who usually are at most concentrating on driving in and around the speed limit is worse.

gbright · 02-08-2006, 02:12 PM

Casper i dont know if you have read the entire thread but bit was cleared up bout 3 pages ago that we are talking bout nsw here not vic so my point is perfectly valid and yes i am serious if you cant spot the speed camera and you are speeding then you desevre to get stung and yeah i slow down for speed camera's aswell just to be sure but its controlled not drastic this is the point im makeing and i really think that everyone on this thread need's to start taking responsibility for their action's on the road and stop trying to blame the govnment for their fines and whatnot grow some ball's and cop it on the chin cause the bottom line is that YOU WERE DOING THE WRONG THING

Casper · 02-08-2006, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gbright

Casper i dont know if you have read the entire thread but bit was cleared up bout 3 pages ago that we are talking bout nsw here not vic so my point is perfectly valid and yes i am serious if you cant spot the speed camera and you are speeding then you desevre to get stung and yeah i slow down for speed camera's aswell just to be sure but its controlled not drastic this is the point im makeing and i really think that everyone on this thread need's to start taking responsibility for their action's on the road and stop trying to blame the govnment for their fines and whatnot grow some ball's and cop it on the chin cause the bottom line is that YOU WERE DOING THE WRONG THING

sorry, didnt realise this had moved to NSW based cameras. In that case I was driving from Syd to Gosford just a few weeks ago and if you miss the signs for the speed camera's you are blind

: Not to mention a far more acceptable and realistic tolerance. Very different to Vic.

VSSII · 02-08-2006, 03:01 PM

I am no fan of cameras, even in well sign posted NSW but you're drawing a very long bow if you think they are a leading cause of accidents. What about other police cars parked by the roadside doing other jobs? Should they not be allowed to park there to compensate for these poor drivers? Perhaps they could carry car covers with them so as to prevent this? :yeees: But then this could be construed as "hiding" and of course the "taxpayers" would have to pay for these covers. Blah blah etc. Lol!

Bobman · 02-08-2006, 10:57 PM

I have witnessed a few nose to tail accidents where a speed camera was situated.

They may not be a leading cause of accidents but they do NOTHING to prevent accidents either, a better police presence would.

BENT_8 · 03-08-2006, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Casper

Seen it happen.

Driver goes past speed camera car and, at the last second, spots it. Slams on brakes which had the guy behind run straight up his ****. This then lead to the first car mounting the footpath and parking on a front lawn.

Too bad if someone was wheeling a pram on the footpath!

Wouldn't you say that the real crime there is that thew following car was not far enough behind to stop from hitting the car in front aka "Tailgating"
If a dog ran infront of tha first car and he slammed on his brakes and was hit from behind it would be the following cars fault for not allowing the guy in front room.
How can you say that the speed camera caused the accident?

David See · 03-08-2006, 12:43 AM

Oh, man, is there a way we can lock these threads so they stop going on and on and on and on and on and.......

schmidty · 03-08-2006, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David See

Oh, man, is there a way we can lock these threads so they stop going on and on and on and on and on and.......

HA!!!!!!!!! U started it!

Drove geelong to sydney and back yesterday and all of the vic cameras were well hiden, and pretty frequent on long wide straight runs, tucked behind bridges, behind signs, over the crests of hills. NSW ones lookes like this!

3 signs before every camera, 3 signs the size of a small car! And yet people still get booked?? HOW COULD YOU MISS THAT!!!!!!! Wish they had that approach in vic. All of the cameras were in dangerous areas, so they slowed the traffic down through the danger area, and made people more alert, then when through the dangerous area the traffic speeds up. Much better approach than our victorian cash cams.

VSSII · 03-08-2006, 11:30 AM

Whether they are in dangerous spots will be a hot topic. As you may have noticed there are quite a few self professed experts on here! Regardless of their location the bottom line is they are very well signposted. And taking that into account, how can you argue they are only interested in chasing money? The most common ticket handed out by these is a 15kmh and under. 4 years ago the RTA REDUCED this fine from $150 to $75 but the points were upped to 3 from 2. That essentially halved their income.

Not my opinion, just the facts jack.

David See · 03-08-2006, 11:34 AM

Sure, understand.

Don't worry, I am thankful NSW has theirs signposted!

