Will Territory become Fords No1 local?

[Bossxr8]

As the title says, will Territory become Fords No1 local car, taking over from Falcon, cause it seems like it's heading that way. Its seems likely the Territory will take over from Falcon in sales this year, it has strong order books where Falcon has none. Ford have increased Territory builds to near 1 to 1 with Falcon, but is it time Ford changed that and started building more Territorys than Falcon and started to concentrate more on the Territory than Falcon?

I've heard rumours they may be looking at LPi Territory again, not sure how true that is but I think anything that Ford can do to increase Territory sales can go some way to compensating for lower Falcon sales they are now achieving. It works out better in a way because Territory is Fords cash cow, it sells in much higher numbers to private buyers and most of the sales go to the more expensive TS and Titanium, and most are diesel, which with the high aussie dollar makes that $3250 diesel price premium more profitable now than what it was when released.

The SUV market is solid, it continues to grow, Ford can rely on sales staying at or rising above current levels due to the popularity of SUV's, something they can't rely on with large cars, which continue to fall. I think now is the time to make the switch.

I think adding a few extra models to the range would be a good step, I don't think they'd do an XR version but how about a Territory Sport. Mesh grilles like XR, maybe some small side skirts and a front bumper lip, lower firmer suspension and 19's as standard. XR style seats and instrument cluster. I6 or 3 litre diesel as an option, to keep costs down use the 180kw 500nm Land Rover version, it would go pretty well. Either RWD petrol or RWD/AWD for diesel. Might be expensive to engineer the 3 litre but I don't think the 2.7 cuts the mustard in a sports application. Maybe try to position it between TS and Titanium.

And maybe go above Titanium with a Titanium LTD, they looked at doing an LTD version back in 2004, to tap into the growing luxury SUV market. Fit some more chrome, maybe make the chrome grille bars solid chrome like Explorer, fit some quality Howe leather like they used to fit to LTD, maybe splash some more of it around the cabin to the handbrake lever, door trims etc, a branded upgraded audio, well above premium sound, powered tailgate and some other gadgets.

Thoughts?

[Nikked]

If thats the case, it would not be that bad. Hopfully it will help the case for the falcon, aslong as the two share platforms.

[FPV GTHO]

It would be great if they could do it and keep the same line rate, that way every Falcon not getting built is a higher profit Territory.

Something like a sport model might work, but it would be the same application as an NA XR6 Falcon so Ford might not actually be that opposed to using the XR nomenclature. I think they would need a taller wheel/tyre package though. The current 18's dont show it as bad, but the old 17" wheel package looked tiny. Kluger wears the same profile tyre on a 19 as Territory does now on an 18.

[TMC]

LPi Territory would sell well. They just need around 120L usable to allow towing a decent distance in the outback. Towing a caravan with that would get you 600km. Non towing on the open road would get nearly 900km. Two 62L usable torroid tanks tucked underneath where the fuel tank is now would do it. Not sure what that would do to ground clearance as I haven't measured it. You could keep the spare wheel where it is and have 7 seats.

As for different variants, I'm going to say something that many would agree with. Bring back the Turbo I6 and have it available in AWD and 2WD, as well as the NA I6 in both arrangements. You could go back to SX to SYII front diff with the AWD petrol like it was always done. The diesel front diff is a bit iffy to me with a clutch or something on the transfer case. You don't need that sort of arrangement with the petrol anyway.

For the LTD version make it AWD and the SC Coyote 5L motor only. Would that sell? Absolutely.

[Bossxr8]

Forget I6 Turbo or V8, they tried the turbo and it didn't work, they were guzzlers and sold in tiny numbers within a year of release. Not enough demand, not when petrols getting over $1.50 with it likely to get higher over time. A V8 would be cool but for the same reasons it won't work.

A V8 diesel would be better but wouldn't happen.

[Road_Warrior]

They could do an XR6-style Terri, but I'd pass on using another type of engine (just adds more costs), make it more cosmetic than performance because at the end of the day its an SUV and they arent performance cars.

