School Zones Reduced Speed Limit and NO SCHOOL (vic)

[Sorted]

I am all for slowing down on school zones but i do love it when there is no school due to school holidays and we get the normal speed limits back

BUT at the moment there is still NO SCHOOL due to School Holidays and the Kids aren't back at School BUT the Reduced Speed Limit Signs are operatiing which really annoys me.

I read some where that in the case of Work Zones and Reduced Speed Limits that if the Reduced Speed Limit signs are still up as the workers have been too lazy to take them in that the operaters can get fined - this is when there is no workers and no risk.

Is this the same case for the operators of the School Zone Reduced Speed Limit Zones if there is No School and No Kids? Who switches the ON switch for these?

[LTDHO]

School speed zones are a farce in the first place.

It wont be long and it will de 40kph permanently.

[Mechan1k]

Well in NSW ... even though school kids were not back on Monday ... in the eyes of RTA/Police ... the signs were turned back on on Monday ... and it is classed as in force here.

It doesn't take into account when private schools go back a week later I think ... they still come under the public school term dates for the school zone times.

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

School speed zones are a farce in the first place.

It wont be long and it will de 40kph permanently.

i think school zones are a good idea, except when that school is in a 100 zone (ando, nsw)

[Lotte]

I dunno about other states/councils etc, but back home in country Vic, if the school is on the main highway, they make the school zone about 70km/h (don't quote me, memory is pretty fuzzy on this one, and I'm pretty sure most of the school zones I used to travel through are in areas where the main highway turns from 100 to 80 or lower depending on the size of the town).

As for school zones in general, they're useless. People more often than not, pay no hindrance to them (where I am anyway), and the kids are lulled into a false sense of security that all drivers will slow down when they have to, and it's ok to run out on the road, because "they're going slow enough to stop". I remember the days when you'd finish school and actually have to THINK before crossing the road (and I ain't that old), because it was like any other normal road. What did they call that? Oh yeah, life experience and street knowledge. Or as I tend to call it, common sense.

[zdcol71]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

School speed zones are a farce in the first place.

It wont be long and it will de 40kph permanently.

So, I'm guessing
a) You don't have kids ,or
b) You have kids who get dropped off in the sanctuary of a private school off street drop -off area.
Just out of curiosity, why exactly is it a farce to enforce a low speed limit in an area where there is a large number of kids around who may happen to have more on their minds than worrying about some moron driving through their midst that seems to think that the kids may themselves be at fault for getting injuresd in these zones?

[zdcol71]

Originally Posted by lotski

As for school zones in general, they're useless. People more often than not, pay no hindrance to them (where I am anyway), and the kids are lulled into a false sense of security that all drivers will slow down when they have to, and it's ok to run out on the road, because "they're going slow enough to stop". I remember the days when you'd finish school and actually have to THINK before crossing the road (and I ain't that old), because it was like any other normal road. What did they call that? Oh yeah, life experience and street knowledge. Or as I tend to call it, common sense.

See post above

[burnz]

school zone's for high schools..
if they cant cross the road safely by now, what chance have they got later?

[Lotte]

zdcol71: Had basically a step child for 5 years.
When I grew up (and this may just be me), but, we weren't allowed to cross the road unless we crossed at the lollipop ladies crossing, OR our parents were with us. By the time we were at what our parents classified as walking home alone age, we were near the end of our primary school days so about 10 or 11, and had to go beyond what is classified as a school zone, and had to cross roads that weren't rated a 40km/hr, as did most of our friends. Wrapping kids up in bubble wrap ain't gonna teach them responsible road safety. I'm not "against" school zones, more pro teaching kids road safety rules, in a "safer" environment (ie: learning from the school crossing supervisors etc), so when they do have to cross roads to get home that AREN'T in a school zone (because let's face it, they don't exactly cover much more than the block the school is on), they CAN.
As for high schools, I honestly think some of those kids have less common sense than their primary school counterparts....
But that's just me, and I base my opinions on the way I grew up etc.

