Hospital cover, who has it?

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by csv8

I am a nurse and I don't have health insurance. If anything major happens, you will be in a public hospital. Private hospitals only want elective surgery cases, easy money ,quick turnover. They don't have emergency cases. An ambulance will always take you to a public hospital. Plus, public hospitals have DRs 24/7, private hospitals don't. Then America health insurance !!

A growing number of uninsured and underinsured Americans means the "deductible is constantly rising for the privately insured," said Quentin Young, national coordinator for Physicians for a National Health Program. That group advocates for a single-payer health system.
Kaiser's survey found that annual insurance premiums to cover people through their employers average $5,429 for single people and $15,073 for a family of four in 2011. Those rates rose 8% for single people and 9% for families. In 2010, premiums rose just 3% for families from the previous year. Kaiser Family Foundation also found premiums were lower for families at small firms than for those at large firms.

your post is interesting , but ARE YOU IN THE USA ? OR BRISNEYLAND ?

[Lotte]

I'm guessing it's situation by situation.
I have a friend who is chronically ill, and has the whole kit and caboodle, which they use a fair amount of the time. Saves them a bit, because they can be guaranteed the same person will deal with their case (I'm guessing anyway), and as it's not "life threatening" (but pretty dire), they don't have to wait for a bed.

For me, I just have ambo cover (and I should renew that, thanks for the reminder). I'd probably only consider hospital cover, and even extra's cover for next financial year, when I'll potentially go over that 70k limit in earnings. It'll depend on the situation, and I'll be talking to my regular doctor first about if I should get it. (and a finance advisor)

Aaaand, to throw my two cents in re: Public is fantastic. No, it's not. We have a friend who is in extreme need of a hip replacement (can't walk), and she's been told 18 months. They're trying to get her advanced on the list (as a public, not private), and the fight could take just as long. She can't sit in a car for more than 20 minutes (GREAT in country vic), can barely get from the car to the house, etc, and has no family nearby to look after her (bar us). But then, I also wouldn't know how it would change for private cover (though I'm assuming if she paid a bit, she'd get it done immediately)... mind you, she can't afford it, so it's a double edged sword really..

[BAXR8_Ute]

We have hospital and extras and have had it for a few years. My son needed his tonsils taken out last year and it meant he didn't have to wait on a list and we could choose his doctor rather than get whoever was working on the day. Peace of mind really. Also we are trying to have a baby and I don't want my wife to be holed up for a week in a room with 3 other people, who in our area are likely to be... Um... Undesirable. But saying this, we probably won't need it for a while after this, but I still won't get rid of it. I like the peace of mind that it's there is we need it. Maybe I'm a snob, but I'd rather my own room. People tend to **** me off.

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by BAXR8_Ute

We have hospital and extras and have had it for a few years. My son needed his tonsils taken out last year and it meant he didn't have to wait on a list and we could choose his doctor rather than get whoever was working on the day. Peace of mind really. Also we are trying to have a baby and I don't want my wife to be holed up for a week in a room with 3 other people, who in our area are likely to be... Um... Undesirable. But saying this, we probably won't need it for a while after this, but I still won't get rid of it. I like the peace of mind that it's there is we need it. Maybe I'm a snob, but I'd rather my own room. People tend to **** me off.

IT'S NOT ONLY THAT MATE . your private obstitrician has to guarantee to turn up to the birth . public hospitals do not have to supply a doctor at the birth . this happened to a friend of mine , on the day of labor , there was a shortage of doctors in the hospital and heaps of emergencies , the baby died in the womb , and no doctor attended as they were understaffed on the day, and the public obstitricians werent at the hospital that day . so there was no obstitrician at the hospital , and they lost the baby because of it . . if he she had a private doctor . that simply would not have happened .

[BAXR8_Ute]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

IT'S NOT ONLY THAT MATE . your private obstitrician has to guarantee to turn up to the birth . public hospitals do not have to supply a doctor at the birth . this happened to a friend of mine , on the day of labor , there was a shortage of doctors in the hospital and heaps of emergencies , the baby died in the womb , and no doctor attended as they were understaffed on the day, and the public obstitricians werent at the hospital that day . so there was no obstitrician at the hospital , and they lost the baby because of it . . if he she had a private doctor . that simply would not have happened .

