Newspaper Article : GTHO PhaseIV Killed Off

[pursuit57]

Today's Sydney Morning Herald - Drive liftout pages 6,7 & 9.
Also on smh.com.au - go to drive.
Good reading for those younger members in Forum who don't know the background of that sad day...also has a few lines on the GTHO Phase III (current ?) $,000's etc.

[Dave3911]

http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-featur...622-20sfx.html

[F6 Dan]

Excellent reading pity they were killed off i wouldn't mind one in my shed !!!

[Bossxr8]

He was right when he said Fords reaction was dumb, from my understanding the minister said many years later that if Ford had of spoken to him, talked him around and explained to him what they were doing in a calm and rational matter it would have been allowed to continue with what it was doing, but by going off their nut at them they essentially dug their own grave with it.

[CustomG6ET]

God i would have loved to be a fly on the wall in the meeting between Holden and the minister of transport im sure that would of been interesting

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

He was right when he said Fords reaction was dumb, from my understanding the minister said many years later that if Ford had of spoken to him, talked him around and explained to him what they were doing in a calm and rational matter it would have been allowed to continue with what it was doing, but by going off their nut at them they essentially dug their own grave with it.

I disagree. Some of the comments posted to that article give a bit more of an insight to it, some very good points are made.

[Ford Falcon XR6]

Great article what a great era. Shame the fun police had to crash the party although i do agree that it was nesserey

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

I disagree. Some of the comments posted to that article give a bit more of an insight to it, some very good points are made.

The reaction from Ford, with cars on the production line, was hostile. I had to hold the phone at arm’s length when the company’s Sydney PR man, Max Ward, called. It was a dumb response.

Holden was a lot smarter and, I suspect, had an ulterior motive. It had a good relationship with Morris and sought a meeting with the minister. The company did not seem too unhappy at the prospect of Confederation of Australian Motor Sports (CAMS) rules being changed.

Remember, Ford had won the past two Bathursts and had ‘‘the fastest four-door in the history of the world’’ in the wings (as it transpired, Peter Brock won the next Bathurst in a Torana XU-1). If Ford had sought the minister’s ear – he was a good listener – who knows how the supercar saga might have played out?





That pretty much covers what I said, that the minister could have been talked around, which basically backs up what I said earlier about comments made by the minister years later that if Ford had of just talked to him and not given them a spray it may have been a very different outcome. I can't see why you disagree with that?

[jpd80]

Phase iV was never going to be either mass produced or available to ordinary people,
the $5,300 price tag is equivalent to today's GT Falcon or maybe a bit higher..

IMO, two influential people dribbling on created a storm when the whole thing was under control.
CAMS was already looking at Group C racing anyway so one year or so of Phase IV wouldn't have mattered.

[Burnout]

Funnily enough Milton Morris and I had a run in in Bridge Street Sydney one Friday night...... he had run up the bum of the car in front.
He drove a Morris 1100. A British Leyland slug that couldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding.

[wrongwaynorris]

" The question remains: Was the death of the supercar good policy or just good politics? The racing fraternity and motoring scribes attributed it to the latter. Green and I were mongrels first-class."

It was neither and you and that Vermin Green are still mongrels .

[mike_nofx]

Wasnt alive during the supercar scare, but I'll comment anyway.

IMO The phase 3 and/or 4 was probably about as powerful or fast as any car back then was going to get, So to get quicker lap times in the following models (phase 5 or 6?) they would be spending more time and effort on things like brakes and handling.

In other words, horsepower will only get you so far until you just can't slow down or corner the damn thing, a limit which phase 3 definitely reached.

So possibly the supercar scare slowed down development of suspension and braking more than all out speed and power?

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by mike_nofx

Wasnt alive during the supercar scare, but I'll comment anyway.

IMO The phase 3 and/or 4 was probably about as powerful or fast as any car back then was going to get, So to get quicker lap times in the following models (phase 5 or 6?) they would be spending more time and effort on things like brakes and handling.

In other words, horsepower will only get you so far until you just can't slow down or corner the damn thing, a limit which phase 3 definitely reached.

So possibly the supercar scare slowed down development of suspension and braking more than all out speed and power?

The big problems that came out of early group C racing was tyres but when they got sticky rubber,
oil surge became a problem......so you see that one cure actually caused something else to become a limiting factor.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

That pretty much covers what I said, that the minister could have been talked around, which basically backs up what I said earlier about comments made by the minister years later that if Ford had of just talked to him and not given them a spray it may have been a very different outcome. I can't see why you disagree with that?

All well and good to come out years later with a defence to criticism and the benefit of hindsight and say "they could have done this, they could have done that", however this is all after the fact when all the damaging comments and actions had been done. For all his commentary about how much "smarter" Holden were, the end result was exactly the same.

You could turn the writer's assertion around the other way (when he claims Ford should have approached the Minister and the Minister might have/could have been receptive) and ask: when the Minister found out about these 'super cars', why did his office not approach the manufacturers directly and say "I'm concerned about these cars". That is the expectation of a government Minister today and the stakeholders in his portfolios, for a very good reason.

Truth is, we will probably never know the FULL story behind it because the chances of Ford talking about it are pretty much nil.

[chevypower]

Obama's idol!

[H.G]

put a red cape on the rear wing.... problem solved.. your very own super car..

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

All well and good to come out years later with a defence to criticism and the benefit of hindsight and say "they could have done this, they could have done that", however this is all after the fact when all the damaging comments and actions had been done. For all his commentary about how much "smarter" Holden were, the end result was exactly the same.

