Focus ST beats Toyota 86 GTS

Fiesta_Man69 · 13-10-2012, 08:38 AM

Another great review for the ST in today's Carsguide. Article by Stuart Martin.

The ST gets a great write up: "The ST ticks all the right boxes. You just have to shift for yourself."

A few pages later it goes head to head against the 86 which it beats.
It is rated superior in the "driving" department, "the 86 is not a scorcher in a straight line" the Focus has "bags of grip" with "well weighted steering and bags of grunt."

Another great positive review for the new Focus. Again appearing in Australias biggest selling paper which again should boost sales... won't be long before it goes past the Daewoo Cruze... (I'd love to see a comparison between the ST and the Walkinshaw Cruze -$50K worth - and a 0-100 tine of 9.5 secs lol... It would be a bloodbath).

Also: considering it beat the 86 in this comparison and Wheels rated the 86 better than the Cayman, Ford fans can now state that the ST is better than a new Porsche..... lol... hey - it's good for a giggle for Ford fans.

malazn mafia · 13-10-2012, 08:21 PM

How'd the Hyundai veloster do? it would have probably outsold the st and the 86. There are simply too many around these days

Dave R · 13-10-2012, 08:32 PM

Funny how many people only seem to agree with Carsguide/Carsales/Drive etc when the verdict goes their way. In all other instances they are deemed worthless biased publications. Just putting that out there, because I'm sure they are losing their minds over on the Toyota forums

Good for the Focus though, I'm sure many 86 fanboys will be crying foul upon reading it, they've been brainwashed with the 86>everything propaganda for a while now.

**DJM83** · 13-10-2012, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

How'd the Hyundai veloster do? it would have probably outsold the st and the 86. There are simply too many around these days

The new ST has been around for 5 minutes compared to the Veloster.

I reckon the new ST will be a game changer for Ford then its little brother Fiesta ST will come along later, 2 pronged attack.

Then hopefully a new Fiesta or Focus RS.

Fiesta_Man69 · 13-10-2012, 08:58 PM

I wish Aus got the full ST Focus range as the Poms get - it starts at £21K and goes thru to a fully loaded £26K.... The base model would be $31K driveaway.... Food for thought.

In performance terms the ST murders the turbo veloster...

And apparently there's plenty of headroom for a stonking 350hp RS... Mmmm

**DJM83** · 13-10-2012, 09:14 PM

The new ST is much better equipped compared to the last one. Have you seen an ST1? Not all that appealing on the inside to be honest. I think we got a good spec, its basically an ST2 with some ST3 features like Xenons.

mike_nofx · 13-10-2012, 09:44 PM

There is one big box it doesn't tick... RWD

MAGPIE · 13-10-2012, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike_nofx

There is one big box it doesn't tick... RWD

Always one

Cam · 13-10-2012, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAGPIE

Always one

Maybe so, but there's plenty of "fanboys" as mentioned above whom RWD is more important in a so called sports car.. I would prefer the slower 86 then the ST (which I do love) because the 86 would be more fun to drive.. But real world it would be a daily, and I cant put kids in an 86...

It's slightly different target markets here..So comparing fwd and rwd is pointless as it depends on intended use as well as preference.. But all round the ST is certainly a killer package! Even if a bit pricey..

Stefan · 13-10-2012, 10:10 PM

Shame there is no DSG available. Would have considered it as a daily but Sydney stop start traffic 5 days a week in a manual is a deal breaker.

Smoke Pursuit · 13-10-2012, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan

Shame there is no DSG available. Would have considered it as a daily but Sydney stop start traffic 5 days a week in a manual is a deal breaker.

Agreed

SumoDog68 · 13-10-2012, 10:19 PM

Focus ST and 86 are not even competing in the same class - 86 is a pure sports car and ST is a hot hatch . There are many good hot hatches and not many pure sports cars at that price point ...so carsguide as usual has no idea.

naddis01 · 13-10-2012, 10:27 PM

A little of topic but what I found funny was in BFYB in Motor, the G6 Ecoboost was faster than the 86 in every dicipline including lap time at Wakefield. The 86 only beat the G6 in turn 4 and 7 with the G6 getting the other 4 timed corners. The G6 beat the 86 in lap time, top speed, 0-100, 100-0, 0-400m, 400m Vmax, 80-120 and the hillclimb. Not bad for a full sized fuel miser family car.

prydey · 13-10-2012, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cam

. I would prefer the slower 86 then the ST (which I do love) because the 86 would be more fun to drive..

so, you've driven both then? or does being RWD mean its a foregone conclusion??