Exactly. For when bad **** happens. That didn't happen to be blacktown hospital did it? A few friends have had horror stories after going there.

[prydey]

gtfpv - no offense mate, but these boards aren't for trying to convince everyone who doesn't agree with you that they are wrong. everyone has completely different circumstances and what is right for one may not be for another.

its great that you see fit to have private health, but it does not mean those who choose not to cover themselves the same are wrong.

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by prydey

gtfpv - no offense mate, but these boards aren't for trying to convince everyone who doesn't agree with you that they are wrong. everyone has completely different circumstances and what is right for one may not be for another.

its great that you see fit to have private health, but it does not mean those who choose not to cover themselves the same are wrong.

mate do you think i want to be in a health fund just to throw away money . no way . people can bag out health funds on the basis that they dont need one . why cant i bag out thier reasoning , with an argument that being in one is justified and benificial , to all except cashed up people . i dont see why people can boast about why thier not in one , but cant boast about why they are .

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by BAXR8_Ute

Exactly. For when bad **** happens. That didn't happen to be blacktown hospital did it? A few friends have had horror stories after going there.

no it didnt mate . dont want to name the hospital , as not sure if its right to. i'll pm you if you want to know .

[prydey]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

mate do you think i want to be in a health fund just to throw away money . no way . people can bag out health funds on the basis that they dont need one . why cant i bag out thier reasoning , with an argument that being in one is justified and benificial , to all except cashed up people . i dont see why people can boast about why thier not in one , but cant boast about why they are .

the reasons why people aren't in private health funds are every bit as valid as the reasons people are. like i said, everyone's situation is different. you can only speak for your own situation.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

mate do you think i want to be in a health fund just to throw away money . no way .

As I see it, that's the only explanation there could be, as there is no other valid reason.

people can bag out health funds on the basis that they dont need one .

That's just it, no one NEEDS one.

why cant i bag out thier reasoning , with an argument that being in one is justified and benificial ,

It's neither justified nor beneficial for anyone in this country.

to all except cashed up people .

This makes no sense. The amount of money you have has little to do with it.
In fact it could be argued that the more cashed up you are, it makes a little more sense to have private cover because over a certain amount it's offset to some degree.

Not that I think anyone needs it with our current health care system, but there's an example.

i dont see why people can boast about why thier not in one , but cant boast about why they are .

I'm not boasting about anything, I'm providing the pitfalls of having it.

Just for more info to a couple of posts above, including yours.

People often claim they would be in queer street without private cover when they need a hip replacement, or pretty much any kind of surgery that requires almost immediate attention.
What the same people forget to mention is the amount of money saved over the years (10's of years in most cases) can be used for an elective procedure.

$200 per month for private cover (somewhat conservative I might add) equals $2400 per annum. That already more than pays for a small procedure.

Multiply that by 5 and we have $12000 in 5 years. That covers a reasonable sized OP.

Multiply it by 20 years and we have $48000, pretty much enough to cover even the very worst cases. Perhaps twice.

This is based on only 20 years, many people are in it for twice that time, and many of those people never use even a fraction of that.
Many people are also paying considerably more than $200 per month.

Now, as I mentioned in an earlier post, much of even public elective surgery is covered by Medicare. You also still get to choose the surgeon and hospital.

I know your next argument will be that the majority of people won't save that money for the occasion, and that may be true. However, if you can put money into a monthly fund, why can't it be put into a savings account, which may even earn interest.

Even if you haven't or can't save the money for yourself. The next option is to borrow the money as a personal loan. There's little difference in handing over $200+ per month for health cover than there is handing over $200 a month to a bank for a $10000 procedure.
Of course there is one difference. With health cover you're ALWAYS paying, with a loan you only pay when needed.

Lastly, as a bonus, if you're past a certain threshold of self saving, and you're feeling healthy, go and spend it on some toys........

Anyway, I'm not hear to change anyones mind, everyone can make their own choice, but it's in everyones interest to make an informed and researched decision, listening to all views.

FWIW, I have also had private cover many many years ago, so I'm not speaking from a one sided POV.

Good health to all.

[Lotte]

Originally Posted by Sox

People often claim they would be in queer street without private cover when they need a hip replacement, or pretty much any kind of surgery that requires almost immediate attention.
What the same people forget to mention is the amount of money saved over the years (10's of years in most cases) can be used for an elective procedure.

