Our chaotic penalty system

prydey · 15-09-2011, 12:23 PM

http://www.news.com.au/national/a-fi...-1226136967791

and the councils/govts/police etc wonder why no one respects them. i guess its very similar in sport. consistancy in punishment is one of the biggest complaints.

lets face it, we all stuff up from time to time, but why should someone living in one state have to pay up to 6 times the amount of someone living in another state.

what will happen now is they will see a great opportunity for increased revenue. they will see which state has the highest penalty for whatever offence, and make all other states the same.

Jim Goose · 15-09-2011, 12:40 PM

When you watch RBT or the other aussie Police shows the fines given out for various traffic offences are so widely different its not funny.

The Magistrates out there (along with the court system) appears to be very out of touch with what the public expect (which is fair and consistent sentencing).

We have a national set of uniform road rules (with a few differences per state) why not a uniform set of fines?

fmc351 · 15-09-2011, 12:48 PM

States rights. The fed has no place in setting the states fines/penalties. States could agree to a uniform set, but Im not sure who that helps. If you think penalties are too harsh, lobby govt, if you think them too soft, lobby govt. If you dont live there, and think them too high, obey the rules, go to another state or live with it.

FGII-XR6 · 15-09-2011, 01:14 PM

feds have already imposed national licencing standards so I'm sure a national penalty system would not be beyond their power. remember federal legislation always over rules state legislation where the 2 conflict

Quote:

Originally Posted by fmc351

States rights. The fed has no place in setting the states fines/penalties. States could agree to a uniform set, but Im not sure who that helps. If you think penalties are too harsh, lobby govt, if you think them too soft, lobby govt. If you dont live there, and think them too high, obey the rules, go to another state or live with it.

Ducati888 · 15-09-2011, 01:15 PM

That's true only where State penalties are not in conflict with Federal. Federal always trumps state. Generally fines are set out as "penalty units". That's how they are described in the constitution.

I thnk states can put any value they wish on a penalty unit, though I 'd be happy to be corrected on any of the above with proof not opinion.

fmc351 · 15-09-2011, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by au3xr6

feds have already imposed national licencing standards so I'm sure a national penalty system would not be beyond their power. remember federal legislation always over rules state legislation where the 2 conflict

Not quite, they are limited by the Constitution. Remember the gun laws, the fed needed to get the states to agree. Or how about health care, again, the fed needs the states to agree. National road rules would have required states agreement. As I said, they can agree, but dont have to. Sometimes the fed can offer a bribe or blackmail of sorts to gain that agreement, but they call it negotiations. I seem to recall there was funding inducement in the NT when the 130 limit was imposed.

Penalties are best left to the states IMO. There is no gain in making them uniform, unless you end up thinking that doing that 20 k over is only worth X amount and worth the risk, only to find it was 5 times that amount and wasnt worth the risk. I couldnt tell you what the fine is for 20 over in this state, let alone any other.

Personally, I prefer the states to handle as much as possible, and leave the fed to handle the bigger things. We have 3 levels of government for a good reason, most decisions are best left to those more local to the issues. As someone said, the fines in the cheaper states will go up, it wont be the higher states going down, so no gain for many motorists but a there is loss for them, but some who are jealous in the dearer states or those with agendas in those cheaper states will be happy if it did happen.

prydey · 15-09-2011, 10:45 PM

i put this in 'the bar' because its not really just about cars and speeding.

some penalties are akin to a slap on the wrist, whilst others are way over the top. surely some consistancy isn't too much to ask.

sudszy · 17-09-2011, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

i put this in 'the bar' because its not really just about cars and speeding.

some penalties are akin to a slap on the wrist, whilst others are way over the top. surely some consistancy isn't too much to ask.

If we are talking about sentencing inconsistencies for violent crimes etc, then I do believe that there appears a case to answer for, but if its for local bylaws, traffic, parking offences and the like I have no problem with what each state is reportably doing.

Keepleft · 17-09-2011, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by au3xr6

feds have already imposed national licencing standards so I'm sure a national penalty system would not be beyond their power. remember federal legislation always over rules state legislation where the 2 conflict

The feds imposed nothing of the sorts. KEATING (ALP) kicked off the agenda that would seek to harmonise our basic rules of the road.

AUSTRALIA, on behalf of the states and territories contracted the UN Convention on Road Traffic (49' Gazz 53) and this holds our primary road rules; Keatings move is to harmonise those basics uniformally. They/we don't always get each quite right.

Australia is a nation of sovereign states.

SEZ213 · 17-09-2011, 05:07 PM

I read a couple of the side 'fine' stories - and to be honest, some of them make me laugh - in the ACT you get fined for not being neat and tidy if you're a taxi driver...$121. In SA you get fined $43 for a parking fine and if you forget to pay it, you're issued with a $45 fine on top of that - either way you're getting a fine for bad time management...but with two separate dollar values...

No, there's no consistency - and from looking at the animal cruelty fines on that, it probably wouldn't be such a bad thing if the rest of the states followed Queensland's lead...perhaps the other states could manage to get people to pay the fines though...

Oh...and if you go to the states...make sure your car doesn't impersonate a wolf...whatever the hell that means...

Franco Cozzo · 17-09-2011, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sezzy

in the ACT you get fined for not being neat and tidy if you're a taxi driver...$121.

Lol I think we need that here in Melbourne.

Bobman · 19-09-2011, 02:55 AM

Have to wonder if someone assaulted a politician, would they get an increased penalty to "set an example"? I highly doubt that they would be given a lenient charge, when compared to the average citizen.

It's pretty embarrassing that in this country you can quite often be penalised more for tax evasion than for taking one's life. Common sense needs to return!

flappist · 19-09-2011, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobman

Have to wonder if someone assaulted a politician, would they get an increased penalty to "set an example"? I highly doubt that they would be given a lenient charge, when compared to the average citizen.

It's pretty embarrassing that in this country you can quite often be penalised more for tax evasion than for taking one's life. Common sense needs to return!

It is a completely different offence to assault a politician with much stronger penalties.

I mean what do you expect in a country where tax fraud rivals murder in the level of resources committed towards resolution........