Diesel or Petrol

geckoGT · 18-03-2011, 11:30 AM

I am presently trying to decide on a car that I am going to buy and it comes in two options, either diesel or petrol. The rest of the car is the same and the diesel costs $3500 more.

Now I have worked out the fuel expenses based on todays fuel prices, annual distance of 25,000 km and expected term of ownership of 4 years. The result was that the fuel saving covers the increased cost of the diesel but does not offer any real saving in a fuel cost perspective alone. I am yet to ask about servicing costs or look into the insurance side of things but I will.

This is where my thought process gets complicated, I am now considering what the crystal ball for 4 years down the track holds for us.

As this car is a euro and diesels are gradually getting more popular, will we eventually get to a point similar to in europe where diesels are much more popular and subsequently fetch much better resale figures. Using this thought if the diesel costs $3500 more to buy but gets $2500 better resale, there is a cost saving in the diesel over the life of the car. The last figure I heard was that 80% of cars sold in europe are diesel, could australia approach those figures in the next 4 years? We probably have already seen a massive increase in the popularity of diesel cars over the last few years, could this continue as fuel prices increase?

Also with all this recent talk of a carbon tax for businesses and the cost associated with that it caused me to consider the chance of similar emissions taxes being applied to private motor vehicles by our money hungry government. The UK has an emissions tax applied to vehicles, could we see that in the next 4 years as well. The introduction of such a tax would not only alter the running costs of a car, potentially giving a diesel a clear advantage over the petrol model, but it could also have a large effect on the resale market with the diesel being much more popular and therefore getting much better resale. What do you all think of this, could we see that happen in the near future?

Mr Hardware · 18-03-2011, 12:15 PM

Quote:

The last figure I heard was that 80% of cars sold in europe are diesel, could australia approach those figures in the next 4 years?

No. Quite simply because Europe's fuel excise makes petrol significantly dearer than diesel, where as in oz the excise is similar making the price similar.

And I don't see how rising oil costs are going to make diesel cheaper, there is more oil in a litre of diesel than in a litre of petrol.

stang65 · 18-03-2011, 12:20 PM

yeah but isn`t the oil in diesel recycled oil or waste oil that's why it is claimed to be environmentally better?

Mr Hardware · 18-03-2011, 12:27 PM

Quote:

potentially giving a diesel a clear advantage over the petrol model

How? 2.32kg of CO2 per litre of petrol, 2.66kg of CO2 per litre of diesel.
So you might get 15% better fuel consumption but you will pollute 15% more per litre therefore negating any 'savings'.

TheSneakiness · 18-03-2011, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Now I have worked out the fuel expenses based on todays fuel prices, annual distance of 25,000 km and expected term of ownership of 4 years. The result was that the fuel saving covers the increased cost of the diesel but does not offer any real saving in a fuel cost perspective alone. I am yet to ask about servicing costs or look into the insurance side of things but I will.

I would do this and factor that in as well.

I know that in our diesel, part of the 90,000-110,000km service is that their is something related to the valves that needs replacing and that particular service is gonna cost well over the $1k mark. The last service we had was about $420.

If it is a smaller diesel car (Golf, Jetta, Mondeo, Cruze) I wouldn't think it would be too bad running wise with tyre replacements and simple things like that, but if you're looking in the family hauler category I suggest you shy away from it, simply because you can multiply the service and running cost five-fold and you'd just be in the ballpark.

burnz · 18-03-2011, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stang65

yeah but isn`t the oil in diesel recycled oil or waste oil that's why it is claimed to be environmentally better?

correct it's a byproduct..

gecko have you done the sum's right??
petrol/diesel price is parrity with either one being cheaper on weekly cycle.
resale is better for diesel.
lifespan of diesel is better.
naturally economy is better moreso in town/city use.
service depends on who does this, diesel oil is cheaper to buy, filters the same..
service intervals.
general maintanance; plugs, leads, fuel filters, perishable hoses, consumable's..(whats cheaper dunno)

Mr Hardware · 18-03-2011, 12:43 PM

Thats right rapid_axe. Servicing costs are more expensive for a diesel by a significant proportion. Just for a measure, go price a fuel pump for a petrol car and then price one for the diesel version. $100 for the petrol one, $1000 for the diesel one.

burnz · 18-03-2011, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rapid_Axe

I would do this and factor that in as well.