[zdcol71]

Originally Posted by lotski

zdcol71: Had basically a step child for 5 years.
When I grew up (and this may just be me), but, we weren't allowed to cross the road unless we crossed at the lollipop ladies crossing, OR our parents were with us. By the time we were at what our parents classified as walking home alone age, we were near the end of our primary school days so about 10 or 11, and had to go beyond what is classified as a school zone, and had to cross roads that weren't rated a 40km/hr, as did most of our friends. Wrapping kids up in bubble wrap ain't gonna teach them responsible road safety. I'm not "against" school zones, more pro teaching kids road safety rules, in a "safer" environment (ie: learning from the school crossing supervisors etc), so when they do have to cross roads to get home that AREN'T in a school zone (because let's face it, they don't exactly cover much more than the block the school is on), they CAN.
As for high schools, I honestly think some of those kids have less common sense than their primary school counterparts....
But that's just me, and I base my opinions on the way I grew up etc.

I too walked to school for most of my 13 years of school. My 3 kids,(and for some years, my 3 step kids) were somewhat more coddled than me and were often driven, or bussed /trained to school.They have all crossed many roads(literally and metaphorically) and most of those crossings I know have not been at "supervised school zones", or zebra crossings etc.
Put 4,5,600 or more kids together in one place,(read school),at any given time,(read school zone restricted speed limit times), and I still say they will have more on their minds than worrying about some moron who thinks that these zones are a waste of time.(And I am not necessarilly referring to you personally)

[Lotte]

Of course they'll have more on their minds, just like when they grow up and they're getting a pizza at three in the morning in a group of 20 after a big night at the pub they won't be concerned about some idiot showing off to his mates with his fully sic car coming sideways down the street... I am of the firm belief of the following:
a) school zones bubblewrap kids way too much and lull them into a false sense of security crossing any roads
b) no matter what time it is, what's on their mind, who is shouting their name and who is texting them, kids should be taught to think of road safety first
c) society in general should be smart enough not to drive like a mong during school zone times (or in general for that matter), regardless of whether a school zone is placed there or not (circa, when they didn't exist)
d) None of the above gives anyone the right to ignore school zones.

[Streets]

Seriously guys give the "back in my day" **** a rest because you were as stupid and thick-headed in your youth as the same kids are these days. The 40kph limit is a precaution put in place for the safety of your kids; it's not part of some conspiracy to dumb down society or whatever crazy ideas you're having.

[TheSneakiness]

I'm against school zones for high schools. If you have no idea how to cross the road at that stage in life, you have absolutely no hope beyond those years.

I went to traffic school back in preschool (there was one in Dandenong years and years ago, that's the one I went to) and we learned what the signs meant and what to do at those signs.

Now it's just run across the road cause some dick said the cars only have to do 40. I can tell you here not many people go 40km/h through school zones, whether school is on or not.

[3vXT]

Kids are kids, sometimes they do stupid things but they shouldn't have to pay for it with their lives. When you are going past a school, just slow down a bit and assume one of them will run out in front of you. Odds are it will be unnecessary but it's not going to mess your day up too much.

People are so concerned about losing a few seconds or minutes of their day, so what? I think they are the ones that aren't living in the real world with the rest of us.

[Ducati888]

A lot of private & catholic schools are back today. Publics in Vic are back on Friday.

[LTDHO]

Originally Posted by zdcol71

So, I'm guessing
a) You don't have kids ,or
b) You have kids who get dropped off in the sanctuary of a private school off street drop -off area.
Just out of curiosity, why exactly is it a farce to enforce a low speed limit in an area where there is a large number of kids around who may happen to have more on their minds than worrying about some moron driving through their midst that seems to think that the kids may themselves be at fault for getting injuresd in these zones?

None of the above.
I went to school for the usual 13 years, back before cars had ABS.
My primary school whas spread over 3 sites and a road had to be crossed to get to each. During "play lunch" and lunch these roads were crossed by kids several times whilst unsupervised. During those 13 years, no kids were ever stuck by a car and the limit was a [sarcastic]lethal[/sarcastic] 60kph?

When I last looked, kids today are made out of the same blood and guts they were in the 80's. Cars are a lot more safer.

Why is it a farce?
At school we were taught to look and then cross as cars will hurt a lot if they kit you. Today, cars are forced to slow so kids have less to be concerned about.

Kids have access to roads where cars can legally travel in excess of 80kph. At anytime, they can chase a ball or dog or simply not look.
So I ask, what's the difference?

[casabonka]

School went back on Monday in NSW - with the most vulnerable of all - Kindie Kids.
Seriously, how hard is it to slow down for a few 100 metres for a couple of hours a day...

[flappist]

The problem is simple.

Back when I was a school there was not a huge problem with traffic jams and idiot drivers at 9 or 3 as we all had to walk/ride to school.

