Who would buy a 4cy and/or a diesel Falcon? - Page 2

vztrt · 03-03-2011, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Oh and Diesel would be lucky to have ten years left in passenger cars (According to Mercedes)

You could say the same thing about internal combustion engines. Diesels still have heavy machinery.

bingoTE50 · 03-03-2011, 08:42 PM

I have said on other threads I do not see the point of a 2.0 turbo four in the falcon .Go the v6 for emission reasons and have a diesel.
Would I buy one ? Probably not ,after 3 BA's ,BF GT , I am over the shape and poor paint quality,brake quality,gearbox worries etc. And lets not mention resale pain ...too many special editions ,updates ,etc .

snappy · 03-03-2011, 08:54 PM

I would think a diesel rtv would sell well . But dare say its a bit of a stretch

**buggerlugs** · 03-03-2011, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bingoTE50

I have said on other threads I do not see the point of a 2.0 turbo four in the falcon .Go the v6 for emission reasons and have a diesel.
Would I buy one ? Probably not ,after 3 BA's ,BF GT , I am over the shape and poor paint quality,brake quality,gearbox worries etc. And lets not mention resale pain ...too many special editions ,updates ,etc .

Your post should be in the VFACTS post with FEB sales figures and why the falcons are not selling.........

peeds13 · 03-03-2011, 09:00 PM

I agree with Snappy. Maybe I would buy a diesel ute for work but other than that I wouldnt buy one.

HULK EF · 03-03-2011, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spvd02

6-7 seconds 0-100 in a Diesel? Very unlikely. Whilst they produce big torque numbers, 0-100 sprints are not their forte. A petrol variant of the same car is usually 1-2sec quicker than the diesel from 0-100.

Are you sure? some of the top end german diesels turbo's have big torque and are pretty quick..
nd while falcon may not yet get those engine's.. The engine's have come along way in the lat decade...

SteveJH · 03-03-2011, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Is it the same mill as in the Focus?? I got an LV TDCI for my wife and boy do you feel that 320nm of thrust when you plant the right foot down.

Yes, thats the one. And the 6 speed auto make sure its at the right revs to use the torque! Very nice on the highway, though I think the seats are a bit hard.

SteveJH · 03-03-2011, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spvd02

6-7 seconds 0-100 in a Diesel? Very unlikely. Whilst they produce big torque numbers, 0-100 sprints are not their forte. A petrol variant of the same car is usually 1-2sec quicker than the diesel from 0-100.

The V8 Turbo Diesel (230kw/700N.m) in the Range Rover Vogue does 0-100 in 7.8 seconds. The N/A V8 (276kw/510N.m) does it in 7.6 seconds.

Thats on a 4wd weighing in at 2615kg(v8 petrol)/2810kg(v8 diesel). What were you saying about diesels being slow?

The supercharged petrol v8 does it in 6.2 seconds, but thats with 375kw/625N.m.

So considering the diesel gets 9.4l/100km and the petrols get 14 and 14.9 litres/100..... How can you say diesels are slow these days?

Hell, they've even won the Le Mans 24 hour race for the last few years straight.

Ben73 · 03-03-2011, 09:15 PM

Maybe a diesel. Not a 4 cylinder petrol.

Nothing worse then seeing a nice BMW or Audi. Then it drives off and diesel engine note ruins the image.

DanielXR8 · 03-03-2011, 09:26 PM

When I am looking at Falcon I am looking for the powerful muscle car models, the turbos and V8's. If I am after economy and practicality, then I am looking for a smaller car then Falcon to start with.

While I am sure the 4 will be impressive, I don't need it in a Falcon sized car.

Dan

naddis01 · 03-03-2011, 09:33 PM

I would have a diesel Falcon (stylish) wagon and/or RTV in a heartbeat. I have a current model Mazda 6 diesel wagon and I am very happy with it. I am glad I got the diesel over the petrol. While it is a little slow off the mark once moving it can get up and bogey. I would suggest it would give an I6 Falcon a run for its money for in gear acceleration. I love the sound from inside but it does have the diesel clatter outside at idle. Also I guess the servos around here keep their bowsers clean as we don't have any troubles with dirty bowsers.

If Ford don't bring out either (or both) a Falcon wagon or RTV ute I will not be buying another new Falcon in the foreseeable future. Between my wife and myself we have had 6 new vehicles and not one of them have been a sedan (2 Falcon utes, 3 hatches and now 1 wagon) and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

While I think the Ecoboost sounds like it is going to be a great thing, I feel it is going to give marketing heartburn. I would have thought a diesel would have been an 'easy' sell.

TheInterceptor · 03-03-2011, 10:02 PM

Love diesel. The torque the clatter mmm. Have one in a falcon? Yes, IF there was a wagon. Which there wont be. I also dont want an SUV. Then again, im not a fan of EFI.

XR Martin · 03-03-2011, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buggerlugs

Geez what model diesel's are you talking about ? A 1981 Hilux or a 1982 Gemini

I walk to work and have to cross two busy roads, when a late model diesel drives past you can still smell the sulphery/sooty stench. Even the latest Euro stuff has this.