I know that in our diesel, part of the 90,000-110,000km service is that their is something related to the valves that needs replacing and that particular service is gonna cost well over the $1k mark. The last service we had was about $420.

If it is a smaller diesel car (Golf, Jetta, Mondeo, Cruze) I wouldn't think it would be too bad running wise with tyre replacements and simple things like that, but if you're looking in the family hauler category I suggest you shy away from it, simply because you can multiply the service and running cost five-fold and you'd just be in the ballpark.

i think you'll find thats the timing belt, same willbe for a petrol..
if they are saying fuel pump go to some one else, as this wont be the case.

naddis01 · 18-03-2011, 12:57 PM

So far with our diesel servicing has been similar to our previous petrol car and is no dearer than the Egas ute I drive. We sell our cars before warranty runs out so the fuel pump cost theory won't apply to us.

It cost about $1500 more for the diesel but this will be returned in resale.

Insurance for some reason is cheaper than what we were saying for our smaller petrol car.

Not to mention that it has more power and torque than the petrol version.

I have a feeling you are over thinking things. Basically choose the car that you like better.

XLR8tor · 18-03-2011, 01:19 PM

For what its worth i aggree with naddis01. It's easy to over think things. We're looking at a territory for the family and were waiting for the deisel option to be released, then the missus brings up noise, smoke, vibration, all the things from the desiels of old...... at the end of the day we'll be test driving both one after the other and will buy the one that drives the best.

geckoGT · 18-03-2011, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

How? 2.32kg of CO2 per litre of petrol, 2.66kg of CO2 per litre of diesel.
So you might get 15% better fuel consumption but you will pollute 15% more per litre therefore negating any 'savings'.

How do you figure that? The figures for the car I am considering are 129g/km for the diesel and 171g/km for the petrol for the CO2 emissions which is the figure many of these emissions taxes are calculated on.

Ben73 · 18-03-2011, 01:23 PM

What car is it? To me that is a factor that would help sway my decision.

geckoGT · 18-03-2011, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rapid_Axe

I would do this and factor that in as well.

I know that in our diesel, part of the 90,000-110,000km service is that their is something related to the valves that needs replacing and that particular service is gonna cost well over the $1k mark. The last service we had was about $420.

If it is a smaller diesel car (Golf, Jetta, Mondeo, Cruze) I wouldn't think it would be too bad running wise with tyre replacements and simple things like that, but if you're looking in the family hauler category I suggest you shy away from it, simply because you can multiply the service and running cost five-fold and you'd just be in the ballpark.

Thanks, it is a smaller car, a Mini Countryman Cooper S or Cooper SD

blueoval · 18-03-2011, 01:24 PM

I plan on getting either a diesel Golf or Audi in the next year or so. The extra power and economy has won me over. I think its worth a bit extra in maintenance costs personally.

geckoGT · 18-03-2011, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

correct it's a byproduct..

gecko have you done the sum's right??
petrol/diesel price is parrity with either one being cheaper on weekly cycle.

Thanks, yes I have done the sums right and I was calculating it on fuel prices as of yesterday. I like many people here only run my 2 turbo cars on 98 and will not change from that in future turbo cars. Therefore as of yesterday diesel (caltex vortex diesel) was $1.539/L and Vortex 98 was $1.589/L, at the same servo and at the same time.

geckoGT · 18-03-2011, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naddis01

I have a feeling you are over thinking things. Basically choose the car that you like better.

That I may be, no matter what the sums say I will be factoring the test drive into it heavily. Unfortunately I can not yet test drive the diesel version as there are none in australia at this stage.

I just want to make the right decision as it is a sizeable financial outlay and it is also interesting to scope out popular opinion.

geckoGT · 18-03-2011, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

No. Quite simply because Europe's fuel excise makes petrol significantly dearer than diesel, where as in oz the excise is similar making the price similar.