$200 per month for private cover (somewhat conservative I might add) equals $2400 per annum. That already more than pays for a small procedure.

I'm not going to say you're wrong, because I completely agree, my only point about the hip replacement (and I'm only assuming that's where you got the example from), was that the waiting list would be not as long, which I could be very wrong about.
My point was simply that, this person needs this surgery now, so that they can work, leave the house etc, but it's not considered an emergency service so they have to wait 18 months. Which to me, is a flaw in the public system, not necessarily support for the private system. If that makes sense

[Sox]

Originally Posted by lotski

I'm not going to say you're wrong, because I completely agree, my only point about the hip replacement (and I'm only assuming that's where you got the example from), was that the waiting list would be not as long, which I could be very wrong about.

Sorry mate, I certainly didn't mean to offend anyone as I know this is a sensitive subject, but I actually didn't use yours as a direct example.
I used a hip replacement as it's fairly common.

My point was simply that, this person needs this surgery now, so that they can work, leave the house etc, but it's not considered an emergency service so they have to wait 18 months. Which to me, is a flaw in the public system, not necessarily support for the private system. If that makes sense

Yep it does, but as I mentioned in one of my earlier posts, this is actually partly caused by premature elective procedures by those who are privately insured.
I recognise the public system isn't perfect, however it is very good.

Has you friend looked into going into a public hospital as a private patient with their choice of surgeon?
Medicare cover 75% of those costs.....

This is what I did many years ago with the procedure I mentioned in an earlier post. I would have waited approx 18 months had I wanted to go full public. As it was, it took around 6 weeks, the same time it would have been if I had insurance.
You can choose the surgeon, hospital, and haggle with both about price.
Most surgeons are very helpful when it comes to this arrangement.

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by Sox

Sorry mate, I certainly didn't mean to offend anyone as I know this is a sensitive subject, but I actually didn't use yours as a direct example.
I used a hip replacement as it's fairly common.

Yep it does, but as I mentioned in one of my earlier posts, this is actually partly caused by premature elective procedures by those who are privately insured.
I recognise the public system isn't perfect, however it is very good.

Has you friend looked into going into a public hospital as a private patient with their choice of surgeon?
Medicare cover 75% of those costs.....

This is what I did many years ago with the procedure I mentioned in an earlier post. I would have waited approx 18 months had I wanted to go full public. As it was, it took around 6 weeks, the same time it would have been if I had insurance.
You can choose the surgeon, hospital, and haggle with both about price.
Most surgeons are very helpful when it comes to this arrangement.

SOX no one is offended , give it up and stop quoting and correcting everyones replies .

[Sox]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

SOX no one is offended , give it up and stop quoting and correcting everyones replies .

Thanks anyway, but I'll stop when I'm done, or I'm told to stop by a mod.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Sox

Even if you haven't or can't save the money for yourself. The next option is to borrow the money as a personal loan. There's little difference in handing over $200+ per month for health cover than there is handing over $200 a month to a bank for a $10000 procedure.
Of course there is one difference. With health cover you're ALWAYS paying, with a loan you only pay when needed.

this is why i've said a couple of times, its not a 'one size fits all' argument. everyones situation is different.

my daughter is type 1 diabetic. the insulin pump she is on is $8000+ and is only garaunteed for 4 years, so this means every 4 years you are up for the cost of a new one. if you have private health, it is free. either way, it is costing us about $8k every 4 years some things aren't just 'pay once' scenario.

before this, i would never have been able to justify private health. its an individual decision.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by prydey

this is why i've said a couple of times, its not a 'one size fits all' argument. everyones situation is different.

my daughter is type 1 diabetic. the insulin pump she is on is $8000+ and is only garaunteed for 4 years, so this means every 4 years you are up for the cost of a new one. if you have private health, it is free. either way, it is costing us about $8k every 4 years some things aren't just 'pay once' scenario.

before this, i would never have been able to justify private health. its an individual decision.

Sorry to hear about your daughter.

You do realise though that when you say - if you have private health, it is free. - that it isn't free, because you're paying for it monthly anyhow.
EDIT: Never mind that statement I just re-read what you wrote earlier and of course you know. But the below still may apply to you.

