air conditioner gas to go up 220% june 30th ?

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by XR_Strider_GuY

OK just to feed my curiosity. Called a main stream Ford dealer here in Melbourne. For an air conditioning gas R134a recovery and recharge for a BA MKII Falcon assuming the system has nothing wrong is $240.00.

Service guy said its the gas that has gone up but labor stays the same.

Wonder what they charged prior to the increase?? I guess, being a delaer you pay a little extra.

In sydney, there were hundreds of signs scattered around, mostly in servo workshops that would do a regass for between $80 and $100... Wonder what they charge now???

[ratter]

Originally Posted by bingoTE50

If the source of the leak is the shaft seal it will not matter what refrigerant you use. The only way to fix it is replace the seal and unfortunately you would be very hard pressed to find someone who will do it let alone someone stocking the seal.
In the eighties it was common place,in fact I used to stock them when I worked at Lovelocks/Heatcraft.

Throw away society now..

no not leaking, failures of the pumping mechanisms internally.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by ratter

and many late model automotive compressors have a failure a short time after using it

Well I hear the opposite, given one of my TAFE teachers swears by it, as its what he uses.

To use Hychil, R134a has to be taken out, new oil and hychil gas put in.

BTW, its not affected by carbon tax, putting a cylinder of Hychil about $1000 less than R134a now.

[39ClevoUte]

Here's some info.
http://www.refrigerantsaustralia.org...=article&id=63

[Ivan]

I'm an A/c tech and we have been advised by a major compressor supplier and reconditioner that they will not warranty any compressor that is used with HyChill.
We are looking at a price hike of around $30 a litre for 134a which puts our A/C service at about $190 plus any parts.


Ian

[ratter]

Trade school teachers do not always have their fingers on the pulse to what is going on in the real world, We also have been advised that a major air con supplier will not warrant any compressor that has not used the correct gas as designated by the manufacturer because of the the recent failure rates when other gases have been used.

[au2000]

from todays paper, GST is charged on top of the carbon tax as well
herald sun :

In another case, the cost of repairing a household air-conditioner was inflated by several hundred dollars, because the price of refrigerant gas has risen 90 per cent.

The GST was then added to the overall bill, increasing it by about $40.

An apologetic repair man told his customers he was forced to increase his price by several hundred dollars "due to the carbon tax".

Tax experts confirmed the GST would add to household and business costs as the carbon tax was rolled out across the economy.

"Consumers will be paying tax on a tax, which is 10 per cent GST on top of the carbon price that some businesses will be passing on," said Yasser El-Ansary, of the Institute of Chartered Accountants.

[.FoMoCo.]

For sure there's going to be some pain on this one early on, but in the medium to long term, so called "green" energies and innovations will be more competitive, if not lower priced than current technologies.

Hopefully the transition won't take too long, and low cost alternatives will force highly "taxed" old polluting technologies to phase out naturally.

[kyro_02]

really don't see why we have a carbon scheme...wait, its just another tax.. labor just needs an excuse to get more money in the pocket

the end of life of the earth - im sure all this carbon tax will be a waste when the sun explodes first lol! as apposed to our own doing

[cs123]

Originally Posted by au2000

from todays paper, GST is charged on top of the carbon tax as well
herald sun :

In another case, the cost of repairing a household air-conditioner was inflated by several hundred dollars, because the price of refrigerant gas has risen 90 per cent.

The GST was then added to the overall bill, increasing it by about $40.

An apologetic repair man told his customers he was forced to increase his price by several hundred dollars "due to the carbon tax".

Tax experts confirmed the GST would add to household and business costs as the carbon tax was rolled out across the economy.

"Consumers will be paying tax on a tax, which is 10 per cent GST on top of the carbon price that some businesses will be passing on," said Yasser El-Ansary, of the Institute of Chartered Accountants.

I think I saw a correction to that. There is no GST on the Carbon tax.

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

Surely closing down THE states largest single electricity user (pollutor) would be a positive thing for the enviornment?

You are forgetting, the NON-tax is also a NON-carbon reduction scheme.
What is it? -0.0039deg by 2050?

[MAD]

Small update.
http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2012/s3553759.htm

[BHDOGS]

Haha dodgy

[graham7773]

I just got a reasonable quote of $250 to do a back to back install of a reverse cycle air con in my house. Then the installer said that if it needed refrigerant, the cost would rise by $300. WHAT???
I got this off a tech site re R22 which is what my system uses.

R22 is a single hydrochlorofluorocarbon (HCFC) compound. It has low chlorine content and ozone depletion potential and only a modest global warming potential. So why is it being put out of production? By the way, my car uses R22 as well.

[jallen89]

seems the price of everything is rising these days

[SPArKy_Dave]

Originally Posted by ratter

no not leaking, failures of the pumping mechanisms internally.