In Focus · 14-10-2012, 12:06 AM

What's the price difference on these cars?

mike_nofx · 14-10-2012, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

so, you've driven both then? or does being RWD mean its a foregone conclusion??

Remember, we are only human and right or wrong, valid reason or not, we like different things.

Some people just like RWD, like the mechanical layout of RWD, the handling characteristics, the ease of manitenance or modification.... Or that smoking the rear tyres looks so much cooler than the front. Everyone has a reason, no matter how pointless.

Just like how some people will only buy a Falcon OR a Commodore. Why? They do the same thing 98% of the time.

So the Focus or EB Falcon are quicker around a track? What does this mean for 99.9% of drivers who only drive on legal roads?

Nic85 · 14-10-2012, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiesta_Man69

I wish Aus got the full ST Focus range as the Poms get - it starts at £21K and goes thru to a fully loaded £26K.... The base model would be $31K driveaway.... Food for thought.

In performance terms the ST murders the turbo veloster...

And apparently there's plenty of headroom for a stonking 350hp RS... Mmmm

Veloster turbo is 0-100 in high 6's for the manual, mid 6's for the auto. My buddies' Veloster turbo is about a car length slower down the quarter mile than my Polo Gti, and the Polo runs high 14's. So in terms of outright performance, the Veloster turbo would be on par with the Focus ST. The Veloster is also a surprisingly good handler, although my mates has aftermarket rims and rubber.

Also, I've said it before, but its such a pity the Focus ST doesn't come with an automatic option of any sort. It limits the buying audience substantially, and counts it out as a possible upgrade for me completely.

Fiesta_Man69 · 14-10-2012, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by In Focus

What's the price difference on these cars?

Carsguide has them at: ST $38,290 the 86 is $35,490.

However, the ridiculous waiting time (18-24 months if you order an 86 today) should be considered, as well as the "real" price. Checkout Carsales for a guide... Extremely limited supply will do that I suppose..

In real world terms the ST is thousands cheaper.

**Polyal** · 14-10-2012, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SumoDog68

Focus ST and 86 are not even competing in the same class - 86 is a pure sports car and ST is a hot hatch . There are many good hot hatches and not many pure sports cars at that price point ...so carsguide as usual has no idea.

Exactly...god some people draw long bows.

Its exactly the same as when they compare a HSV or FPV to AMG or a M series. There is no real comparison but they just happen to give similar experiences in certain areas. Interesting to read, sure, but dont sit around fooling yourself that a ST really gives the same feedback and reward as a 86.

No doubt for the normal daily grind the ST is better...but I know which one I would take when I want to have a bit of fun, and its not the bum dragger.

Note: I love the ST/RS series as much as anyone else, but lets not compare a FWD to a RWD when it comes to dynamics...some key points of a driving experience are missed as they you cannot put a number or rating on them.

Franco Cozzo · 14-10-2012, 08:40 AM

Its not competing in the same "class", but they're the same price, really the only difference is one drives the rear wheels and the other drives the front, I don't care about that.

For me that means I'd cross shop them both.

To me, "hot hatch" and "sports" are the same.

Bucknaked · 14-10-2012, 08:58 AM

I often wonder if people who bark on about the evils of not having RWD are the same people that their own car is a RWD and Auto. Can we even taken those people seriously? At least sell your auto for a manual and then you can add weight to the arguement.

Nic85 · 14-10-2012, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Its not competing in the same "class", but they're the same price, really the only difference is one drives the rear wheels and the other drives the front, I don't care about that.

For me that means I'd cross shop them both.

To me, "hot hatch" and "sports" are the same.