Aside from that, are you aware you may be eligible for for up to 80% subsidy from Medicare.
http://www.jdrf.org.au/s/media/insul..._questions.pdf

[Spanrz]

I have been long against private health. Only for the matter of reason, you want me to pay 2-3g's and still get asked for extra $$ because "we don't cover that".

There's a level where I say "pay for what you get". Which goes for anything today (pay peanuts, get monkey's).

If I choose a level worth say a grand or so, I'd expect to have to pay when the issue arises.
That being said, 3G's and over is getting to a ridiculous stage where "why should I have to pay a gap, when I pay squillions upfront??"

The problem with the Private Health system, is that people have gotten smart over the years, and wisened up to the point of "If I'm paying through the roof, I'm going to get my monies worth".
That is, go to use all services they can to get value out fo their dollar, even sometimes when you don't really need it.
That is why I am calling it a false economy.

How many people use naturopaths "because they have to" and not because they want value for their money?

In a business sense, people are using services more, which businesses have to upgrade and then we have to pay more for the upgrades, because too many people are using a service they "didn't really need".

Having said that, after many debates with my wife, we have now private health cover. Said to her, you want it, you pay.

I see the benefit of having it, only in instances where you "need" surgery now now, not "want to" have surgery now.

About a year or so ago, my wife's knee gave out, kneecap dislodged and wouldn't return. Extreme pain. Took a week to get sorted, but ended up paying for a private hospital / surgery. Kneecap was a mess. All fixed up in 1 hr, after 3-4g's paid all good.
Surgery's like this can't wait, but why are they shelved on a public system. How can anyone move around, let alone work when a kneecap is dislodged and in extreme pain, enough to show a red face from a get up or sit down on a couch?????

I have one eye, my false eye socket is in need of a repair. I lost my eye to a pellet rifle incident when I was 11.
I have been to a few doc's that have had a look at the eye/socket and told me "there is nothing wrong with it". I've been saying for 5 odd years "yes there is".
My socket has a false eye (acrylic) and a plastic orbit that is hidden beneath the skin (device that attaches the muscles too). I need to have that removed and renewed to the new tech of a piece of coral inserted.

The problem with this years ago, that the Government (Howard years) seen this as "Cosmetic" and said they didn't cover it at all. Like I had a choice of "comestic" surgery when I was 11.
A guy could go around with one arm and get the other arm covered under prosthetic work (even though the arm didn't work), where as my eye wasn't covered. Yes we need arms, but he has 2 perfect working legs and a perfect working arm. He can still work. This was my quarm.

Now the surgery is covered. So after a while, I'll get it done. But I am expecting to have to pay a gap.

After all that, even though I hate it and fully believe that the system is a rort and a false economy, it only works in instances where the "what if's" happen. And that's what we pay for.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Sox

Sorry to hear about your daughter.

You do realise though that when you say - if you have private health, it is free. - that it isn't free, because you're paying for it monthly anyhow.

Aside from that, are you aware you may be eligible for for up to 80% subsidy from Medicare.
http://www.jdrf.org.au/s/media/insul..._questions.pdf

c'mon mate, give me some credit here. i've been dealing with type 1 diabetes for 6yrs. do you not think we would have looked at ALL the options. did you notice how it said 'up to' 80%??

if i have to pay $8k every 4 years, i may as well pay it to a health fund and get other benefits with it.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by prydey

c'mon mate, give me some credit here. i've been dealing with type 1 diabetes for 6yrs. do you not think we would have looked at ALL the options. did you notice how it said 'up to' 80%??

What can I say, there's plenty who won't look into it because they have private cover.
This can be part of the problem, many things are sometimes missed.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Sox

What can I say, there's plenty who won't look into it because they have private cover.
This can be part of the problem, many things are sometimes missed.

agreed. we did not have private cover. we joined because if i have to hand over the same amount of coin either way, i may as well join a fund and have other benefits if needed.

i am not necessarily 'for' private health. i just think there isn't a blanket right or wrong answer.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by prydey

agreed. we did not have private cover. we joined because if i have to hand over the same amount of coin either way, i may as well join a fund and have other benefits if needed.

i am not necessarily 'for' private health. i just think there isn't a blanket right or wrong answer.

Fair enough.

Do you mind spilling the beans as to how much Medicare were willing to subsidise in your case?
PM me if you prefer.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by Sox

Thanks anyway, but I'll stop when I'm done, or I'm told to stop by a mod.

