another non payment

dmat2391 · 24-11-2013, 03:07 PM

In response to another thread about times being tough. I've just copped another builder go broke on me and I've just lost another $40 000. That brings the total to $187 000 of bankruptcy losses for this financial year. Somehow we as a nation are allowing these thieves to get away with it with just a hearty slap on the wrist for being so very naughty with other peoples money. Then off they go to start a new company to go through the motions again.
If we're serious about maintaining growth in this country we could do a lot better if
1) I as a building contractor can at least demand a deposit for materials upfront

2)Take the developer to court for my materials back at least. They sign these clowns on and should know if the builder is finacial or not, since they have to have bank guarantees and what not.

I'm copping it on the chin and can't windge to much becasue a lot of other people are doing it worse than me. I've got no debt to worry about, but dang it still hurts

rant off

Yellow_Festiva · 24-11-2013, 03:22 PM

Yep. Has happened to several people I know, including my brother who is a tradie.

Everyone seems to know the loopholes and we will be hearing more and more of these stories.

Franco Cozzo · 24-11-2013, 03:45 PM

Might need to hire someone like this guy:

http://youtu.be/83dB8uwQFQM

O_o

mr smith · 24-11-2013, 03:48 PM

Yup, a mate owns a few factories and is struggling with non paying tenants. He will be locking one out this week.
Another mate just bought an empty factory with a SMSF, I recon he has done his dough. Not many people looking for space.

dmat2391 · 24-11-2013, 03:56 PM

Lol Big Damo....what really hurt was I thought he was my mate.

. Anyway it was taking so long that I did indeed get a debt collector onto him, tatts and all

. I knew he was on the way out just wanted to call his bluff and shut him down before he took out anymore tradies . spread his name long and wide around the traps.
Like I said before, I can cop it but I have mates that really couldn't now.
Best to stop them when you can.

monte.b · 24-11-2013, 07:25 PM

Sorry to hear of your problems mate ,its a tough world out there at the moment ,i often wonder how these people that send their company broke ,then start another company up and the banks support them again ,just how does that work ,ive seen it time and time again when i lived and worked on the gold coast ,there was one developer on the gold coast who i wont name has done it about 4 times and millions of dollars lost to the building companies and subbies ,its just wrong and needs to be fixed

Pepscobra · 24-11-2013, 07:27 PM

Man, that's tough :(
that's a lot of money to write off as a loss, hope you can recover the majority of it.

Bearman · 24-11-2013, 08:22 PM

Unbelievable. The misery these dodgy developers cause to hardworking folks is dreadful.

It'll continue until these crooks are rounded up and made to do some serious jail time. That will be the only way this may stop. The bank execs who continually support these fly by nighters must also be called to account.

Feathers · 25-11-2013, 12:47 AM

Not just restricted to trades.

I know of a bus operator in Sydney that's hit the wall at least 3 times now. Owing staff entitlements and lease payments on their re-bodied vehicles. I heard they had loans from one bank, secured against vehicles that were still leased from another bank. Leaving them to fight over who was going to get the proceeds of sale from them.

The guy's wife and son both have Bus Operator Accreditations (likely from companies they bought out previously), so they hide a few vehicles away under their names, in other yards, and then start up under a different name, using another accreditation.

How they are allowed to be anywhere near running a bus company (or any company, for that matter) after going broke is beyond me.

After their last dive, we got calls from some of their clients, who had 100 or more school kids standing on the side of the road waiting for buses that were never going to turn up.

The office numbers just rang out, and no one bothered to check the list of jobs that were booked, to let them know that they'd have to make alternate arrangements.

BA-XT · 25-11-2013, 05:59 AM

I see and hear this a lot. What I'd like to know is if I have a business and it fails, why can people I owe money to come after my assets? If I own a house for example or get a judgement against me so when I start working I'm forced to pay monies back?

I've never owned a business but this just seems completely unfair.

dmat2391 · 25-11-2013, 04:17 PM

the short answer is how the law views a legal entity. When you see the letters PTY LTD after a name it's no longer a business as such but a company viewed by the law as a separate entity to the owners (shareholders).
Because of this a'holes setup a number of these entities (company's) and bury all the lose in one shut it down and move the profits to another. The term is Phoenixing.
NOW...ADSIC the gov. authority that governs this is ,to put it mildly, garbage at their job. What should happen is that the director of a failed company needs to show cause as to why he/she should not be dis-aloud from directing another company for, as I understand it, 5 yrs.
If your honest, you have a company but you act as guarantor for that company just like many parents do for their kids first home loan etc. Hence how they can come after you
See how it pays to be honest

castellan · 27-11-2013, 11:50 AM

It's just the way it is.
The Liberal party are happy with the way it is and so are the ALP, in fact more than happy with it all.
It's been set up for criminals
Whatever you do don't try to fix it or you will have everyone on your back because criminals love the system because it suits them just fine.
It's the hard working person that cops it and ultimately you deserve it all ?
Why because you people do not do not unite ! so divided you fall and the fat cats look down on you all as just fools and total idiots.

