FPV vs HSV sales

scottyg938 · 03-10-2012, 09:56 PM

I know it would have been discussed before but...

Why do you think HSV seem to easily outsell FPV?

We all know that FPV have a MUCH better engine than anything holden/HSV have to offer.

I can't really comment on the interior of the current model HSV's as I've not had a real look at them.

I personally think it's because of the more wild styling of the HSV's, in my opinion the FPV's look too similar to an entry level falcon.
Driving behind a current shape HSV you know it's not a base model commodore with a spoiler thrown onto it by the nice looking LED tail lights.

I don't think they are selling more just 'because HSV'
yes holden have their die hard fans that wouldn't consider buying anything else, but so do ford so that can't really be used as an excuse.

Kable72 · 03-10-2012, 10:10 PM

It's because apparently everything Ford does sucks and even Fords 'loyal' fans won't buy anything Ford makes because everything Ford does sucks.

Brazen · 03-10-2012, 10:18 PM

HSV spent a lot of time building their brand, they got rid of brand-killers like the Manta which was a constant reminder of the Commodore roots. They also got adventurous with the styling so as to not compete with the Holden range. They also brought out hero cars like the W427. Branding is the big advantage they have.

HSV are also very fortunate that there is a progression in the Holden lineup with reasonably priced V8s, that leads buyers over time to eventually buy a HSV. Those guys buying 90 grand GTS were at one stage buying 35 grand SS UTES. With FPV, you have to kind of start at the 55 grand mark and so the challenge is attract those first-time buyers.

csv8 · 03-10-2012, 10:20 PM

scottyg938 you are right "I personally think it's because of the more wild styling of the HSV's, in my opinion the FPV's look too similar to an entry level falcon.
Driving behind a current shape HSV you know it's not a base model commodore with a spoiler thrown onto it by the nice looking LED tail lights."

FPV 's are too bland..raccoon eyes are uncool...

BaraFGXR6 · 03-10-2012, 10:21 PM

Look at the two models that sell the most.

R8 feels like a "HSV"

GS feels like a XR with a sticker kit...

F6 is not a V8 (hard stigma to break with Australians)

It really isnt that hard to see why. If you were to get Joe Bloggs off the street and take him into to see the 2 cars, 9 times out of 10 he will pick the HSV simply because it has more gizmos and visual appeal. Joe rarely cares about the quarter mile or brand alliance. He simple cares that it goes good, sounds good, and looks the part.

My .2c

**Polyal** · 03-10-2012, 10:24 PM

Loyalty through continuously giving their market what they want, not chopping and changing the philosophy and naming of their brand and a more integrated approach with ties to the parent company that gives them freedom to add little extra's that do make a difference...not much

Nikked · 03-10-2012, 10:27 PM

Remember when TVE was all about refinement, rather then outright power?

HSV are at that point, the cars are plenty powerful enough for most, so FPV having an advantage is not a big point, HSV offer in other areas. HSV offer a more complete package, with a larger difference over the commodore models.

What some see is confused, ugly styling, others see as aggressive, and muscular.

**Dave R** · 03-10-2012, 10:35 PM

- Better heritage, the HSV brand is something FPV will never be truly on par with.
- Larger fanbase (over-40s particularly), related to the point above.
- Larger range (sedan, ute, wagon, LWB) - this point is often overlooked.

That's how I see it.

scottyg938 · 03-10-2012, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

- Better heritage, the HSV brand is something FPV will never be truly on par with.
- Larger fanbase (over-40s particularly), related to the point above.
- Larger range (sedan, ute, wagon, LWB) - this point is often overlooked.

That's how I see it.

I get what you mean by the fanbase/heritage and it would surely help with their fanbase having a lot more over 40's as thats around the age when most people have made it in life and can afford to blow a large chunk of money on a toy.

although I'm not so sure about the larger range side of things, yes FPV only have the sedan and utes but (at least from what I see in canberra anyway) HSV don't actually seem to sell all that many LWB's or wagons anyway (I could be wrong, I've not looked into the figures at all)

Brazen · 03-10-2012, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottyg938

I get what you mean by the fanbase/heritage and it would surely help with their fanbase having a lot more over 40's as thats around the age when most people have made it in life and can afford to blow a large chunk of money on a toy.

although I'm not so sure about the larger range side of things, yes FPV only have the sedan and utes but (at least from what I see in canberra anyway) HSV don't actually seem to sell all that many LWB's or wagons anyway (I could be wrong, I've not looked into the figures at all)

I personally think that range is very under appreciated. A wide range can accomplish three things:

1 attract new buyers to your brand.
2 keep buyers in your fold- once you lose a customer it is very hard to get them back.
Or 3, get people in the showroom even if they leave with something else.