I think it is a good idea for a few here to lighten up a bit. Some have different circumstances and different opinions, such is life.

[Lotte]

Originally Posted by Sox

Has you friend looked into going into a public hospital as a private patient with their choice of surgeon?
Medicare cover 75% of those costs.....

This is what I did many years ago with the procedure I mentioned in an earlier post. I would have waited approx 18 months had I wanted to go full public. As it was, it took around 6 weeks, the same time it would have been if I had insurance.
You can choose the surgeon, hospital, and haggle with both about price.
Most surgeons are very helpful when it comes to this arrangement.

If one had the money outright, then this is a great option. However, on a disability pension, this isn't possible.
Which is my point. The public system, is yes very good for the median band, but not for the lower band, and those with the money to waste spend it on private, therefore getting first digs at everything.

[BA Baracus]

It's all about the speed of treatment for me/my family. I got cover as I need back surgery and wait as public patient is ridiculously long (years and years). Last week though my son (15 month old) went in to hospital to have his adenoids out and grommets in his ears because he's constantly got ear infections and makes him miserable. He went in as private patient and used hospital cover, he could of gone as public patient but would of had to wait far longer to have it done. Waiting longer not only means he crook longer and unhappy but also much more costs in visits to GP's and medications while he waits which was already racking up to large amount of money over past 6 months or so.

[z80]

The important thing that we need to remember is that even with the most expensive private health insurance you still get stung for a sizable gap between what they pay and what the doctors/hospitals charge you.

Wife brings home bills with only 30-40% refund often with the kids, especially dental bills.

So...a policy with a huge excess or wait 18 months for a free prodcedure?

Tough choice....

[Sox]

Originally Posted by z80

The important thing that we need to remember is that even with the most expensive private health insurance you still get stung for a sizable gap between what they pay and what the doctors/hospitals charge you.

Wife brings home bills with only 30-40% refund often with the kids, especially dental bills.

So...a policy with a huge excess or wait 18 months for a free prodcedure?

Tough choice....

Or the third option which is a cross betwen the two. Pay from you own pocket to by-pass the 18 month wait. Then get anything up to 75% back. With no ongoing cost.

[Trevor 57]

We don't have any 'Options' cover, just Top Hospital, we are a couple with no dependants, it is cheaper for us to just pay our way with 'Options'.

[Olbucko]

A long time ago, before Medicare, hospital cover was simple, you had insurance and your stay in hospital was paid for by your fund, you could even make a profit out it if you were put in a large ward but were insured for a private ward, if you weren't insured you had to pay the full cost and the hospital would sue you if you didn't. Hospitals were free for pensioners.

This made the choice very simple, 90% of people had hospital cover with a private fund, and because of this premiums were reasonable.

In 1974 Medibank was invented and people found that they could go to a public hospital for free, as long as they were prepared to wait in a queue, or if they wanted to they could go to a private hospital and have part of the cost covered by their private insurance.

As the years rolled by people wondered why they kept paying out year after year for private insurance when it made a stay in a public hospital more expensive for a insured person , so they stopped paying, the premiums for private insurance became larger, and the queues for public hospitals became larger and larger, and the situation gets worse as the years go by.

Twenty two years ago I dropped my private insurance after finding it cost more to treat one of my children in a public hospital after admitting that I had private insurance.

My gamble has paid off, I estimate that I would have saved twenty to thirty thousand Dollars in the last twenty two years by not paying private insurance.

I think a lot more people would use the private system if the goverment would allow the private funds to give people 100% coverage if they wished.

I am not against paying insurance, I insure my life, my houses, and my cars for fire, acccident and theft.

[Trevor 57]

I have been admitted to a private hospital about 5 or 6 times in the last year, cost = ZERO!!!

Last week my wifes doctor decided my wife needed a Gastroscopy, she had it yesterday - Private Health Insurance - oh yeah!!!

I go to the public hospital for emergencies and I use the private for other stuff

[z80]

My son is on holiday in New york at the moment.

Needed a ventolin and dispenser.

$400 for the doctor's appointment and ONE ventolin dispenser.

Sucks to live in the US me thinks and their fecked up health system.
(BTW..He got a discount cause he has just graduated as a doctor in Aus!)


he has travel insurance...but has to pay up front first....