Workplace reg changes.

svo347 · 01-07-2005, 06:40 PM

Well Im surprised that no one has started a thread on this so here goes.
Do you think the new laws they are trying to put thru are fair, I mean seriously look at the big picture.
If the laws change under the current proposition, you can easily get fired from your job, no more unfair dismissal, you also will not get sick leave benefits, annual leave entitlements & no more double bubble on public holidays etc. Just one flat rate!!.
No more 10 hr breaks off between shifts etc....
IMHO i believe it will only make the little people trying to get ahead, lag further behind....
Your view...

Casper · 01-07-2005, 06:45 PM

I think that all sounds like union scare tactics.
I have NEVER been on an official award in my life. Thank god cause I couldnt handle a pay cut like that!

svo347 · 01-07-2005, 06:47 PM

Really there was a discussion on the news where they themselves pointed out the losses to the australian Joe Blow.

Casper · 01-07-2005, 06:54 PM

Well, considereing the mammoth cost to business to continually rehire and retrain people it is in the best interests of most employers to keep employees.. to do this they must remain wage competative.
Of course this wont apply to all, there is good and bad in all groups, but I honestly believe the current scare tactics are the "worse case senario" and not the reality.
Add on top of this the fact that unions will still exist and still fight for the "worker" and I doubt there will be a massive upheaval in the workplace.

svo347 · 01-07-2005, 07:00 PM

I hope your right Shane..
Only time will tell.

Casper · 01-07-2005, 07:03 PM

I hope I am too.. time will tell.

Still, I honestly believe that while some will win and some will lose, the overall outcome will remain similar to what it is now.. but a hell of a lot easier for small business to survive. Remember, over 100 employees and this whole change is irrelevant.

Psycho Chicken · 01-07-2005, 07:23 PM

Personally I reckon most of the people whinging about it are the bludgers who expect everything to be given to them. Get off your **** and make yourself worthwhile to you boss, they won't give you the flick then.

svo347 · 01-07-2005, 07:30 PM

Yeah right chook, what if the boss didnt like you for whatever reason, he can sack you with out another excuse.

Psycho Chicken · 01-07-2005, 07:44 PM

LIke I said most people.

Yes I understand there is legitimate concern for a lot of things, but listening to who's whinging about it the most, it's the bludgers who hide behind all these laws to stay in a job.

I'm not really fussed by the whole thing, I reckon Casper is right and most things will stay the same. If you're doing your job properly it shouldn't matter if you boss doesn't like you. Yes I realise there are ******** bosses, but the majority should have enough common sense to realise they can put up with you (yeah, boss, common sense, I know :P).

What ****es me off the most about it all is the fact the government can now pass whatever the hell they like. That's too much power, this is far from democracy. It's just like being an elected dictator. Extreme description, but it's true. Fair enough they probably won't have control of the senate in a few years time, but god knows when someone who wants to reverse laws like this will.

mcflux · 01-07-2005, 07:52 PM

With the old law (unfair dismissal), there was an apprentice mechanic I knew of who f**ked up a good business. He was hopeless (attitude AND no skill), and his employers could not find a valid way to fire him until their business was down the tubes and they had to lay him off or face bankruptcy. THESE are the businesses that this new law will help ;)

As for managers who would fire people just because they're feeling a little bit ****ed off one day, makes you wonder how they became (or can remain as) managers. And remember, managers have managers too ;)

-Dave-

MO · 01-07-2005, 08:26 PM

OK I was a union sec/rep for over twenty years...I can tell you there will be those that will exploit the new system. An example in the sugar industry if your employed for 12mths you have to be made permanent..what do the bosses do let you go at 11mths and 2 weeks,then rehire you again after a month.
So what happens to lsl,super etc?

This action by the Libs is going to see the them out of power at the next election,it will have huge ramifications for the average worker.

To the mods I have tried to stay non political..ie no derisive comments etc,so I hope you don't lock what could be a very interesting thread.

Bossxr8 · 01-07-2005, 08:40 PM

I reckon the proposed reg changes are crap. People at small companies will have no job security at all. There are some real pricks out there that will use these regs to do whatever they want, say an employee gets sick and has continued medical problems, do you think the boss will hesitate in firing them for someone who is in good health. In theory it might work but in practice there are too many pricks who don't care about anything but their profits.

Citric GT · 01-07-2005, 08:48 PM

What worries me is that people in jobs like mine (freight train driver) are reporting to managers with abosolutely no experience or qualifications in the industry. Its a problem that has come about in the last few years with privatisation and we're constantly fighting with the managers over whats needed to get the job done eg: Loco maintainance, shift requirements etc.