I also drive plenty of diesels through work, and yeah they have a bucket of torque, but its only for a few seconds, then you change gears, wait for the turbo to spool up bang get hit with the torque again, and as quickly as it hits, its over again.
Auto Diesels are alot better as you are holding boost between the gears.

Then theres the fact diesel engines weight alot more than a petrol engine. Like atleast 100kg in some cases.

sgt_doofey · 03-03-2011, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

I walk to work and have to cross two busy roads, when a late model diesel drives past you can still smell the sulphery/sooty stench. Even the latest Euro stuff has this.

Try the ones with particulate filters like your Peugeots and Citreons. No stench emitted from those. I've stood behind our Peugeot 307 whilst it's been running - no black smoke, no sulphur smell.

As for diesel Falcon, yes, I'd consider it. I'm also considering the EcoBoost Falcon when I update the EL towards the end of the year.
Don't forget, diesel's have a bucket load of torque, but it's only all available at a low number of revs and then it dies away the higher the RPM. The EcoBoost has a nice flat torque curve which should give you great acceleration right up to just before redline. I think if people actually drove it, they'd be surprised with it. I can't wait to give one a go later on in the year.
My shortlist, in no particular order, for replacing the EL is EcoBoost Falcon, LILPG Falcon, diesel Territory or diesel T6 Ranger when they are released.

Road_Warrior · 03-03-2011, 11:55 PM

I think the diesel in the Falcon sedan would be a waste of time, but in the ute (especially the RTV) it would be a winner. Many of the Hilux 'Workmate' utes I see getting around the place with D-series number plates on them (meaning they are brand new) are diesels.

The Ecoboost in the Falcon is really only going to appeal to fleet buyers. Particularly those who choose cars based on tailpipe CO2/klm emissions. Unless you're like my Mrs who likes the size and space of the Falcon but doesn't like its thirst, I can't see many private buyers going for them. But I could be wrong...

2011G6E · 04-03-2011, 07:31 AM

"Smelly and noisy"? Not sure how the diesel vehicles you've seen have been serviced, but modern diesel cars are often better in performance than the petrol equivelant for smoothness and outright grunt.

Back in 1984 I had a 1980 VC Commodore Four SL. It had the same size and room as a "normal" Commodore, got better fuel economy than the six cylinder, and sold reasonably well.
The only drawback was the engine...whoever thought that sawing two cylinders off a blue motor to make a four was on something that day in the design room. The only good bits from the Starfire Four were the rods...

Now if it had an engine with some real go in it, it would have been a different matter, but back then, turbos were still only found on trucks and exotic cars or as expensive and sometimes fragile aftermarket kits, but today, when it is common for a four cylinder to pump out 200hp yet at the same time be as driveable as grannys Morris Minor, there's no reason not to do it again.

Australia needs to consult Europe on diesel cars...over there diesel is normal and available in all vehicles. In fact the diesel Jaguar is often said to be the best engine in the ordinary sedans for power and amazing economy...over here you'd be flat out finding someone who'd bought a diesel Jag...

**buggerlugs** · 04-03-2011, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

I walk to work and have to cross two busy roads, when a late model diesel drives past you can still smell the sulphery/sooty stench. Even the latest Euro stuff has this.

I also drive plenty of diesels through work, and yeah they have a bucket of torque, but its only for a few seconds, then you change gears, wait for the turbo to spool up bang get hit with the torque again, and as quickly as it hits, its over again.
Auto Diesels are alot better as you are holding boost between the gears.

Then theres the fact diesel engines weight alot more than a petrol engine. Like atleast 100kg in some cases.

When we bought our Pajero Exceed Auto Diesel from the heart of Sydney, We filled it up and drove back to the Sunshine Coast on one tank of fuel. 78 litres. Had it for four years now, been brilliant. Would not even consider a petrol after getting rid of XR6 turbo ute that on a good day was lucky to get 500ks to a tank............

BrisVegas · 04-03-2011, 09:26 AM

I'm starting to think the ecoboost isn't the best choice for Falcon. It suits the Mondeo and Focus, but I think turbo diesel makes more sense for Falcon. Falcon diesel would be an awesome country/highway/towing car. In the city, I reckon Focus and mondeo are a better option and small, efficient petrol engines make more sense. Stop start driving doesn't do a diesel justice.

mik · 04-03-2011, 09:37 AM

regarding the turbo 4, i think people are forgeting the torque characteristics of a turbo, it will probably make the torque of the commodore v6 at a lower rpm, if its an alloy engine it should be lighter than the inline 6. if it has the 6 speed auto i would be expecting the ecoboost to be quite spritely, and i would be predicting similar performance to a 4.0 vct au over the 1/4 and with better fuel economy, i`m looking forward to see how the baby falcon goes.

Rodp · 04-03-2011, 01:59 PM

I had a loan diesel VW CC while having my car in for a service. From standing it lacked punch but when rolling the torque was definitely noticeable.

As commented already, they requested that I fill the tank on return. Grabbed the diesel nozzle at the station and it was covered in fuel. Only ever put petrol in a diesel once and right off the bat, diesel hand. Common? That'd annoy the bejezus out of me.