That is quite true but that excise is not set by the oil companies, it is set by the government. Many EU governments applied this excise to encourage people out of petrol cars and into diesel, it has nothing to do with manufacturing costs of the fuel. This leads to an element of my question, what if in two years time the government in its wisdom lumps a 10% emission excise on ULP and PULP but not LPG and diesel. That would considerably alter the figures in terms of running costs and resale value. Food for thought.

TheSneakiness · 18-03-2011, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

i think you'll find thats the timing belt, same willbe for a petrol..
if they are saying fuel pump go to some one else, as this wont be the case.

Before we got the Paj serviced last we rang a few different places and 80% of them mentioned this valve replacement had to be done. I know the timing belt will need to be done eventually but this was something else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Thanks, it is a smaller car, a Mini Countryman Cooper S or Cooper SD

. There's one on the lot near James Frizelles Mazda dealership in Southport and I wouldn't call it a Mini.

Might look at the specs on that.

geckoGT · 18-03-2011, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rapid_Axe

. There's one on the lot near James Frizelles Mazda dealership in Southport and I wouldn't call it a Mini.

Might look at the specs on that.

Without getting too deep into discussion on the merits of the particular vehicle as this is not my aim, why do you say that? I have looked heavily into the specs and for us it is a good option as we love our Mini but could use a bit more room. I have driven the Countryman and it is very much a Mini, just more room and a bit more comfort.

rag top · 18-03-2011, 02:20 PM

I went for a diesel because it better suited my driving style. Lots more torque down low. I did my fuel savings calculations in comparison to the car it replaced, not with the petrol version of the same model. Couldn't see the point, as the petrol version was sluggish, and wasn't even in contention.

Went from an AU falcon to a Mazda 3. Both were runaround cars.

TheSneakiness · 18-03-2011, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Without getting too deep into discussion on the merits of the particular vehicle as this is not my aim, why do you say that? I have looked heavily into the specs and for us it is a good option as we love our Mini but could use a bit more room. I have driven the Countryman and it is very much a Mini, just more room and a bit more comfort.

Sorry, was just trying to make a joke. To me from the road it looked like a Maxi, not a Mini.

Jim Goose · 18-03-2011, 02:29 PM

I didnt know you could convert diesel to gas until this morning i heard a ad on the radio about it....

They do vehicle conversions as well...

http://www.dieselgasaustralia.com.au...t.aspx?ID=Home

Ben73 · 18-03-2011, 02:55 PM

I'd say diesel.
Having said that. I want a 4x4. And they come in v8 petrol or v6 diesel. I'll go for the petrol and concider gas as a possibility.

FGII-XR6 · 18-03-2011, 03:01 PM

it's not a complete conversion it uses about 25% gas and the rest is diesel not only does it improve running cost it give a considerable power boost with some systems

mik · 18-03-2011, 03:18 PM

i can`t see small diesels makeing a dramatic change in popularity overnight somehow.

prydey · 18-03-2011, 03:22 PM

as diesel becomes more popular, price will inevitably rise. supply and demand.

once upon a time, when diesel was mainly for commercial vehicles, it was about half the cost of petrol. then it became more popular in passenger vehicles and today diesel is always around the same as petrol, give or take. diesel is starting to grow in popularity again as it finds its way into every shape and size vehicle available.

Mr Hardware · 18-03-2011, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by au3xr6

it's not a complete conversion it uses about 25% gas and the rest is diesel not only does it improve running cost it give a considerable power boost with some systems

correct. also helps turbos spin up much, much faster.

Franco Cozzo · 18-03-2011, 04:04 PM

Diesel is better to drive, so much torque.

I'm a diesel convert, don't think I can go back to petrol engines after this.

jpd80 · 18-03-2011, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Diesel is better to drive, so much torque.

I'm a diesel convert, don't think I can go back to petrol engines after this.

Give Ecoboost a try, it might surprise you with diesel like torque and lots more horsepower....

Mr Hardware · 18-03-2011, 04:11 PM

I don't think it's fair to compare a Turbo Diesel to a Petrol motor
Compare a Turbo Petrol (ie ecoboost) with a Turbo Diesel, now that's a real comparison