I know all about it sadly but can do nothing about it all because others are like i say just stupid idiots and total fools and you will be just used and abused.

I could get a gun and just blow some of the creeps away that use good hard working people like so and i would not feel any remorse for them at all.
But hey no one gives a hoot. you loose !
I just work for others now, as i have seen too much of it all. and there is no hope.
Even the biggest no hoping useless dole bludgers that have never worked a day in their life, now i have even more respect for them lot and i know plenty of them that have never worked from leaving school more than 30 years ago. and they are all doing fine. and i see good hard working people with nothing at all left in the ditch.

05_ENFORCER · 27-11-2013, 12:35 PM

"what really hurt was I thought he was my mate.. "

There are no mates in business.........

Unlucky, I hope it works out for you....

.

XWGT · 27-11-2013, 01:00 PM

I think credit insurance may be the next thing on your shopping list.

For around $80k per annum you can ensure a debtors ledger of around $10,000,000.

Its not perfect, but works well in the instance of guys closing shop overnight.

Hope it all goes well for you

atec77 · 27-11-2013, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmat2391

In response to another thread about times being tough. I've just copped another builder go broke on me and I've just lost another $40 000. That brings the total to $187 000 of bankruptcy losses for this financial year. Somehow we as a nation are allowing these thieves to get away with it with just a hearty slap on the wrist for being so very naughty with other peoples money. Then off they go to start a new company to go through the motions again.
If we're serious about maintaining growth in this country we could do a lot better if
1) I as a building contractor can at least demand a deposit for materials upfront

2)Take the developer to court for my materials back at least. They sign these clowns on and should know if the builder is finacial or not, since they have to have bank guarantees and what not.

I'm copping it on the chin and can't windge to much becasue a lot of other people are doing it worse than me. I've got no debt to worry about, but dang it still hurts

rant off

Talk to your solicitor and the local Sherriff , you should be able to lock the debtor and his family for a decade or more , for that debt I am surprised he doesn't limp . Time to vet in the future and run the financials with a overhead but worth it to be sure to be sure .Good luck with it .

mechanic · 27-11-2013, 02:38 PM

Another angle to this is the rates arrears of these cowboys.
In a small city like Cairns there's $30 million in unpaid rates, I've contacted my councillor and the story is that the council can only chase rates after 3 years rates owing. Then major court time and expense.
But the worst bit is that a lot of it is mortgagee in possession property held by the banks and there's no way they're paying the rates.
Cairns has been hit really hard by developers going bankrupt and then starting up somewhere else.
None of this is any help to the average bloke who keeps the system going by doing the right thing and paying their way.

Sometimes we see in the media cases where ill fortune befalls an individual and the reporters say he "never had any enemies". Well the other side to that is that some people have long memories and don't take kindly to being destroyed financially.

neptune blue · 27-11-2013, 03:27 PM

I agree that its too easy for these guys to walk away then start up again over night
No justice in this world
I don't know how they live with themselves the scum bags

Boss_340 · 27-11-2013, 03:54 PM

I found my 357 magnum works well with assholes like that.
Sell your car or house I don't care, you owe me money you pay.

dmat2391 · 27-11-2013, 04:57 PM

yeah a magnum would help, if he had a car house etc. in one sense this $40 000 is me being a softc0ck . He's worked for me in the past as a carpenter and wanted to be a "player" he found the job and I wanted to help him out....8-P. Kind of backfired because I didn't do due diligence, another company he had set up was sent under by one of the big players in our industry, he kept that from me.He was hoping to trade out of it with this new company.
He also has a wife and a new born, I could very easily through him out in the street but to be honest I couldn't do it to his kid,lets face it, it's not the little fellas fault
He called me yesterday in tears, giving me excuses you know blah blah blah......... brave of him I guess.
look like I said before allthough the absolute numbers are big, my overall situation is actually prety good. Just glad I held off and just got the xr6 T and not the fpv gt . So looking forward to, in time, modding the crap out of my baby and make my own "full package" baby.

nuthin' fancy · 27-11-2013, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mechanic

Another angle to this is the rates arrears of these cowboys.
In a small city like Cairns there's $30 million in unpaid rates, I've contacted my councillor and the story is that the council can only chase rates after 3 years rates owing. Then major court time and expense.
But the worst bit is that a lot of it is mortgagee in possession property held by the banks and there's no way they're paying the rates.
Cairns has been hit really hard by developers going bankrupt and then starting up somewhere else.
None of this is any help to the average bloke who keeps the system going by doing the right thing and paying their way.