It was the height of embarrassment to be dropped off by a parent.

Of course now it is far too dangerous to let your kids walk or ride to school with all the terrorists and armed robbers and paedophiles and lions and tigers and land mines and whatever else is on home and away or oprah to scare us.

My generation often wonder why so many of the young are such pathetic little self centred incommunicative lazy malcontents who expect everything to be done for them.

I wonder if it has anything to do with not letting kids:
Play sport, they may be hurt.
Fail exams, it may upset them.
Make a decission, it may be wrong.
Look after themselves for a bit, they may get hurt.
Go somewhere by themselves, they may get lost.
Actually earn money, they need their freedom.
Do without the latest gizmo, what about their self esteem & peer pressure.

So it is all our fault and it has already entered the second cycle. (which is funny in that the blame everything on your parents has turned around and is not so true when you are the parent)

Whan I become King school zones will be no parking, no drop off within 200m with pay for drop off points manned by local council workers (so you know they will be nasty) and dropping kids off double parked added to hoon laws so the toorak tractors get a nice holiday.

Result:
Less fat kids, less fat parents, less traffic and more income to local government to fix roads outside schools.

[LowEL2XR8]

When there are cars banked up on both sides of the road and kids and parents everywhere do you really need a sign to tell you risk has gone way up, and to slow your car down?
Its not just kids but cars illegally parked everywhere, cars pulling out in a hurry, cars waiting for a spot on the side of the road; blocking traffic. If you need a sign for that there is something wrong with you. But your probably too busy texting to see all the motion anyway.

[Lotte]

Originally Posted by flappist

Of course now it is far too dangerous to let your kids walk or ride to school with all the terrorists and armed robbers and paedophiles and lions and tigers and land mines and whatever else is on home and away or oprah to scare us.

Originally Posted by flappist

I wonder if it has anything to do with not letting kids:
Play sport, they may be hurt.
Fail exams, it may upset them.
Make a decission, it may be wrong.
Look after themselves for a bit, they may get hurt.
Go somewhere by themselves, they may get lost.
Actually earn money, they need their freedom.
Do without the latest gizmo, what about their self esteem & peer pressure.

Truth.

[zdcol71]

Originally Posted by ken2903

Kids are kids, sometimes they do stupid things but they shouldn't have to pay for it with their lives. When you are going past a school, just slow down a bit and assume one of them will run out in front of you. Odds are it will be unnecessary but it's not going to mess your day up too much.

People are so concerned about losing a few seconds or minutes of their day, so what? I think they are the ones that aren't living in the real world with the rest of us.

Plain and simple, I wish I had been so succinct. Well said.

[charles_wif_xf]

Originally Posted by flappist

The problem is simple.

Back when I was a school there was not a huge problem with traffic jams and idiot drivers at 9 or 3 as we all had to walk/ride to school.

It was the height of embarrassment to be dropped off by a parent.

Of course now it is far too dangerous to let your kids walk or ride to school with all the terrorists and armed robbers and paedophiles and lions and tigers and land mines and whatever else is on home and away or oprah to scare us.

My generation often wonder why so many of the young are such pathetic little self centred incommunicative lazy malcontents who expect everything to be done for them.

I wonder if it has anything to do with not letting kids:
Play sport, they may be hurt.
Fail exams, it may upset them.
Make a decission, it may be wrong.
Look after themselves for a bit, they may get hurt.
Go somewhere by themselves, they may get lost.
Actually earn money, they need their freedom.
Do without the latest gizmo, what about their self esteem & peer pressure.

So it is all our fault and it has already entered the second cycle. (which is funny in that the blame everything on your parents has turned around and is not so true when you are the parent)

Whan I become King school zones will be no parking, no drop off within 200m with pay for drop off points manned by local council workers (so you know they will be nasty) and dropping kids off double parked added to hoon laws so the toorak tractors get a nice holiday.

Result:
Less fat kids, less fat parents, less traffic and more income to local government to fix roads outside schools.

Word flappy, couldn't have put it better myself.

School zones are just another nanny state concept. And whats worse is that none of it has anything to do with actually making things safer, its about govco covering its **** should something happen.

[LTDHO]

Originally Posted by flappist

The problem is simple.

Back when I was a school there was not a huge problem with traffic jams and idiot drivers at 9 or 3 as we all had to walk/ride to school.

It was the height of embarrassment to be dropped off by a parent.