I am not a speeder, but I also know how easy it is to get pinged for doing **just** over the limit with these things!

DS

schmidty · 03-08-2006, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VSSII

Whether they are in dangerous spots will be a hot topic. As you may have noticed there are quite a few self professed experts on here! Regardless of their location the bottom line is they are very well signposted. And taking that into account, how can you argue they are only interested in chasing money? The most common ticket handed out by these is a 15kmh and under. 4 years ago the RTA REDUCED this fine from $150 to $75 but the points were upped to 3 from 2. That essentially halved their income.

Not my opinion, just the facts jack.

I live in victoria were the fines are large, and the camera all hidden on large flat straight stretches of newly built, very well made of freeways. Quite different to where i noticed them in nsw

In vic less than 10kmh over the limit sees a $174 fine and 1 point in your letterbox. $10 - 25hmh over is $271.

Facts, and my name's not jack! ha

David See · 03-08-2006, 11:46 AM

I am confused as to why each state has different rules for the cameras.

I wonder why NSW displays signs where the other states refuse to? You would think if one state could get away with not advertising the cameras, then ALL states could do so.

Must be a valid reason. (but I am not complaining).

Just out of curiosity, do the GPS units tell you where these hidden speed cameras are in the other states - or does that feature not work in those states as the cameras are infact hidden?

schmidty · 03-08-2006, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David See

I am confused as to why each state has different rules for the cameras.

I wonder why NSW displays signs where the other states refuse to? You would think if one state could get away with not advertising the cameras, then ALL states could do so.

Must be a valid reason. (but I am not complaining).

Just out of curiosity, do the GPS units tell you where these hidden speed cameras are in the other states - or does that feature not work in those states as the cameras are infact hidden?

The gps units tell you in all states. Not worth a pinch of $h!t in my opinion any more. I drove to sydney and back on tuesday, updated it monday night off the uniden website. I was on the hume just out a bit from kalkallo it missed 2 sets of cameras within a couple of ks of each other. as it 4:30am and pitch black i didnt see thm until i was on them. Picked up 10 or more from my place to there, and then all of the others but just missed those 2, which for what the fines are worth off those 2 it's been a waste of time owning the stupid thing.

And before anyone says, 'yeah but if u weren't speeding,' try driving a turbo diesel 100 series cruiser 1800ks straight without using the cruise and tell me u can do it without ever breaking the speed limit. Couldnt use the cruise as i was towing a fair load, and if u use the cruise the thing is always kicking back to 4th gear and revving like like crazy on steep hills with the cruise. You can tackle the same hills pulling over 2t without even unlocking the torque convertor if u use your foot, and still not lose speed.

David See · 03-08-2006, 12:04 PM

Hmmmm...that's not good.

I installed one of the Road Angel EVO's two weeks ago and it has picked up all cameras from Gosford to Forster and back. It is a wonderful little device that only tells you that you are entering a school zone when the zone limits are in force at certain times. And that is great because it only warns you when you NEED to be aware.

The only issue? It warned me too late in two school zones in Gosford. It didn't warn me until I was almost though them. Fortunately I was well aware of them, but for me that is enough to make me no trust the unit 100%.

Still worth it, though IMO - as any help is better than none.

David See · 03-08-2006, 12:05 PM

Still wondering why the other states don't warn when NSW does. Looks like I live in the best state for working from your car!

Anyone got an answer?

merlin · 03-08-2006, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schmidty

3 signs before every camera, 3 signs the size of a small car! And yet people still get booked?? HOW COULD YOU MISS THAT!!!!!!!

You are talking about FIXED camera's here (isn't the thread about mobile cameras?) - mobile camera's or HWY Patrol car hiding on the side of the road are not marked at all. Go down the M4 on a Saturday night, 2am coming home and I guarantee you there is always a highway patrol car parked on the median strip taking photos completley hidden in the dark - with no barriers protecting it - how the hell is this safe?

Also regarding the fixed sign posted camera's and being blind - I would have agreed with you 6 months ago, but my new job has me driving past 8 of these signed camera's every day to and from work and when you are bleary eyed 6am, winter, know the route, mind wandering, it is quite possible to forget and go past a few kms over the limit (touch wood I havn't yet ,but can now understand why some would get booked).