Could that be, that they had existing damage, due to being run with a low charge of 134a, and vapourised/contaminated oil from subsequent overheating, etc

Or were side by side durability tests done using new compressors, one with an R134a charge, and another with Minus30?

[Jim Goose]

Ah of course many people on here seemingly really didnt care to ask questions... but just prefered to blame the government....
and believed that an increase of over 200% was legitimate...


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-07-2...claims/4154206

Refrigeration company admits to false carbon claims
by online business reporter Michael Janda

Updated July 26, 2012 10:13:39
Drinks sit in a bottle shop fridge Photo: Refrigeration contractor Equipserve Solutions found itself in hot water with the ACCC. (Giulio Saggin: ABC News)
Related Story: Brumby's boss quits over carbon tax letter
Related Story: Brumby's apologises for carbon tax memo
Map: SA

The consumer watchdog says a South Australian refrigeration company has admitted to making false carbon tax price claims.

The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission has accepted a legally-enforceable undertaking from Equipserve Solutions that it will not make further false statements linking price rises to the carbon tax.

Equipserve sent an email to customers which attributed the entire increase of a refrigerant gas price to the carbon tax, when this was not the case.

The refrigeration contractor has agreed to not make similar misleading claims in the future and to send out a corrective notice to its customers advising them of the false claims.

Equipserve has also agreed to train its staff on their legal obligations.

The ACCC's chairman Rod Sims says Equipserve avoided potential fines because of its full cooperation with the regulator once concerns about the statements were raised.
Audio: ACCC wins case against company blaming carbon price for price hike (AM)

"Businesses must carefully consider the basis for any pricing claims to ensure such claims are truthful and have a reasonable basis," he explained.

"If a business’s suppliers have not attributed a price rise to the carbon price, then the business cannot assume that the carbon price is the cause of the price rise."

Mr Sims says consumers may be less likely to question price hikes if they are blamed on the carbon tax.

"The problem is that then people are less likely to push back on the price increase and probe it and say 'well why is it so high, what else is going on here?' as they normally would," he said.

"So this fits into exactly the sort of behaviour we're tyring to keep an eye on to make sure that people do push back against price increases."

So far the ACCC has dealt with misleading carbon tax pricing claims through undertakings by the offending companies to correct their statements, as in the Brumby's Bakery case.

However, penalties of up to $1.1 million per contravention are available in more serious cases or where companies do not cooperate with the regulator.

The ACCC's website provides information for companies about their compliance requirements.

[ratter]

Originally Posted by SPArKy_Dave

Could that be, that they had existing damage, due to being run with a low charge of 134a, and vapourised/contaminated oil from subsequent overheating, etc

Or were side by side durability tests done using new compressors, one with an R134a charge, and another with Minus30?

apparantly done as part of normal services.

ask Cool Drive re using incorrect gases in systems, I'm sure they can answer all your questions

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by SPArKy_Dave

Could that be, that they had existing damage, due to being run with a low charge of 134a, and vapourised/contaminated oil from subsequent overheating, etc

Or were side by side durability tests done using new compressors, one with an R134a charge, and another with Minus30?

Apparently the compressors die due to lack of lubricant flow, this happens at high speed. All compressors that have failed have shown metal wear, due to lubricant failure. Common denominator has been high speed driving/high revs.

Some alternative refrigerant manufacturers recommend adding a compatible lubricant. I question the sense of this; mixing two types of lubricants, plus the added risk of minute particles of previous refrigerant.

I suppose the owner could go through the expense of a strip down and total flush of the system so as to start the new refrigerant in an 'as new' system.

However, I've heard that the compressor manufacturers are still not happy with this because the lubricant has not gone through rigorous testing and approval procedures, which the OEM have done as part of the quality control and reliability/long life testing.

[irish2]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Ah of course many people on here seemingly really didnt care to ask questions... but just prefered to blame the government....
and believed that an increase of over 200% was legitimate...


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-07-2...claims/4154206

Some prices have legitimately increased by 200%, whilst others were gouging on less harmful refrigerants as well. I don't see your point. The government has added cost without saving the environment, all in the name of the mighty dollar.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by jallen89

seems the price of everything is rising these days

Certainly is, I'm interested in the Hychil stuff though, a lot of places are going to switch to it or do the dodgy, or they'll lose customers in droves, or it just wont get done anymore.

[atec77]

Originally Posted by kyro_02

really don't see why we have a carbon scheme...wait, its just another tax.. labor just needs an excuse to get more money in the pocket

the end of life of the earth - im sure all this carbon tax will be a waste when the sun explodes first lol! as apposed to our own doing

Because of gst being so well fixed and labor in deep s^&te they made a carbon tax which does by default generate lots of cash and no benifit to the envirionment , thus getting more gst by stealth . Personally I can't wait for labor to be gone into the disenfranchised darkness for another 20 years

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by irish2

Some prices have legitimately increased by 200%, whilst others were gouging on less harmful refrigerants as well. I don't see your point. The government has added cost without saving the environment, all in the name of the mighty dollar.