Of course now it is far too dangerous to let your kids walk or ride to school with all the terrorists and armed robbers and paedophiles and lions and tigers and land mines and whatever else is on home and away or oprah to scare us.

My generation often wonder why so many of the young are such pathetic little self centred incommunicative lazy malcontents who expect everything to be done for them.

I wonder if it has anything to do with not letting kids:
Play sport, they may be hurt.
Fail exams, it may upset them.
Make a decission, it may be wrong.
Look after themselves for a bit, they may get hurt.
Go somewhere by themselves, they may get lost.
Actually earn money, they need their freedom.
Do without the latest gizmo, what about their self esteem & peer pressure.

So it is all our fault and it has already entered the second cycle. (which is funny in that the blame everything on your parents has turned around and is not so true when you are the parent)

Whan I become King school zones will be no parking, no drop off within 200m with pay for drop off points manned by local council workers (so you know they will be nasty) and dropping kids off double parked added to hoon laws so the toorak tractors get a nice holiday.

Result:
Less fat kids, less fat parents, less traffic and more income to local government to fix roads outside schools.

I owe you a drink.
Well said!

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by charles_wif_xf

School zones are just another nanny state concept. And whats worse is that none of it has anything to do with actually making things safer, its about govco covering its **** should something happen.

Of course cause when stuff does happen its always someone else's fault. Just like when a bunch of P-platers write themselves off. Its obviously the governments fault and something needs to be done!

[OzJavelin]

Vote 1 - Flappist for Supreme Overlord of Australia ( democracy just doesn't work people! )

[RedHotGT]

Originally Posted by OzJavelin

Vote 1 - Flappist for Supreme Overlord of Australia ( democracy just doesn't work people! )

Me thinks Julia mightn't last long...

You'd have a few voters from FF Flappist...

Why not?

[JC]

Without knowing fo sure, my guess is that School zones are probably the product of a parent of a run over child suing the local school/council/government for not providing due care. I can think of no other reason for it except maybe something from the Scruby files. But, as a parent, I am happy for school zones to exist to slow idiots down.

And yes, my kids are dropped off and picked up because school is on the way to work. When they move schools in 2013, they will be bussing it like I did when I was a kid (20km each way). They do play sport and have to earn pocket money and we control what they are allowed to spend said money on (most goes into a bank account for them).

[zdcol71]

Originally Posted by charles_wif_xf

Word flappy, couldn't have put it better myself.

School zones are just another nanny state concept. And whats worse is that none of it has anything to do with actually making things safer, its about govco covering its **** should something happen.

Given that a growing number of parents treat schools and teachers as just that, nannies, then you may be close to the mark with your nanny state comment, but given also that a lot of these kids are probably young enough to still need nannies, how do you bring "govco covering its' ****" into the equation. When a 7 year old runs in front of a bus,(cause thats what kids often do) and gets hit and killed because some moron thinks that a school zone is "govco covering its ****", whats the logic then..."oh well, he won't do that again"
The idea of these zones,(wether the listed speeds are statistically proven to be relevant or not), is to make people like the "govco", "take responsibility for your own actions", "revenue raising" mantra bleaters aware that school age kids do some silly things and maybe, just maybe if something goes wrong, it may just be "your" fault

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by Mechan1k

Well in NSW ... even though school kids were not back on Monday ... in the eyes of RTA/Police ... the signs were turned back on on Monday ... and it is classed as in force here.

It doesn't take into account when private schools go back a week later I think ... they still come under the public school term dates for the school zone times.

Actually many school were back Monday.

When I was in yr 11 and 12, we had the entire school to ourselves.
The youngest people at the school were 16. And some were as old as 19.
We still had a school zone, reducing cars from 50 down to 40. Seriously, Most of the people in the school were DRIVING THEMSELVES home. The 40 zone only caused all students to leave the school slower.

It is not even a busy road in the first place!
If these 16-19 year olds were unable to cross a road with a limit of more then 40. Then they must have something wrong with them. And wont last long anyway.

For those who had to walk down to the bus stop, there were teachers standing on the corner 2 black away from the school to make sure the students crossed and waited for traffic lights instead of just crossing whenever it was safe. The students who crossed against the light would receive in school punishment.
This leave of bubble wrap is just pathetic.
You don't need to supervise 18 year olds crossing the road, that is just sad.

[Streets]

Yeah, schools exercising a duty of care for their students; what are they thinking?