My position is still keep the camera's but raise the tolerance level and get more Hwy patrol PATROLLING, not parking.

schmidty · 03-08-2006, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David See

Hmmmm...that's not good.

I installed one of the Road Angel EVO's two weeks ago and it has picked up all cameras from Gosford to Forster and back. It is a wonderful little device that only tells you that you are entering a school zone when the zone limits are in force at certain times.

The only issue? It warned me too late in two school zones in Gosford. It didn't warn me until I was almost though them. Fortunately I was well aware of them, but for me that is enough to make me no trust the unit 100%.

Still worsth it, though - any help is better than none.

Depends, the only reason u rely on this is so you can speed and slow down for the cameras. Realistically, if u never speed, you wont need to know where they are and will be able to spend your time worrying about other things out in the big wide world. I bought mine knowing full well that i speed often, not by much but it is very hard not to exceed the limit in the cars of today, on the roads we drive on. There's no point living in denial. I know where the cameras are on the roads i drive frequently, so i always double check my speed when in those areas. I more bought it for when in melbourne and suburbs there are a lot of cameras at intersections fixed speed and red light.

By having this audible warning device i drive with my eyes on the road and in my mirrors, not on my speedo every 2 seconds. That way i am constantly aware of whats going on around me, and the conditions and i adjust my driving accordingly.

David See · 03-08-2006, 12:18 PM

I still reckon the cops (and the revenue raisers) must have been laughing their heads off when they learned they could get technology so they could just sit there, reading a magazine, having a smoke, whatever and just let the camera click, click, away...easy money! Easy commission!

Imagine how many "mobile radar" tickets a "non-moving" speed camera gets! No wonder the patrolling cars are on the decline!

schmidty · 03-08-2006, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merlin

You are talking about FIXED camera's here (isn't the thread about mobile cameras?) - mobile camera's or HWY Patrol car hiding on the side of the road are not marked at all. Go down the M4 on a Saturday night, 2am coming home and I guarantee you there is always a highway patrol car parked on the median strip taking photos completley hidden in the dark - with no barriers protecting it - how the hell is this safe?

Also regarding the fixed sign posted camera's and being blind - I would have agreed with you 6 months ago, but my new job has me driving past 8 of these signed camera's every day to and from work and when you are bleary eyed 6am, winter, know the route, mind wandering, it is quite possible to forget and go past a few kms over the limit (touch wood I havn't yet ,but can now understand why some would get booked).

My position is still keep the camera's but raise the tolerance level and get more Hwy patrol PATROLLING, not parking.

We also do not have highway patrol cars taking pics on the side of the road in the early hours. This is done by private contractors in ordinary every day looking cars. They have gotten tougher on the laws for disguising them. There used to be a rav 4 down the coast a bit on warm days where the guy would have a beach towell hanging out the window, or the jack out or back door open. Not supposed to anymore but it still happens. There was 1 in waurn ponds the other night at peak out with the parkers and left blinker on so it looked like someone pulled over on the phone! dodgy.

SB076 · 03-08-2006, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schmidty

I live in victoria were the fines are large, and the camera all hidden on large flat straight stretches of newly built, very well made of freeways. Quite different to where i noticed them in nsw

In vic less than 10kmh over the limit sees a $174 fine and 1 point in your letterbox. $10 - 25hmh over is $271.

Facts, and my name's not jack! ha

agreed, its different in all states. We have no real tolernace, our cameras are hidden, our speed limits constantly change - Our cameras in vic are purely for revenue reising (other states this may be different - but thats the case down here)

In other states you have a tolerance, so that if you accidently go over the speed limit by 4kmh you wont get pinged. Here we do. I think drivers are fair better off looking ahead and identifing hazards and being alert rather than constantly watching what speed they are doing.

David See · 03-08-2006, 12:22 PM

Nope. Nope. Nope.

I didn't buy the EVO so I could speed.

I bought is so I could be aware of the surrounds so I do the right thing. SInce 1981 I have had 1 ticket in unusual circumstances. My wife even laughed when I bought the EVO as she didn't know why I needed it as I "drive like an old woman".

Like you, it makes me aware of what is going on around me and so because of that I become a better, more responsible driver.