Seriously... people on here still dont know how it works... nor seemingly DONT CARE how it works.. or want to know how it works... or which of the 250 or so compnaies ACTUALLY pay a carbon price.... as I stated a while ago no point in trying to have a discussion about an issue when people dont want to inform themselves.

[roberts]

oh no, now what do we smoke?

[roberts]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Seriously... people on here still dont know how it works... nor seemingly DONT CARE how it works.. or want to know how it works... or which of the 250 or so compnaies ACTUALLY pay a carbon price.... as I stated a while ago no point in trying to have a discussion about an issue when people dont want to inform themselves.

you know I was just relabling my swear jar a fart jar when i read your post you sir have saved me a world of trouble on the brotherptouch

[irish2]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Seriously... people on here still dont know how it works... nor seemingly DONT CARE how it works.. or want to know how it works... or which of the 250 or so compnaies ACTUALLY pay a carbon price.... as I stated a while ago no point in trying to have a discussion about an issue when people dont want to inform themselves.

It seems you have not informed yourself... Refrigerants attract a tax in multiples of the carbon price based on their relation to carbon as a greenhouse gas. Refrigerants are considered synthetic greenhouse gases so 1kg of R134A is equivelent to 1.3 tonnes of CO2, and 1kg of R407C is equivelent to 1.525 tonnes of CO2. As such, each kilogram is leavied with a tax the same as its' effect in tonnes of carbon.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Ah of course many people on here seemingly really didnt care to ask questions... but just prefered to blame the government....
and believed that an increase of over 200% was legitimate...


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-07-2...claims/4154206

So are the air conditioning gas suppliers going to drop their prices or just continue to shaft their customers with an exorbidant price rise????

[TS50]

Boy oh boy, when are you people going to get it into your heads
It is not the air conditioning / refrrigeration contractor that is the bad guy here, its the government.
What has happeneded is that the Govt has added a "enviromental Levy" to refrigeratant, due to the carbon tax. It must be noted it is a "LEVY"
Depending on the refrigerant, the levy is a different amount, due to the GWP (Global Warming Potential)
R134a is one of the lower increases at about 200% of the imported price,while R404a (used in comercial refrigeration) attracts approx a levy of approx 400% of the imported price.
The way the government has done this is that the levy "CAN NOT" be shown as a seperate price, and a total price is alone allowed to be shown. So the importer of refrigerant, say pays (hypothetically) pays $20 per kg from the manufacturer, but then has to pay the government a further $40 per kg, making their cost $ 60 kg. Now as for carrying the same amount of stock, the price has trippled, they need to finance their extra stock holdings, an additional charge, plus as the product is now worth so much, they have to add extra security to their locations. So their actual cost may now be $70 a kg (was orgiinally $20 kg), naturally they need to make a profit, so they add a margin of say 20% , they on sell it to the wholesaler for $ 84 a kg.
The wholesaler also makes a margin of say 20%, which they on sell to the contractor for say $100a kg, who also say add 20%
All of a sudden this refrigerant is now $125 a kg.
Now as its a levy, and not a tax, and its a total price, by law, GST has to be charged.
Making thotal price of $137.50 a kg
yes that is a big ouch, but DO NOT BLAME the contrators etc selling you the refrigerant. The prce rise is purely from the levy imposed.
Note that quoted example is example prices only, and not reflective of any particular refrigerant.
As its a levy and not actually the carbon tax, its easy for the govt to blame extra cost of living costs caused by this onto other factors other than the carbon tax.
I was talking to a importer recently, and they believe if they sell the same amount of refrigerant as they did last year, they will pay an ADDITIONAL $400,000,000.00 a year in this Levy alone
This is a very backhanded way the govt is raising costs, but yet has the gall to let the poor guys seeling refrigerant take the brunt of the public, and let them be seen as rip off merchants
And to top it off, if they tell people that the cost is going up due to the carbon tax, they can be fined a $1,000,000 because they way the govt has hid the price in a one of price, it cant be proven exactally how much the increase is due to the carbon levy
Its all crap, and there is not even the allowance of free speech on this

[Yellow_Festiva]

400 Million more in the levy???

What do they do, supply for the whole Southern Hemisphere???

[TS50]

no mate, that is for australia only
A woolworths or a coles supermarket would have about 1500 kg of refirgerant in them
People would be amazed at how much refrigerant is used in the community
I mean look at it .6 of a kg in your car A/C
1.5kg in your house A/C
.2 of a kg in your house fridge
10kg in a small corner store
1500kg in a full size supermarket
The use of refrigerant is fairly widespread