You could turn the writer's assertion around the other way (when he claims Ford should have approached the Minister and the Minister might have/could have been receptive) and ask: when the Minister found out about these 'super cars', why did his office not approach the manufacturers directly and say "I'm concerned about these cars". That is the expectation of a government Minister today and the stakeholders in his portfolios, for a very good reason.

Truth is, we will probably never know the FULL story behind it because the chances of Ford talking about it are pretty much nil.

The problem at the time was Evan's negative comments on Holden's XU1 V8 plans,
while Ford could argue that the GTHO was an evolution of an established marque,
the spectre of a smaller car with a powerful V8 was what really lit a fuse under the minister.
That was why Holden made the approach, not Ford.

[Nikked]

Meh, in the end, Ford still slipped out special options for homologation and holden released a v8 torana...

And now we have a supercharged V8 GT...


So really, in the end, nothing happend...

[CustomG6ET]

i was thinking about this last night. The XA GTHO Phase 4 was about 300 Kw and the new GT is 335 Kw does anyone think the actions of that period put Australian cars back nearly 40 years

[Nikked]

lol...no



Emisson laws and fuel prices had more to do with a performance black hole in the late 70's early 80's.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Meh, in the end, Ford still slipped out special options for homologation and holden released a v8 torana...

And now we have a supercharged V8 GT...


So really, in the end, nothing happend...

That's right, CAMS had already announced changes for 1973, making supercars unnecessary.
Didn't hurt Moffat in 1973, he won the touring car championship and took out Bathurst

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

All well and good to come out years later with a defence to criticism and the benefit of hindsight and say "they could have done this, they could have done that", however this is all after the fact when all the damaging comments and actions had been done. For all his commentary about how much "smarter" Holden were, the end result was exactly the same.

You could turn the writer's assertion around the other way (when he claims Ford should have approached the Minister and the Minister might have/could have been receptive) and ask: when the Minister found out about these 'super cars', why did his office not approach the manufacturers directly and say "I'm concerned about these cars". That is the expectation of a government Minister today and the stakeholders in his portfolios, for a very good reason.

Truth is, we will probably never know the FULL story behind it because the chances of Ford talking about it are pretty much nil.

At the end of the day it just bought forward the inevitable anyway, emissions would have killed it off anyway, and Ford got over blowing so much dough on racing within a few years anyway, and dropped the GT cause buyers were finding it too hard to get them insurered, so that kept buyers away too.

Not to mention that the HO's lost them money on everyone sold. But I still wish the Ph4 had made production and the Ph5 XB GT Coupe had of followed, just imagine how good that would have been. It would have the icon status the PhIII now has plus a whole lot more.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Not to mention that the HO's lost them money on everyone sold. But I still wish the Ph4 had made production and the Ph5 XB GT Coupe had of followed, just imagine how good that would have been. It would have the icon status the PhIII now has plus a whole lot more.

Yes/no...


Look what happened to the GT350 in '69...much watered down from the original intention of it.


I think in a way, the Phase story is perfect how it is, shaker rumbleing out the bonnet...super roo stripes...

[Bossxr8]

I don't think they would have watered it down because they needed to improve it for Bathurst every year.

But in saying that they would have reached a point where they would have said enoughs enough.

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by CustomXR6

i was thinking about this last night. The XA GTHO Phase 4 was about 300 Kw and the new GT is 335 Kw does anyone think the actions of that period put Australian cars back nearly 40 years

I think so. It wasn't until the Barra straight-six turbo in 2002 that the performance Chrysler Hemi 6 was finally matched. Like Ford, Chrysler had a better Charger ready to go. That's 40 years!

[Nikked]

Don't forget that in America, the 70's was a non-event also for performance cars, due to emissions, fuel price, change of focus from manufacturers and racing category regs.


It would be hard to say the cars were "put back 40 years"...a XD 351 with could still crack high 15 second 1/4's...

[gcg2503]

Only one plated Phase 4 as far as I am concerned.

The other 3 don't gave compliance plates with a H under Engine Code.

[Moby Vic]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Don't forget that in America, the 70's was a non-event also for performance cars, due to emissions, fuel price, change of focus from manufacturers and racing category regs.


It would be hard to say the cars were "put back 40 years"...a XD 351 with could still crack high 15 second 1/4's...

Ford canceled its factory racing efforts in the US after 1970. It was devastating for all long-time Ford racers, team owners, and engine builders.

Ford didn't get back into racing in the US again until around 1984.

[2011G6E]

Ah yes, what might have been...the 340 Charger (not just an engine option, a properly modified one), the "Old Man Emu" big block Monaro, the Phase IV GTHO, the full-house V8 Torana (not the "LJ XU1 V8"...no such thing was planned seriously by the factory apparently after making a couple of prototypes, the first official V8 Torana was always going to be the LH and there were photos of an LH with "XU2" in prototype form shown some years back)



All these things lost because of mindless bureaucrats and gutless factories.

Then again...when you think about it...tyres weren't exactly the greatest back then, brakes weren't that flash either. I remember driving my mates XY GT and being amazed at the brakes...and not in a good way. My 265 Hemi four speed VH Charger didn't even have power assisted brakes, but at least they were discs on the front. It was putting close to 300hp down through "fat" 195/14 tyres on mags...factory they would have been less. XU1 Toranas were lead tipped arrows...

Maybe it was a good idea that the factories saved their reputations by not building overly powerful cars at a time when brakes and tyre and suspension technology just wasn't up to it...

[pottery beige]

knocked together an LJ V8 as a 17yo hooligan would.. scary fast.. still to this day one of the genuine scary cars ive owned....