Examples:

1. Buyer doesn't want a sedan, sees a HSV Tourer, sold.

2. Consider many people lease cars or keep cars for a few years, often people don't want to trade in to a vehicle that they already have - a 2010 Clubsport owner won't feel like another identical looking Clubsport, however they may have noticed a Tourer wagon or LWB Grange - all of a sudden HSV can offer something different to what he currently drives rather than the buyer having to wander over to a FPV dealer and perhaps losing them forever. It might be the only Tourer he will ever buy and next time he will be back in a VF Clubsport, but that Tourer kept him in the fold.

3. Buyer sees a Grange, loves it, dreams about it. Goes to a HSV dealer baulks at the $90,000 price and is shown a $60,000 Clubsport. He takes it for a drive, loves the car and the price. Signs on the dotted line and leaves that day. That Grange may not show up on VFACTS, but the Clubsport will.

A wide range may be a lot more valuable than the sales figures suggest. Just ask Toyota with the widest range of vehicles for sale on the market.

flappist · 03-10-2012, 11:16 PM

Interesting posts with two things in common.

Nothing good to say about FPV.
Never bought an FPV.

Maybe if the internet was not so full of alleged "Ford Fans" who constantly berate all Ford product on fora or other social media then some who are just researching a possible purchase may not be put off.........

scottyg938 · 03-10-2012, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Interesting posts with two things in common.

Nothing good to say about FPV.
Never bought an FPV.

Maybe if the internet was not so full of alleged "Ford Fans" who constantly berate all Ford product on fora or other social media then some who are just researching a possible purchase may not be put off.........

You turn to this every single time something like this comes up... Just because we've not bought an FPV does that mean we aren't entitled to an opinion on a forum?
Do you see all threads like this as Ford/FPV bashing?

The only 'bad' thing that's been said about FPV here is that in comparison to HSV their styling in rather bland and too similar to a base falcon

robrex · 03-10-2012, 11:28 PM

I think FPV have done a lot of work trying to build their brand in the new car showroom but the moment you drive out the door you have to deal with crap after sales service. Add to this the fact that the dealers pay nothing for a trade it doesn't really create much loyalty aside from what we grew up favoring.
I guess the same could be said for HSV although I've never owned one but I have a mate who drives a Lexus and that is a company who value their customers AFTER they have handed over the cash. It's rare when you receive good 'customer' service at Ford unfortunately. That's a culture in the business that would need a massive shake up to change and I doubt that will happen because the guys who run the show only consider new car sales numbers...

XP6 · 03-10-2012, 11:31 PM

Around these parts I'd see 4 FPV's to every HSV... plenty of country GT fans about.
Kadina car show... cant remembers seeing much HSV if they were they couldnt been seen for the GT's/XR's stacked 10 deep!

xisled · 03-10-2012, 11:35 PM

IMO it is all about the brand and trust. HSV has been going at it for 20 plus years, people trust and know when you have a HSV it is a big V8, looks good, fast and tough.

On the other hand FPV is the baby that has been around for just over 10 years, most people when they think V8 think HSV, not FPV.

not many people would know a difference between a XT and a GT. ask the same person to look at a GTS and an Omega they know straight away it is a HSV

scottyg938 · 03-10-2012, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XP6

Around these parts I'd see 4 FPV's to every HSV... plenty of country GT fans about.
Kadina car show... cant remembers seeing much HSV if they were they couldnt been seen for the GT's/XR's stacked 10 deep!

That's interesting.
In Canberra I would be very lucky to see 1 FPV a week, meanwhile I tend to see about 3/4 HSV's per night and most of those being maloo's

**Elks** · 03-10-2012, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Interesting posts with two things in common.

Nothing good to say about FPV.
Never bought an FPV.

..

I have a Tickford and an FPV. Brilliant cars for there time. Cash up front

I'd encourage anyone with the budget to buy either of these over a HSV.

My 2c

ZH For Me · 03-10-2012, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

- Better heritage, the HSV brand is something FPV will never be truly on par with.
- Larger fanbase (over-40s particularly), related to the point above.
- Larger range (sedan, ute, wagon, LWB) - this point is often overlooked.

That's how I see it.

The range factor is an excellent point, and as you mentioned, its usually not touched on in these sorts of discussions. While most of the HSV sales would undoubtedly be the sedan and ute sectors, the fact that HSV buyers have the option of purchasing a wagon and a LWB (Something that is absent completely from the entire Ford/FPV Falcon range) would be another incentive to lure buyers. The styling, love it or hate it, undeniably sets it apart from the Commodore range as well, whereas less trained eyes may find it difficult to differentiate the FPV range from its Falcon brethren at a glance. While I like the current FPV styling, I'm under no illusions that it is everyone's cup of tea, and quite a few buyers who are willing to spend the money want their car to stand out without question from the bread-and-butter models.

Heritage is another great point. HSV has a reputation (Whether founded or imaginary) of buying good cars. Not to say that FPV doesn't build good cars, but HSV has the background to cement their place in the sector.

