Euro cars - image match reality?

[jphanna]

My first drive of a EURO car was when my son bought a 1982 BMW 318 coupe about 6 years ago. We took it for a cruise near the Barossa valley and I was amazed how it sat on the road and steered. This car had high mileage, rust, and tired. Yet it felt this good….
So I thought to myself, if the opportunity ever presented itself, I would like to get a modern incarnation of this nimble BMW. The one series fitted the specifications perfectly.

This time last year…..the opportunity presented itself. So after about 6 weeks of searching, I settled on a 10 year old convertible 125I 3.0litre six. This one is the base detuned 6, not the fire breathing twin turbo. It can still use 91 at the pumps!!!

Anyway it’s not long after I bought it that I joined a few BMW forums. Something soon become apparent. Just for a moment, I want to portray this vision. You sitting at the lights or driving in the twisty B roads in the hills, in a gleaming Euro sports car, surrounded by nice interior, sound of a BMW 6, the feel of the car, the handling……you convince yourself that you deserve this and thoroughly enjoy it. People sharing the road with you, may think…I wonder what its like to have a fancy euro sports car. like me before I bought one, I used to think it must be great to own one………

The reality is this…..the forums are LITTERED with bugs and failures of multiple systems that plague BMW. They are notoriously unreliable. I myself have had an ABS unit fail midway through the year ($1000.00 fix – non dealer. $5500.00 fix – dealer). They have so many glitches with their systems, pumps, motors, sensors…..the list goes on. you have to wonder if they do any testing before they release their cars. Do they assume that people with other than brand new cars don’t exist?

I don’t know if MERC have glitches like BMW cars, but I will hold onto mine with the knowledge that at any moment, a new glitch will appear.

I plan to embark on a great ocean road trip in the near future. The theoretical optimum fun option, is the take the BMW convertible, but……I want to know that I will make it home, so I will take the FG instead!!

[ryeman]

Our Citroën works brilliantly - on E10:




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[Cav]

Should have bought an AU Fairlane Sportsman

[jphanna]

Originally Posted by Cav

Should have bought an AU Fairlane Sportsman

my son is building such a car, with dinner plate sized turbo installation. should be done in an a months time

[Citroënbender]

I have little problem with the Frogmobiles here. This week replacing two gearbox solenoids in one of them - a known weak point of the specific autobox - the killer has been labour time in “digging down” to extract and replace. The AW box in other later models is the same as many Euro marques feature and suffer a less than ideal valve body life. Instead of $1500 for a full clutch job you pay nearly double to fix properly with an update part.

The Alfas have been good, again ignore forum chatter about relays and fuses, replace shift accumulator every three years or at least check off the car by hydraulic pressure test rig, that it’s within tolerance. Like the BMW SMG box (same technology, same provider, same issues) use common sense not forum static to maintain and diagnose. Only issue I dislike with the Alfa is the “sudden death” crank sensor, this ($75 part, 20 minute job) is bloody dangerous and should be a ten year service item irrespective of mileage, for safety.

Anything with a variable displacement compressor on the AC will suffer misdiagnosed ageing here. VAG, Citroën, Fiat... Another easy fix with the greatest cost being gas down and back up.

I’ll be honest, the Falcon is the car I trust least in terms of reliability but it’s cheap and easy to fix. Add self levelling hydropneumatics to the rear and it would be a great transformation.

[ryeman]

I’d comment in the other place if I hadn’t been banned for being relevant in this new era.


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[richardxr8]

Lol.
The missus had an E36 convertible with the 2.8 Nice to drive, great sounding exhaust and nimble.
But I felt your pain on the maintenance side....
Most parts are reasonable if ordered in from OS, with some AUS euro parts places reasonable priced (Reasonable means ~20% extra compared to falcadore bits)
But its a constant battle with things failing/falling off/etc and SOME bits are outrageously overpriced...
ABS module I fixed by disassembling and bypassing the internal circuit board connections with wire and solder... (Beats $1000+)
Heater/mixer valves need a lathe to turn up some new bits, plus some O-rings etc (Beats ~$900 for the valve assembly)
Cast aluminium sump had a leak, major job to R&R, so brakekleen and JBWeld fixed that...
VANOS rattle was another $$$ job.
They are enjoyable, but the $ Vs enjoyment ration wasn't there, so it got sold

[Cav]

Originally Posted by ryeman

I’d comment in the other place if I hadn’t been banned for being relevant in this new era.