Also an LTD Terri. The upper-lux SUV segment is very lucrative.

Both of these shouldnt cost too much to do as the items needed are basically parts bin type stuff - there's no engineering or whatever that needs to be done.

[TMC]

People who buy turbos and V8's don't care about fuel consumption. Those people do exist and at present will buy something like the 408kW Turbo V8 BMW X5. How many on this forum have Turbo Territory's? Heaps. All the other manufacturers make high HP SUV's. They're special and they carry high price tags, but people who buy them don't care about fuel consumption.

A fuel conscious Territory buyer would buy the 2.7 diesel or the 2WD petrol with LPi.

If the Turbo was using LPi the bad fuel economy thing goes out the window too.

[imugli]

My money is on Focus and Ranger both selling in higher numbers than Falcon and Territory this year.

[Cobalt Blue]

The "LTD Territory" might be a good opportunity to introduce the Lincoln name to Australia. Being at this high level, the SC 5.0l V8 would not be out of place. I see plenty of BMW X5 V8s around. Or perhaps the defunct 3.6l turbo diesel V8 that Range Rover had, although I have no idea of any contractual impediments there. You'd think under Mullaly's Ford that we would see Lincoln one day in Australia.

[davenl5l]

a manual box would be good not everybody wants auto

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Forget I6 Turbo or V8, they tried the turbo and it didn't work, they were guzzlers and sold in tiny numbers within a year of release. Not enough demand, not when petrols getting over $1.50 with it likely to get higher over time. A V8 would be cool but for the same reasons it won't work.

A V8 diesel would be better but wouldn't happen.

Twin Turbo 3.0 V6 diesel used in Jaguar XF, it's top shelf caviar I'll admit but much more in keeping with Tezza's image

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

As the title says, will Territory become Fords No1 local car, taking over from Falcon, cause it seems like it's heading that way. Its seems likely the Territory will take over from Falcon in sales this year, it has strong order books where Falcon has none. Ford have increased Territory builds to near 1 to 1 with Falcon, but is it time Ford changed that and started building more Territorys than Falcon and started to concentrate more on the Territory than Falcon?

I've heard rumours they may be looking at LPi Territory again, not sure how true that is but I think anything that Ford can do to increase Territory sales can go some way to compensating for lower Falcon sales they are now achieving. It works out better in a way because Territory is Fords cash cow, it sells in much higher numbers to private buyers and most of the sales go to the more expensive TS and Titanium, and most are diesel, which with the high aussie dollar makes that $3250 diesel price premium more profitable now than what it was when released.

The SUV market is solid, it continues to grow, Ford can rely on sales staying at or rising above current levels due to the popularity of SUV's, something they can't rely on with large cars, which continue to fall. I think now is the time to make the switch.

I think adding a few extra models to the range would be a good step, I don't think they'd do an XR version but how about a Territory Sport. Mesh grilles like XR, maybe some small side skirts and a front bumper lip, lower firmer suspension and 19's as standard. XR style seats and instrument cluster. I6 or 3 litre diesel as an option, to keep costs down use the 180kw 500nm Land Rover version, it would go pretty well. Either RWD petrol or RWD/AWD for diesel. Might be expensive to engineer the 3 litre but I don't think the 2.7 cuts the mustard in a sports application. Maybe try to position it between TS and Titanium.

And maybe go above Titanium with a Titanium LTD, they looked at doing an LTD version back in 2004, to tap into the growing luxury SUV market. Fit some more chrome, maybe make the chrome grille bars solid chrome like Explorer, fit some quality Howe leather like they used to fit to LTD, maybe splash some more of it around the cabin to the handbrake lever, door trims etc, a branded upgraded audio, well above premium sound, powered tailgate and some other gadgets.

Thoughts?

I actually like all the ideas you have mentioned. Particularly of the LPi Territory (which they could if they used modular tanks - which the current supplier for the LPi Falcon can supply), plus an XR sports Territory. It doesn't have to be all out sports. Just add the stuff you mentioned.