I know that we'll have a tough time with the new changes because it will probably end up being a case of "do it or leave". From what I understand, any of us in depots of under 100 staff we could be forced onto individual agreements...not good when your boss dosen't even understand your job.

The only thing on our side is a mass shortage of drivers looming as most are in thier late 50s and ready to retire.

Starting to wish I voted differently now...

MO · 01-07-2005, 08:56 PM

Live and learn...the trouble is because someone has a degree in admin or business they make them a boss and they have absolutely no experience in the job or life and they wonder why the workers get ****ed at bosses stupidity. To me the good boss is one who came up through the ranks and knows the job inside out then you get common sense ..unless he has a degree holder above him who counteracts the lower boss's decisions.

MO · 01-07-2005, 08:59 PM

I guess there is really only one thing to say here......UNITY IS STRENGTH...become a member of your respective union and fight this.

Citric GT · 01-07-2005, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John McMaster

Live and learn...the trouble is because someone has a degree in admin or business they make them a boss and they have absolutely no experience in the job or life and they wonder why the workers get ****ed at bosses stupidity. To me the good boss is one who came up through the ranks and knows the job inside out then you get common sense ..unless he has a degree holder above him who counteracts the lower boss's decisions.

You are 100% correct.

I've only been on the job for 4 years and for a short time at the begining I worked under that old system of having qualified & experienced boss around. They always understood our side of the story and did the best they could to satisfy thier bosses/beancounters and our needs.

I think we'll be seeing a lot more people getting back into unions now.

MO · 01-07-2005, 09:13 PM

Further to the above the union/labour movement began in the 1800's around Barcaldine in QLD,with a shearers strike for better pay and conditions.
It resulted in the Govt' of the day sending in the troops,not to mention what the landed gentry did.
Of all the strikers and all the fighting when it was done 7 of the strikers,the ringleaders were charged and convicted by the courts of the day...and hung by the neck until dead.

All because they stood up for a fair deal,if you have any doubts about what I have said then please do a google search or better still get hold of a book called "Land of Hope"by Gay Scales,ISBN 0 85561 062 X (Pbk).

It was also a mini series on Aunty.

Might I finish by saying you all should at least make a trip to the tree of knowledge in Barcaldine and visit the museum,to learn why we have unions and that without them you would still be earning industrial revolution wages.

Citric GT · 01-07-2005, 09:21 PM

Just had a phone call saying I've been eleceted the union delegate for my team of 15. Although it was only because no one else wanted it and our original delegate is now becoming our state rep so I'm like his assistant I suppose. Ah well looks like more horrible phone calls day & night now!

We need to elect a new Ben Chifley...

MO · 01-07-2005, 09:34 PM

A word of advice..take or leave as you wish..get hold of your award and read and learn it till you know it backwards at the same time learn how the IR system works.

You will get a lot of those who will try you on to see if you can handle the job,be calm,don't lose your cool,if you don't have an immediate answer..your answer is the truth..I don't know but I will look it up and get back to you asap.
And you must follow through in order to maintain credibilty,remember you are new to the job and need time to learn and always do your best for the troops who rely on you.

Casper · 01-07-2005, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Citric XR6

From what I understand, any of us in depots of under 100 staff we could be forced onto individual agreements...not good when your boss dosen't even understand your job.

I think you will find a depot is not a company. The new law will be for COMPANIES who's entire staff is under 100. A depot is a department or location, not a company.

I work in payroll, I install them, I can assure you the come 14 July you will have a company ABN on your PAYE summary, not a depot ABN.

It wont apply to you...

Citric GT · 01-07-2005, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John McMaster

A word of advice..take or leave as you wish..get hold of your award and read and learn it till you know it backwards at the same time learn how the IR system works.

You will get a lot of those who will try you on to see if you can handle the job,be calm,don't lose your cool,if you don't have an immediate answer..your answer is the truth..I don't know but I will look it up and get back to you asap.
And you must follow through in order to maintain credibilty,remember you are new to the job and need time to learn and always do your best for the troops who rely on you.

Thanks for the advice.

Over the last few days I've been confusing myself more and more with our 100 odd page EBA...

:

Luckily I have a lot of support from the bloke I'm (sort of) replacing.

Jamie XR6 · 01-07-2005, 09:43 PM

Though these new laws don't effect me as a member of the Defence Force, I'm not happy at all with them.

It's easy to say that they only effect a small number of people (3 million members of the workforce) I'd hate to be one of them.

They are unfair and I hope that they don't make it through, but since little Johnny has the majority of the Senate, they will be passed.

MO · 01-07-2005, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Citric XR6

Thanks for the advice.

Over the last few days I've been confusing myself more and more with our 100 odd page EBA...

:

Luckily I have a lot of support from the bloke I'm (sort of) replacing.