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Such a wry comment Ryeman

[ebv8]

I was all amped up to buy a 120i for work duties, was talking a mate who was bmw mad and he said steer clear of the 4cyl so i was looking at the 125i and 130i but another mate who had a 135i just spent $10k on repairs so i put the idea to bed
bought a very low km AU falcon instead and its been very reliable and all the ladies love it (the last part is not true)

[lra]

My father loved Holdens as his work vehicle, but bought Peugeots for personal transport.
Then complained about Peugeot rust, oil leaks, expensive services and parts, something he didn't do regarding his Holdens.
I have always been of the opinion, if can't afford to buy a Euro car new, then you can't afford the maintenance on a used one.

[Wretched]

We have had a number of Euro cars.
The only ones that had issues or annoyances were VWs.
The Euro Fords we have had, no complaints, solid reliable cars.

[jphanna]

Originally Posted by lra

My father loved Holdens as his work vehicle, but bought Peugeots for personal transport.
Then complained about Peugeot rust, oil leaks, expensive services and parts, something he didn't do regarding his Holdens.
I have always been of the opinion, if can't afford to buy a Euro car new, then you can't afford the maintenance on a used one.

people used to joke about Korean cars 30 years ago, but some of these fancy European cars and the faults they...very EARLY on in their life make a mockery of the notion of any sort of reliability.

sure you would expect a 150,000km aussie/japanese/korean car to start having predicable problems. sure an Aussie/japanese/korean car will charge less for parts than a European car.

cost for parts of European car parts is going to be more expensive. that a given....what doesnt make sense is when bits and pieces start falling apart and major big $$$ repairs at 50,000kms......not 150,000!!!

what happened to so called German quality?

[Sprintey]

Saw the olds go through it for so many years with Euros here. New bills, rare parts and not being mechanics, they paid lots of $$$. Later they came to their senses and went for locals or Hyundai which have been good. Then there's the added tech where a smashed side mirror with all its electric trickery can cost a couple of grand - all brands in newer cars.

Recent Aussie Fords, well the Terry for eg you have to keep rebuilding the suspension so that detracts somewhat from the robustness of the rest of it.

So the winner is the AU Falcon with live rear axle, or non-2.8D4D Toyotas.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by jphanna

what happened to so called German quality?

I think they went too complex for emissions for eg. look at the VW Twincharger - brilliant concept, power and economy, petrol turbo and supercharger. In the execution, it was complex, the clutch for the SC bolted onto the water pump iirc, that's before you get to the mechatronics and DSG gearbox which also was complex to improve economy

sometimes a big dumb simple solution is the best bet, especially in Oz

[Citroënbender]

My father’s first car in Oz, was an Esky, bought new (‘69 model, fixed sure windows, small motor). He wasn’t convinced the sportier model was a good buy.

He was overcharged and underserviced, and happily ditched it in 1974.

[jphanna]

in Australia we used to see for decades wheels magazine and Motor magazine showing our manufactures (when we had them...) absolutely flogging new models to oblivion, to see what falls apart. and then fix the part that faltered......test it again then put it into production once all is given the ok.

from what i assume is happening in the other side of the world, a new innovation, cutting edge is developed in a lap, or on a computer. they build one. put it in a car. send FRITZ to run the car around the block......still working? Yep.....put in production asap.

[DJR-351]

My brothers 2016 340i M Sport hasn't had any problems, it goes like stink but he looks after it, he did buy it new though........

[roKWiz]

Are they still installing soy based wiring looms in the Euro's ?
There was a lot of dirt cheap 90s-00s Benz awhile ago.

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Are they still installing soy based wiring looms in the Euro's ?
There was a lot of dirt cheap 90s-00s Benz awhile ago.

Yes the European bio-degradable wiring harnesses are great weren't they ?

Dr Terry

[smoo]

With the exception of older Mercedes, Volvos and maybe Peugeot’s, when have Euros had an image of being reliable?
They’ve always had the reputation of expensive to maintain and repair...

[NX74205]

Dad has a W211 E200 Kompressor, bought about two years ago. Since then, the only thing to go wrong is the rain sensing wipers, which sometimes goes off even when the windscreen is bone dry.

Other than that, there's absolutely nothing wrong with the car. And the W211 was supposed to be one of the less reliable Mercedes.

I think it really depends on how it's been looked after. The car was immaculately maintained and had a full service history when we got it.

[Franco Cozzo]

The problem with Euros is that the average local tradies lack the skills to diagnose and repair them, as well as the networks required to obtain the parts cheaply.