Quicksand · 04-03-2011, 02:06 PM

No. Not because they are bad, but because its not part of what i want to get out of my next car. We will be having a lifestyle change soon and will want a 4WD of some description.

I fully support a 4cyl or Diesel Falcon.

TC200six · 04-03-2011, 02:06 PM

Which Falcon would I buy if I had the choice, turbo diesel or Ecoboost 4-cylinder?

Depends on which model has the best acceleration performance. I know they're both supposed to be more efficient than the standard 4.0L six, so it doesn't bother me if the faster one was a little more thirstier.

flappist · 04-03-2011, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

All depends if the numbers stacked up in the long term
Im not going to have a ANOTHER car that sounds like a tractor and goes like a datsun just to save $2.85 a week

Corrected for accuracy....

Mr Hardware · 04-03-2011, 04:03 PM

close flaps, i save at least $3 with LPG

And to the others, yes I have 4 late model diesels - The 2.5 and 3.2L Tritons (Rubbish and only just passable respectively) and the Hyundai i30 and Santa Fe. They both ran out of puff too quickly - it was almost as if someone had put a golf ball under the accellerator - ie they change just as a petrol motor would come on power.

And all the other things, pumps are filthy, sound like ****, too nose heavy etc.

And don't give me a 'ooh you haven't driven a $45k euro diesel' because that's as good as a $200k ferrari to me - I ain't ever gonna buy one so the argument is moot.

**buggerlugs** · 04-03-2011, 04:15 PM

Horses for courses. You stick to your petrol/gas, I'll stick to my diesel. Having work and private vehicles on the one fuel thru a business helps to.............

Donny · 04-03-2011, 04:33 PM

Neither would appeal to me, and neither will ever see one red cent of my money...
To me, Deisel will always be a stinking, noisey, rattley, grotty peice of crap type engine and 4 cyl cars have never won me over in larger cars..
Refer to 2 of the biggest faliures in Aussie motoring, the camira an 4cyl commondog..

Deisel heavy machinery and heavy vehicles would have to be one of the major contributors to the list of nasties polluting our world.. Look at that thick black smoke they all belch out, and the smell of them is bad enough to make a maggot gag..

aussie muscle · 04-03-2011, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bingoTE50

I have said on other threads I do not see the point of a 2.0 turbo four in the falcon .

PERCEPTION. falcon is seen by many australians as a thirsty dinosaur (comments section on drive about the demise of falcon). i told one lady at work i drive a falcon she snorted and just said 'gas guzzler'. (that was when i had a AU 6 cyl). i think that's the unfortunate opinion of far to many.

smoo · 04-03-2011, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donny

Neither would appeal to me, and neither will ever see one red cent of my money...
To me, Deisel will always be a stinking, noisey, rattley, grotty peice of crap type engine and 4 cyl cars have never won me over in larger cars..
Refer to 2 of the biggest faliures in Aussie motoring, the camira an 4cyl commondog..

Deisel heavy machinery and heavy vehicles would have to be one of the major contributors to the list of nasties polluting our world.. Look at that thick black smoke they all belch out, and the smell of them is bad enough to make a maggot gag..

Soo many common outdated myths to that post its not worth wasting time with. Get with the 21st century.
For what it is, the 4.0l in the Falcon is an extremely efficient engine, but a decent sized modern turbo diesel would put it to shame in all areas (check out Audi A6 4.2 V8 td). Work a diesel and that is when they come into their own. One of our customers gets under 20l/100km towing his 20' boat behind his 6.5td Silverado, good luck doing that with any petrol powered Falcon.
Ford AU are only just catching up with what the Euros have been doing for years, efficient turbo diesels and low pressure turbo small capacity petrol engines.

Mr Hardware · 04-03-2011, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buggerlugs

Horses for courses. You stick to your petrol/gas, I'll stick to my diesel. Having work and private vehicles on the one fuel thru a business helps to.............

siphoning hey

Quote:

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

PERCEPTION. falcon is seen by many australians as a thirsty dinosaur (comments section on drive about the demise of falcon). i told one lady at work i drive a falcon she snorted and just said 'gas guzzler'. (that was when i had a AU 6 cyl). i think that's the unfortunate opinion of far to many.

I believe this is the number 1 reason falcons sell poorly. They see 4L, they KNOW that it will chew twice as much fuel as their 2L nubira or astra. Duh!

SumoDog68 · 04-03-2011, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donny

Neither would appeal to me, and neither will ever see one red cent of my money...
To me, Deisel will always be a stinking, noisey, rattley, grotty peice of crap type engine and 4 cyl cars have never won me over in larger cars..
Refer to 2 of the biggest faliures in Aussie motoring, the camira an 4cyl commondog..

Deisel heavy machinery and heavy vehicles would have to be one of the major contributors to the list of nasties polluting our world.. Look at that thick black smoke they all belch out, and the smell of them is bad enough to make a maggot gag..

You just have no idea

Self ignition engines are most efficient internal combustion engine design available in everyday vehicles. There is nothing grotty or rattly about them it is all high tech high pressure micron tolerances engineering of highest calibre .