Increasing the build rate of Territory to more than Falcon absolutely has merit. The average transaction price for Territory is well above that of the Falcon. If they need volume through the engine plant, then LPi Territory is also needed.

The 3L TDV6 won't fit in the engine bay IIRC. The best way to get a diesel 'sport / XR' version out of it, is to retain the 2.7 TDV6 and fit a better intercooler and raise the boost a bit. The aftermarket tuners can take it from 140kW/440Nm to 170kW/520Nm. If Ford got it somewhere about half way, ie 155kW/480Nm it would be nice jigger

Whilst they are at it, fit the 2.7 TDV6 to the Falcon Ute and Sedan.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by phillyc

The 3L TDV6 won't fit in the engine bay IIRC. The best way to get a diesel 'sport / XR' version out of it, is to retain the 2.7 TDV6 and fit a better intercooler and raise the boost a bit. The aftermarket tuners can take it from 140kW/440Nm to 170kW/520Nm. If Ford got it somewhere about half way, ie 155kW/480Nm it would be nice jigger

Previous model XF Jag used a twin turbo version of the 2.7 V6 diesel, since J/LR
have moved on to the 3.0, I wonder of the old 2.7 TT engine is available to FoA...

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

They could do an XR6-style Terri, but I'd pass on using another type of engine (just adds more costs), make it more cosmetic than performance because at the end of the day its an SUV and they arent performance cars.

Also an LTD Terri. The upper-lux SUV segment is very lucrative.

Both of these shouldnt cost too much to do as the items needed are basically parts bin type stuff - there's no engineering or whatever that needs to be done.

Your whole post makes lots of sense to me.

[jpd80]

The 2.7 V6 Ecoboost is on the horizon, offering plenty of horsepower and torque,
how does 240 Kw and 480 nm sound with around 10 or 11 l/100 km?
It's the balance of power, torque and fuel economy that's important.

[Nic85]

Just one small problem, where are Ford going to get the money to do all this, and where is the business case for them doing so? It would mean they would need to sell a hell of a lot more Territory's to justify more models in the range.

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Previous model XF Jag used a twin turbo version of the 2.7 V6 diesel, since J/LR
have moved on to the 3.0, I wonder of the old 2.7 TT engine is available to FoA...

Yes, well it has 152kW/435Nm in TT form. Apparently very good throttle response too. I still think a better intercooler might be the best way to go.

[Elks]

I went out with a mate in his new 2.7d TX today. smooth quiet impressive car.

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by Nic85

Just one small problem, where are Ford going to get the money to do all this, and where is the business case for them doing so? It would mean they would need to sell a hell of a lot more Territory's to justify more models in the range.

Territory was the NUMBER 1 selling SUV in Australia in 2011. That was even after a mid year launch and low sale runout.

It was regularly racking up 1400-1700 sales a month. Why not FEED the cash cow. Maybe Ford know they missed opportunities from the 2004 original model launch and want to INVEST in the brand by expanding it?!

Right now most sales are TS and Titanium TDi. Plenty of profit. Why not offer something in the middle of those with different appeal.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Nic85

Just one small problem, where are Ford going to get the money to do all this, and where is the business case for them doing so? It would mean they would need to sell a hell of a lot more Territory's to justify more models in the range.

Higher transaction price of Territory coupled to improving sales means that it has a much better chance of funding increases over Falcon.

Most Falcons now sell at $36,990 drive away, Most territory sell above $43,000, that's the big difference.....

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by TMC

People who buy turbos and V8's don't care about fuel consumption. Those people do exist and at present will buy something like the 408kW Turbo V8 BMW X5. How many on this forum have Turbo Territory's? Heaps. All the other manufacturers make high HP SUV's. They're special and they carry high price tags, but people who buy them don't care about fuel consumption.

A fuel conscious Territory buyer would buy the 2.7 diesel or the 2WD petrol with LPi.