If you know what the rules are at a certain point, you can act accordingly and drive within the law, regardless of whether you agree with the laws or not.

schmidty · 03-08-2006, 12:24 PM

i would love to know some stats on mobile radar fines since the introduction of speed cameras. Never see police on the roads where the cameras are anymore. I know of a guy who duct tapes him number plates and races from melbourne to geelong at speeds in excess of 200kph. Gets to geelong, pulls the tape off, and continues on his way. Sounds extreme but you'd be suprised how much of this stuff goes on, even if its just racing between cameras because people know how much of a rarity it is to see police on some of the fixed speed camera roads.

David See · 03-08-2006, 12:25 PM

gee, we are up to 7 pages. Must have hit a nerve.

David See · 03-08-2006, 12:26 PM

I would hate to see what happened to the "duct tape" guy if he got caught.

schmidty · 03-08-2006, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David See

I would hate to see what happened to the "duct tape" guy if he got caught.

More like, i'd hate to see whats left of the family of 5 that accidently pulls out in front of duct tape guy! If people saw the odd patrol car on the road there's no way they'd risk it with the fines how they are.

nang3 · 03-08-2006, 02:09 PM

Is it just me or could we avoid the entire anti speed camera, kodak cops = cash cows, unfair speeding fines debates etc etc IF the government would re-set all speed limits to a value aimed at the average competent road user i.e. a sensible limit, instead of the current practice of setting it for the lowest common denominator/block of wood level of driving skill..

I agree with 40kph zones around schools because you never know when the little tykes will run out in front of you..
I mean 100kph on a flat, 3 or four lane freeway and 70 or 80kph on an extra wide double lane straight'ish main road that is not flanked by houses or schools ?? this is just bollocks..

I find sometimes when there is no speed sign or i dont know what the limit is, i will drive to suit the weather conditions, the road surface and traffic density.. which 10 times out of 10 will end being about 20kph above the official "block of wood level" designated speed limit.. It is a fact that the average competent driver gets bored and frustrated at the current limits and I am not advocating excessive speed limits that would cause undue crashes etc.. but just a mild increase...

I know your thinking "but what about these incompetents who couldnt survive with raised limits and would cause crashes" ??? well i'd love to say let Natural Selection take care of them but in reality, improved driver training and tougher driver tests would improve their driving to a point for the new limits, or stop them from getting behind a wheel in the 1st place!!

its amazing how the german road toll is significantly less than australias, yet they drive routinely in excess of 200kph.. in theory, if all of a sudden the limits were all dropped to 100kph over there, would they all die instantly as a result of speeding?? speeding kills after all...

David See · 03-08-2006, 02:36 PM

We have a road here in a small rural section of the Central Coast. It is about 2km long and goes through land that has been used for dairy cattle since day one. It is a safe, well sealed road.

Guess what the speed is? Yep, 50km/h. Why? This IS NOT a residential area, although it LEADS to a residential area. It used to be 80km/h and NEVER saw an accident.

I hadn't seen a hwp car there for years until they changed it to 50km/h. THE DAY they changed it. Funny that!

I will have to post a pic of where the cops hide on this road to catch people speeding. It is in a small gully at the end of the straight where they can back their car down into and all that is exposed is the radar and they can watch through the trees. Their car essentially sits facing oncoming traffic with the roof line (ie: radar) just above the ground level of the road you are driving on. There is NO WAY you can see them unless you know where they are.

It's amazing how creative these guys are.

:

David See · 03-08-2006, 02:42 PM

Interesting and timely link:

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/Ar...rticleID=18898

nang3 · 04-08-2006, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David See

We have a road here in a small rural section of the Central Coast. It is about 2km long and goes through land that has been used for dairy cattle since day one. It is a safe, well sealed road.

Guess what the speed is? Yep, 50km/h. Why? This IS NOT a residential area, although it LEADS to a residential area. It used to be 80km/h and NEVER saw an accident.

I hadn't seen a hwp car there for years until they changed it to 50km/h. THE DAY they changed it. Funny that!

I will have to post a pic of where the cops hide on this road to catch people speeding. It is in a small gully at the end of the straight where they can back their car down into and all that is exposed is the radar and they can watch through the trees. Their car essentially sits facing oncoming traffic with the roof line (ie: radar) just above the ground level of the road you are driving on. There is NO WAY you can see them unless you know where they are.

It's amazing how creative these guys are.

:

thats fu*ckin pathetic hey.. at least he would have met his quota for the day