Ethenol fuel the con.

[superpursuit83]

This may not be relevant but with all the talk of the carbon footprint to make ethanol,

If we all used it then maybe the enviroment might be better off looking at my gas tests

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by CAT600

blah, blah, blah
I didnt say the engine would make 35% more power the oxygen isnt there for that purpose.

You claimed that “Ethanol has 35% oxygen available for release in combustion” which is simply WRONG. Using your theory we should all chuck water in our tanks because it is mostly Oxygen? I'm not denying that Ethanol is a good fuel, I already said it is. And clearly you have some valuable knowledge about its practical applications. I'm suggesting you don’t sully that knowledge by making outlandish claims.

Originally Posted by CAT600

No, the claims are not irrelevant because yada, yada, yada

There is NOTHING more annoying in this forum than people like you who want to HIJACK every ******* thread and make it about YOU. This thread is about the suitability of Ethanol and its blends as a mass-market fuel, whether it should be subsidised, or whether it is (in the words of the OP) a “con.” So as I said, in the context of this thread nobody gives a **** what you do with it in your dragster. You might as well be talking about it’s use in cocktails or as an industrial cleaner.

I used to know a guy that was running his supercharged drag car on force-fed liquid LPG. It produced a ******** of power from what was exactly the same LPG you or I can buy at the servo. But how would that be relevant to the question of whether the government should continue to subsidise LPG instals?

[CAT600]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

You claimed that “Ethanol has 35% oxygen available for release in combustion” which is simply WRONG. Using your theory we should all chuck water in our tanks because it is mostly Oxygen? I'm not denying that Ethanol is a good fuel, I already said it is. And clearly you have some valuable knowledge about its practical applications. I'm suggesting you don’t sully that knowledge by making outlandish claims. There is NOTHING more annoying in this forum than people like you who want to HIJACK every ******* thread and make it about YOU. This thread is about the suitability of Ethanol and its blends as a mass-market fuel, whether it should be subsidised, or whether it is (in the words of the OP) a “con.” So as I said, in the context of this thread nobody gives a **** what you do with it in your dragster. You might as well be talking about it’s use in cocktails or as an industrial cleaner.

I used to know a guy that was running his supercharged drag car on force-fed liquid LPG. It produced a ******** of power from what was exactly the same LPG you or I can buy at the servo. But how would that be relevant to the question of whether the government should continue to subsidise LPG instals?

First up... dont quote me as saying "yada yada yada".... thats disrespectful and lowers your colours, I did not disrespect you so show some courage and argue on the merits of your words.

Now, dont twist my words, the oxygen does release during combustion but it doesnt add to the chemical reaction.. its a physical process that aids in the "cleanup" of the combustion process.... the 35% is a significant number because when you stuff 30psi (which is 3 x the number of air and fuel mass of a naturally aspirated engine at 100% VE) added to the fact that at WOT under boost 11-12:1 AFR is around 15% heavier again than a factory production engine at target 13:1 AFR then you will see that there is a huge % of unburnt air/fuel charge that not only creates unburnt hydrocarbons in the exhaust (emissions) but means that the power is not being made either.

So yes, that oxygen makes power.. if you use E10 there is less, if you use Methanol there is more.

Read here if you're unclear still :

http://www.cleanfuelsdc.org/pubs/doc...xyfactbook.pdf

Now as for turning it into a thread about me.... this forum is made up of a variety of car enthusiasts.. those that drive stock taxipacks, family cars, 4WD, small cars and yes... performance cars.

Ethanol is a big deal to the these guys, and considering how quickly E85 bowsers are springing up around the country somebody else thinks so too. If you think that I think United are opening up a new E85-capable servo on average every few days JUST FOR ME then man, I MUST have some weight in Australia!!!

I dont hate on LPG, but its not a performance fuel the way that Ethanol is and doesnt reduce hydrocarbon emissions (the greenhouse killer) as good as regualr gasoline let alone an oxygenate like Ethanol.

You can argue all you like, but when United open E85 over here soon I personally wont be thinking of the subsidy when I fuel up, I will be thinking about the extra power and cleaner burn over gasoline, lpg and whatever other alternate option you care to name.

Ethanol is best fuel option at the bowser right now for you, your car and the environment, simple.

Daniel

[superpursuit83]

Have you got a drag car Cat600?

[CAT600]

Apparently JB... I didn't realize they were not permitted and engineered street cars.

[stazza]

So is running ethanol as simple as getting a tune on my GS or is it far more in depth?

[superpursuit83]

Its not too hard or expensive. Call ya tuner and discuss.
Its just a pain its not on tap in WA.
Although i did hear 8 drums of it were on a truck next door to me today

[GREGL]

Originally Posted by flappist

That is all well and good but I read quite a few white papers on this some years ago and the bottom line was if we used all the cane and grain we are capable of growing in our country for ethanol we would only be able to supply about 4% of fuel usage.

Of course this would really fall on its bum during the next dry period of the climate cycle.

We have the worlds largest deposits of Uranium. How about using some of that and working on technology to make it safe.

Now I know that the greenie loonies will just scream "radiation, hiroshima, chenobyl, fukashima" and run around in circles singing songs and waving plackards made out of recycled dole cheques but there was once a time when most ships sank whenever there was a storm and many jet airliners exploded in flight and infection killed most surgical patients etc. etc. etc.

Hey if we can make safe uranium powered cars then WE will be the energy barons and the "world police" will be invading Melbourne, Sydney and Canberra to oust the insane dictators.......

Speed kills will take on a whole new meanig ! Everyone can be pulled over to check their radiation limit. Sir please don't step out of the car until we clear the area. Can you imagine the nightmare red tape the govt. could turn it into !