If the Turbo was using LPi the bad fuel economy thing goes out the window too.

You can't compare someone who pays 60k for a Territory against someone who pays over 140k for a BMW, as the cheapest V8 X5 cost over that, the guy who pays 60k is less likely to not be bothered by fuel costs. Its a mute point anyway as most X5's are diesel now, very few are V8's. As I said earlier the Turbo Territory sold in double figures per month, it was that low, thats why the canned it. It was a dissapointment to Ford in terms of sales, it got nowhere near their sales projections for it.

Originally Posted by davenl5l

a manual box would be good not everybody wants auto

Forget it, it wouldn't even sell in double figures.

Originally Posted by jpd80

Twin Turbo 3.0 V6 diesel used in Jaguar XF, it's top shelf caviar I'll admit but much more in keeping with Tezza's image

The top shelf version is 202kw and 600nm. It would be awesome in Territory, but we can only dream. Diesel definately serves a better purpose in an SUV.

Originally Posted by jpd80

Previous model XF Jag used a twin turbo version of the 2.7 V6 diesel, since J/LR
have moved on to the 3.0, I wonder of the old 2.7 TT engine is available to FoA...

From memory the twin turbo 2.7 only made about 10kw and 10nm more than the single turbo version, doesn't work out to well on a cost Vs kw argument.

I wonder how long the 2.7 stays in production, hopefully not too long so Ford are forced to make the switch to the 3 litre.

[turbodewd]

They absolutely should bring out a sporty Territory. Let it have the wilder XR colors and sport it up somewhat. Sporty wheels, bigger ones. Plenty of people love to bling up their SUVs.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I wonder how long the 2.7 stays in production, hopefully not too long so Ford are forced to make the switch to the 3 litre.

Ford should tool up the Geelong plant to make the 2.7/3.0 (same engine family) and introduce it as a replacement for the I6.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by turbodewd

They absolutely should bring out a sporty Territory. Let it have the wilder XR colors and sport it up somewhat. Sporty wheels, bigger ones. Plenty of people love to bling up their SUVs.

Thats one area Ford are lagging behind, the others are optioning up to 20 inch wheels, like CX9 for example. Even the Kluger has 19's FFS

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

From memory the twin turbo 2.7 only made about 10kw and 10nm more than the single turbo version, doesn't work out to well on a cost Vs kw argument.

I wonder how long the 2.7 stays in production, hopefully not too long so Ford are forced to make the switch to the 3 litre.

The 3.0 is the same block with enlarged capacity, better injectors and breething,
Land Rover already has a single turbo version.

What I was thinking was 2.7 TT with the 3.0's upgraded injectors and intercooler..

[Brazen]

Titanium Limited is easy, just add side steps, sunroof, howe leather, Bose stereo, LED daytime lamps, woodgrain trim, chrome door handles. Sell for an extra 5 grand over Titanium and no extra engineering costs.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Ford should tool up the Geelong plant to make the 2.7/3.0 (same engine family) and introduce it as a replacement for the I6.

Few problems with that, one being no capacity to do CGI in the casting plant, and the assembly line is setup for an inline engine. The whole thing would have to be ripped out and replaced to do a V engine. An inline 4 TD would be an easier choice.

And the fact that the current TDV6's are already built in the Ford plant in Dagenham, and then onsold to LR, Jaguar and Peugeot.

Would be a good idea though.

[jpd80]

I thought the 2.7 had an alloy block....that's why it's only 440 lbs and one of the lightest V6 diesels readily available

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Nic85

Just one small problem, where are Ford going to get the money to do all this, and where is the business case for them doing so? It would mean they would need to sell a hell of a lot more Territory's to justify more models in the range.

Most of it could be done very cheaply if they kept carry over engines.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I thought the 2.7 had an alloy block....

Its CGI, compacted graphite iron, stronger than cast iron yet lighter, and cheaper than alloy.

One of the reasons why the 2.7 V6 is only 1kg heavier than I6. Diesels are usually way heavier than petrol engines.