Hang in there it takes time but you learn as you go...unlike me who 15 yrs ago was elected branch sec of my union..talk about being thrown in at the deep end,I'd only ever been an active member..no one else wanted to stand.

MO · 01-07-2005, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Casper

I think you will find a depot is not a company. The new law will be for COMPANIES who's entire staff is under 100. A depot is a department or location, not a company.

I work in payroll, I install them, I can assure you the come 14 July you will have a company ABN on your PAYE summary, not a depot ABN.

It wont apply to you...

Casper I beg to differ the rule is for business's of less than 100 employees that does'nt mean its a company

MO · 01-07-2005, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamie XR6

Though these new laws don't effect me as a member of the Defence Force, I'm not happy at all with them.

It's easy to say that they only effect a small number of people (3 million members of the workforce) I'd hate to be one of them.

They are unfair and I hope that they don't make it through, but since little Johnny has the majority of the Senate, they will be passed.

You forget you signed a contract with the ADF for whatever period you signed on for...that in effect is an AWA.
You are part of the three million.....one more point I was one of a small number of members of the ADF who went on strike in the 60's for better pay and conditions..to give you albeit not much but a better pay than you might have gotten.

Jamie XR6 · 01-07-2005, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John McMaster

You forget you signed a contract with the ADF for whatever period you signed on for...that in effect is an AWA.
You are part of the three million.....one more point I was one of a small number of members of the ADF who went on strike in the 60's for better pay and conditions..to give you albeit not much but a better pay than you might have gotten.

I'm more than happy with my pay, I always have been, but I also can't be dismissed off hand which I believe will be the case with these new laws.

MO · 01-07-2005, 10:30 PM

No you're right you can't be dismissed until your contract runs out and then unless they need you,they will not ask you to sign on again.
However if they don't need you...well you can figure it out...I was out on an honourable discharge in 3 days...quickest known ...except for dishon,part of the price for going on strike.
Think about this..what are your trade quals..will they keep you in the ADF..can you use them in the private sector....think about this in the private sector you can contribute as much as you can to your super,you can salary sacrifice to lower your taxable income..can you do this in the ADF.

SpoolMan · 01-07-2005, 10:31 PM

No Scare tactics... its reality...... not only will some loose the right to unfair dismissal. my sister in law has been at the same job for 6 years her Contract is coming up ...now if she doesn’t except the new contract her boss can sack her...she has no recourse of action bye bye......There are plenty of good boss's out there..... but there are plenty of bad ones also....they are also going to cut the allowable matters in your awards this will become law like all the changes that are coming up and we cant move over to state awards because the federal government is taking control of that also....... at the moment most have 20 allowable matters in there awards.....the employers groups are pushing to have that reduced to 5.... I personally think they won’t get them that low (5) but they will be lowered....
Let’s face it if someone gets the sack by there Boss and it was for good reason what has the Boss to fear? Why do they want this law?
Ask yourself what’s wrong with the current system?
Enterprise bargaining works well, theses agreements between the Boss and the workers on pay increases works fine.
If you don’t have an EB you are in the twice yearly wage case, which is run by the industrial relations commission (which we call the umpire between the worker & boss) ….. This commission is going to be closed down by the federal government and replaced by one of there own...
The Federal government have been strong advocate of AWA Australian work place agreement.
These help lower wages and are designed to take the power away from workers as a collective... As the AWA must remain a secret between the Boss and the worker.
It’s not just the unions that are questioning these new measures, plenty of church groups, support groups & charities are asking why?

Why are they messing with a System that is working fine?

Jamie XR6 · 01-07-2005, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John McMaster

No you're right you can't be dismissed until your contract runs out and then unless they need you,they will not ask you to sign on again.
However if they don't need you...well you can figure it out...I was out on an honourable discharge in 3 days...quickest known ...except for dishon,part of the price for going on strike.
Think about this..what are your trade quals..will they keep you in the ADF..can you use them in the private sector....think about this in the private sector you can contribute as much as you can to your super,you can salary sacrifice to lower your taxable income..can you do this in the ADF.

Not wanting to sound arrogant but, I know I'm safe. I'm a Electrical Fitter/Mechanic. We are so short in this branch, apart from stabbing an Admiral, they will not let me go especially at my rank (CPO). I'm also on what is called an open end enlistment which means I'm on a no fixed time contract, I'm in for as long as I want (well until I'm 55).

Yes I can salary sacrifice, it was introduced into the ADF several years ago and I also have a say in what I can contribute into my super.

And that's why I have no intention of leaving in the near future.

MO · 01-07-2005, 10:47 PM

Jamie It gladdens my heart to see that what I and others stood up for in the 60's has paid off.
More power to you stick it out get the best deal you can..and then go and work for the private sector to bolster your pension earnings