Sometimes we see in the media cases where ill fortune befalls an individual and the reporters say he "never had any enemies". Well the other side to that is that some people have long memories and don't take kindly to being destroyed financially.

Rates owing is a charge that sits in front of the mortgage. The council get paid when the property changes hands,

GREGL · 03-12-2013, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmat2391

yeah a magnum would help, if he had a car house etc. in one sense this $40 000 is me being a softc0ck . He's worked for me in the past as a carpenter and wanted to be a "player" he found the job and I wanted to help him out....8-P. Kind of backfired because I didn't do due diligence, another company he had set up was sent under by one of the big players in our industry, he kept that from me.He was hoping to trade out of it with this new company.
He also has a wife and a new born, I could very easily through him out in the street but to be honest I couldn't do it to his kid,lets face it, it's not the little fellas fault
He called me yesterday in tears, giving me excuses you know blah blah blah......... brave of him I guess.
look like I said before allthough the absolute numbers are big, my overall situation is actually prety good. Just glad I held off and just got the xr6 T and not the fpv gt . So looking forward to, in time, modding the crap out of my baby and make my own "full package" baby.

One big positive is that HE rang you , so that is a small positive . Don't wipe him just yet you might see some money when things turn around . You have basically written it off anyway so showing compassion in this case isn't doing any harm .
On the other hand if yo were subbing for a builder/developer by all means feel free to do a dirty harry . One less shonk always makes a better world .

FGII-XR6 · 04-12-2013, 08:16 AM

so you shoot or threaten to shoot someone over a debt making you a bigger low life than they are . the forum doesn't need moronic comments like that

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boss_340

I found my 357 magnum works well with assholes like that.
Sell your car or house I don't care, you owe me money you pay.

castellan · 04-12-2013, 09:28 AM

It's all fine cunningly to rip off people but don't do burnouts zero tolerance for that even if it's out on some back road etc.

Some people in business are worse than thieves, you just have to talk to them and see how they work, it's all come in spinner to them or they are just playing the game, they think it's much like a casino. they call it a game and smile.
I have said it's not a game boy, you want to watch your self, because you will come across the wrong dude one day who has nothing to lose. this type of creep destroys families without any regard at all.

How many good people i have seen go down and been destroyed due to trash like them lot.

Just best join a union or you most likely will have no future.
I wonder why unions came about in the first place ? that's right creeps pushed others around and the only option was join a union because the big boys will walk all over you if you don't.
But the problem in this country is the unions are backwards lazy and stupid.
Everyone should be happy to be in a union or somthing is wrong. and the unions hear support all the good for nothing drongos.

blackwasp · 04-12-2013, 09:40 AM

what happened to progress payments? certain milestones reached , no payment do not continue!! simple but i feel ya.

pottery beige · 04-12-2013, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by au3xr6

so you shoot or threaten to shoot someone over a debt making you a bigger low life than they are . the forum doesn't need moronic comments like that

you make me lol

yea, just write him a sternly worded letter, that'll learn him

asshats that screw people over are best not dealt with the citizen way

touch ups get results

TheSneakiness · 04-12-2013, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmat2391

NOW...ADSIC the gov. authority that governs this is ,to put it mildly, garbage at their job. What should happen is that the director of a failed company needs to show cause as to why he/she should not be dis-aloud from directing another company for, as I understand it, 5 yrs.

I was made redundant Xmas 2008 due to the director pulling the pin on his garage company because of GFC (that point may not be as true as I was told)

We were told that he wouldn't not be able to run his own company for 5 years, 4 months later I found he started a new company just selling kit sheds.

Have not seen or talked to him since.

Yellow_Festiva · 04-12-2013, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rapid_Axe

I was made redundant Xmas 2008 due to the director pulling the pin on his garage company because of GFC (that point may not be as true as I was told)

We were told that he wouldn't not be able to run his own company for 5 years, 4 months later I found he started a new company just selling kit sheds.

Have not seen or talked to him since.

While he may be the face of the company, it is probably his wife / partner / brother / sister / friend who has their name on the paperwork.

There are obvious loopholes that need to be shut down. The company director who takes millions from a company and runs it into the ground only to declare bankrupt and be found still living in their multi million dollar house that 'belongs to the wife' (who has never worked a day in their life)...

System is so broken it isn't funny.

I wonder, if I ever got audited would they allow me to get off so lightly if I can't show all my receipts, or if I can't explain where money have come from that appears in my account...

When this sort of stuff happens, a lot of the time the thieves know the loopholes and start planning years in advance. Of course 'they no longer have the money' but it doesn't mean they don't know where its gone or how to get it back when the smoke clears.

ACA does a better job at busting these dogs!