Plus they don't really hold up well to our conditions, leave em outside for 5 years getting hot/cold/hot/cold cycles and watch the electrical dramas unfold.

IMO I'll stick with local, Jap and Koran stuff I think.

My first car, new WS Fiesta a decade ago, we still have it, paint is badly oxidised on the roof and bonnet, the interior trims have warped so the window switches fall out, rattles, Ford badge has no paint on it anymore.

Old man's Fiesta ST has 105,000km on it now, bought it new 3 years ago, dash rattles, rough idle, some issues with the stereo and rain sensing wipers seem to have developed a mind of their own - gets serviced every 10,000km not 15,000km like the book says too.

But worst of all - VAG will be the death of us

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

IMO I'll stick with local, Jap and Koran stuff I think.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

That may have looked like I meant 'Korean' but I actually meant Quran

[MITCHAY]

Unless it is a M or AMG. I'm not really interested at all in BMW or Mercs. The rest are overpriced taxis in my opinion, much rather a Commodore or Falcon for the money.

I'm not really into luxury cars in the first place, but admire the engineering in those badges to have the luxo and performance.

Edit I should probably add the Audi RS range in there too.

[jakkes]

I had a 1995 bmw 325I coupé (the SILVER BULLET) was a very enjoyable car even hit a roo in it haha after 5 years ended up back in a v8 falcon don’t regret either decision it was a perfect size city car with enough performance once a chip was installed to let it rev a little more

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by lra

I have always been of the opinion, if can't afford to buy a Euro car new, then you can't afford the maintenance on a used one.

Spot On..

[XR Martin]

They'll be well engineered, but with the EU as it is the parts will be made in some dodgy factory in Slovakia where to cut costs they'll use a cheap and nasty components which will fail well before it should.
By the time everyone realizes the factory is long gone or owned by someone else.

[happy1]

Being from Europe, and being a motor head, I bought, repaired, owned and sold in total about 30 different cars from late 80s to mid 2000s, until I moved to Australia. Near half of them were Euro Fords, (Fiesta, Escort, Sierra) The others were equal split of other Euro makes and Jap cars. Toyota Corolla, Carina E, Avensis, and some Nissan.

Many of them were panel repair jobs. I remember someone once told me, 'If you panel repair an Euro car, you also need to repair all the other broken parts. If you panel repair a Jap car then the job is simply finished as planned, with no extra repairs required'. I found that to be very true. The Euro cars I had always needed mechanical repairs also to be 100%. Part replacement work started already on cars that were just a few years old, just out of warranty. Whilst with 90's Jap cars there were none of that. A little more expensive to buy, but price retained itself better, and usually no broken parts to replace.

I didn't have much to do with BMWs while I was in Europe, but wife's car in Australia has been an 4-cylincer E90 for 10 years. It has been a safe and reliable car, with only a few broken parts over its high kilometer life.
The technology in the E90 has been a great for fuel economy, such as the electronically controlled variable valve lift system. It suffered some failures at about 150k, needing new camshaft sensor and valve adjustment motor.
It also suffered water leaks from the plastic radiator fittings. So some of this could have been better. BMW brake parts wear out twice as fast as on a Falcon. BMW parts are stupid expensive at the dealer in Australia, but it is possible to find parts at 1/3 cost online that are still good quality.

Things like faulty ABS unit that you experienced isn't BMW's fault. These are sub-vendor components found across many makes.

Cheers,

[Dr Smith]

Probably explains why the big 3 German brands are still trying to avoid 5 year warranties.

The typical Euro new car buyer turns it over before the 3 years and the next owner that experiences the faults get told.....It's a second hand Euro what do you expect?..

I had 2 VW vans that both got to 300,000km however the costs of keeping them running in their last 3-6 months before I dumped them was rediculous. They drove beautifully right up to the trade-in however as work vehicles just not smart,..the routine was... break down, tow back, empty contents, hire replacement van, work twice as hard to catch up on lost time, fix van, pay between $1000 to $6,000, pay rental company, transfer contents and do it again a few months later...

I always tell someone thinking of buying a newish euro, look at Carsales and see what a 2.5 year old euro is worth and what the same model at 3.5 is worth and if there hasn't been a major upgrade to that model, then the main difference is one has 6months of factory warranty and one is out of warranty by 6 months....but often the price is different enough to think one seems to be a great deal...

and the old joke.."What is VW's second most popular new car purchase option? ....An extended warranty"...