Advertising plays a part as well. I've seen quite a few HSV advertisements, but I don't recall seeing any for FPV lately. Does anyone know if they've even advertised the S/C 5 litre? Coverage in magazines such as Wheels doesn't really help FPV gain any momentum over the HSV offerings either.

Smoke Pursuit · 03-10-2012, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csv8

scottyg938 you are right "I personally think it's because of the more wild styling of the HSV's, in my opinion the FPV's look too similar to an entry level falcon.
Driving behind a current shape HSV you know it's not a base model commodore with a spoiler thrown onto it by the nice looking LED tail lights."

FPV 's are too bland..raccoon eyes are uncool...

Why did you buy a dated BFII Fairmont Ghia over a much newer VE Calais V...

I am tired of reading the same thing from you. Time you found a new hobby.

SpoolMan · 03-10-2012, 11:50 PM

Talking about heritage not sure about the age of users here, the ''GT'' is no:1 when talking heritage and Aussie vehicles in the same sentence.

xisled · 03-10-2012, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpoolMan

Talking about heritage not sure about the age of users here, the ''GT'' is no:1 when talking heritage and Aussie vehicles in the same sentence.

Yes GT is got more heritage but not everyone knows what an FPV is. They think GT they think Ford not FPV,

scottyg938 · 03-10-2012, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpoolMan

Talking about heritage not sure about the age of users here, the ''GT'' is no:1 when talking heritage and Aussie vehicles in the same sentence.

This is true, the GT badge has more heritage than anything HSV will ever have, although in the modern day HSV vs FPV battle - HSV has been around twice as long and been able to build a name for themselves in that time (not at all saying that FPV haven't made a name for themselves too)

99AUXR · 04-10-2012, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpoolMan

Talking about heritage not sure about the age of users here, the ''GT'' is no:1 when talking heritage and Aussie vehicles in the same sentence.

Definitely in Hero car terms FPV may have heritage but HSV is a far older company than FPV, so it should be expected that HSV has a larger client base. Especially trying to contest for such a niche market.

zoomie · 04-10-2012, 01:44 AM

I have a couple of mates that have E2/E3 hsv's and all of them still have the smarts to give credit where credits due.
They simply cant get over how good the old "boat anchor" 4L turbo in the F6 is and also how good the 5L S/C engine is but they are holden/HSV fans so will never ever "own" a Ford/FPV....
Its funny though cos when its time to do a boys weekend away they all want to go in my F6...

pottery beige · 04-10-2012, 01:54 AM

holden dudes have always outnumbered ford dudes since forever i can remember.....

i blame P Brock...

Buntz · 04-10-2012, 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pottery beige

holden dudes have always outnumbered ford dudes since forever i can remember.....

i blame P Brock...

I blame Australia's education system for greater HSV sales over FPV.

P6LTD351 · 04-10-2012, 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pottery beige

holden dudes have always outnumbered ford dudes since forever i can remember.....

i blame P Brock...

I also blame a decision that occurred in 1982. Have never fully recovered from that one.

1TUFFUTE · 04-10-2012, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottyg938

I know it would have been discussed before but...

Why do you think HSV seem to easily outsell FPV?

We all know that FPV have a MUCH better engine than anything holden/HSV have to offer.

I can't really comment on the interior of the current model HSV's as I've not had a real look at them.

I personally think it's because of the more wild styling of the HSV's, in my opinion the FPV's look too similar to an entry level falcon.
Driving behind a current shape HSV you know it's not a base model commodore with a spoiler thrown onto it by the nice looking LED tail lights.

I don't think they are selling more just 'because HSV'
yes holden have their die hard fans that wouldn't consider buying anything else, but so do ford so that can't really be used as an excuse.

im not even going to read this thread thru...your wrong...it is holden loyalty that accounts for probably near all of their sales....you want to know why? Look at how the commadore sells....the colarado(OMG horrible car)...the cruze...do i need to go on. Every single car holden makes in aus is by far not the best in class(except ill give you hsv maybe)(but not now with the r spec GT tho) They sell acceptable cars to holden faithfulls and word of mouths with a bigger advertisement budget...thats how

**Dave R** · 04-10-2012, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpoolMan

Talking about heritage not sure about the age of users here, the ''GT'' is no:1 when talking heritage and Aussie vehicles in the same sentence.

Ford Falcon GT, absolutely. The FPV brand, however, has nowhere near the heritage of HSV. People often point out that their mates/family don't even know what an FPV is. You would have a hard time finding someone who doesn't know what HSV is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Nothing good to say about FPV.
Never bought an FPV.

They really go hand in hand, don't they

pottery beige · 04-10-2012, 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

Ford Falcon GT, absolutely. The FPV brand, however, has nowhere near the heritage of HSV. People often point out that their mates/family don't even know what an FPV is. You would have a hard time finding someone who doesn't know what HSV is.

but everyone at work has an uncle bob that owned the real purple P4...