Gotta agree here. Being at similar price points, it's only natural the ST and 86 will be cross shopped. Yes, they are technically part of different categories, but these days people will cross shop sedans with SUVs, hot hatches with RWD sports cars etc. It's all about value for money these days.

mike_nofx · 14-10-2012, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Its not competing in the same "class", but they're the same price, really the only difference is one drives the rear wheels and the other drives the front, I don't care about that.

For me that means I'd cross shop them both.

To me, "hot hatch" and "sports" are the same.

Of the two people I know who actually have laid money down and have the 86 on order, neither would have bought a hot hatch as an alternative.

**Sorted** · 14-10-2012, 09:22 AM

How can some simple facts turn so ugly - didn't take long - 1 post lol

Sometimes I wonder why people post anything good to say about Ford :(

Thanks for in the info - poor slow 86

Franco Cozzo · 14-10-2012, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike_nofx

Of the two people I know who actually have laid money down and have the 86 on order, neither would have bought a hot hatch as an alternative.

Good luck to them?

It seems all the RWD fanboys on here drive auto Falcons/Commodores and its superior to any FWD car, just because it drives the rear wheels.

Falcon and Commodore do their job perfectly fine as a family sedan, don't get me wrong, but they're hardly the best in handling and driving dynamics really, it goes fairly quick in a straight line and thats it.

prydey · 14-10-2012, 09:24 AM

price is often the determining factor. for me personally, it is the same price as a falcon XR6, so that is what would find its way into my driveway. i'm also not 18 anymore and don't treat the road like a race track, so all the talk of 'handling' and 'driving dynamics' means absolutely diddly squat.

anyways, its a bit hard to say one is better than the other without sampling them.

otherwise as you can see from my post, its all just personal preference. i'm not saying a xr6 is better than either, but for me, it is.

SumoDog68 · 14-10-2012, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nic85

Gotta agree here. Being at similar price points, it's only natural the ST and 86 will be cross shopped. Yes, they are technically part of different categories, but these days people will cross shop sedans with SUVs, hot hatches with RWD sports cars etc. It's all about value for money these days.

Pure sports car means no utility designed into it - it is made purely for driving enjoyment - i doubt anyone crossshops pure sports car against family sedan ,suv or a hatch .
For example young couple looking for a pram friendly car will crossshop XTrail ,Forester , RAV4 and 86 ? Same price point...

Franco Cozzo · 14-10-2012, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SumoDog68

Pure sports car means no utility designed into it - it is made purely for driving enjoyment - i doubt anyone crossshops pure sports car against family sedan ,suv or a hatch .
For example young couple looking for a pram friendly car will crossshop XTrail ,Forester , RAV4 and 86 ? Same price point...

Obviously not, but I'll use me as an example, I'm up for another car in 2014, I'll set a budget and what ever I find I like at the time in that budget is what I'll end up with, doesn't matter if its SUV/sports car/hot hatch/family car etc.

**Polyal** · 14-10-2012, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Its not competing in the same "class", but they're the same price, really the only difference is one drives the rear wheels and the other drives the front, I don't care about that.

For me that means I'd cross shop them both.

To me, "hot hatch" and "sports" are the same.

Thats a perfectly valid argument and I dont disagree..but then take the 86 off your list because its not as practical as a 5 door hatch, and it was never built with the focus, golf et al in its sights.

There is a huuuge difference between hot hatch and a sports car. Again, just because a hot hatch can achieve certain criteria does not mean its a sports car. Its a blurred line sometimes but there is a difference, the 86 was designed, developed and built with driving in mind...thats it...the Focus and the rest are products of hotting up a passenger car.

Some people want a car that is just transport, some want transport with a bit of punch, and then some want a more pure experience...all are good for various reasons but there is a difference between all of them even though some attributes are shared.

jpd80 · 14-10-2012, 09:53 AM

A refreshingly positive review from carsguide, it's so good to see a writer focusing on what's good about today's cars
ST is an amazing package that surely puts Ford front and centre with hot hatch buyers, and that has to be a good thing.

I don't agree with comparisons with the likes of Toyota 86 as that is arguably a more specific sports car
buyer demographic - something maybe a Mustang in varying configurations could better fill at a later time?