Supercharging an i6

[MADED-6]

Iwas just wondering about supercharging the 4.0lt 6 engine have many ppl done this and if so how much did it cost and does it get much power. what supercharer did u use and do u have any pics. I'd rather go supercharger than turbo for the instant boost and driveability. also how much boost do u run. i understand the 4.0lt can take a bit of boost without to much hassles because they dont run much compession anyway.

Thanx Josh.

[stiddy]

ED's have 8.8:1 compression so you can whack on a blower kit without touching the motor/compression.. anything upto 15psi.
Powerdynes tend to be a cheap, easy bolt on kit - gives about 200rwkw on 9ish psi, but thats on the superchargers limits. kit costs around the 6k (NOT installed) mark from Capa.. ontop of the kit from Capa i would strongly recommend getting an EMS and get it tuned properly..
Vortech S-Trim on the other hand, would be the way to go in my opinion.. works out a little more expensive, but works out better for future mods if you have any planned and i think is generally a better headunit.. although im not sure if capa make the bracketry to suit anymore.

[SWOOP]

15psi hehe thats funny
I put a setup in my ED xr6 made best of 200rkw @7psi no cooling and eventually ate No.6 piston on a perfect stock motor <<<<<<<<
,even using second hand gear still cost close to 10g was the best Mod ive done to date but also gave me major headaches
intake temps are killer ,you need water to air IC setup
speak to Rmyers ,V8 capri and LTDHO these guys currently have good setups and GUNNS has my old setup

[snypereb]

I gather 15psi is not correct by it and put it in yourself!!

[stiddy]

if im wrong- tell me why on a turbo application you can crank 15psi into them all day.. but you cant with a supercharger?

[stiddy]

and ontop of that a blower is 'softer' on a motor then what a turbo is, more linear and progressive, builds boost with revs not a sudden whack at 2500-3000rpm..

so 15psi, yes absolutely... provided you dont up your compression..

[finnyman]

im gathering cuz with the turbo lag it gradually puts the power into the engine rahter than have instant power which puts more strain on your drivetrain and engine, not saying ur wrong stiddy cuz every1's cars differ even if there the same, i believe you stiddy lol

[SWOOP]

Dont take offence Stiddy your opinion is as vailed just as mine is its up to others to reseach and decifer
Im not saying you cant (anything can be done) its just extreme when talking Centrifugal blowers(no turbo talk) having headunitto produce 15psi etc is one thing
belt setup (vee handling 15psi not likely I got slip with 8psi and 8rib vee) and a trick one will cost above 1 g etc
another is intake heat generated through friction etc ,tuning would be a big cost

Stiddy your talking from two different to ends of spectrum $6000 kits and and 15psi stockmotor setup is not exactly correct .

Yes mate I installed it all ,relatively easy ,
even managed to drive it 80+kms very carefully untuned to JMM for brendon to finish tuning
heaps off teething problems ,belt slips ,pipes blowing off ,oil blow by all the usual boost related stuff

[tommo74]

I dont think you can crank a p/d unit to 15psi at all....wont handle it.
The v/tech "s' trim i think most people run em at 10-12?
With this type of centrifugal s/c you have to run an oil reserve to the sump...but this is included in fitting I think.
CAPA will supply the whole kit...everything you need...and bigger injectors etc...think they might even include a chip
p/d=6 grand and vortech add a couple k

[blwneb]

Well i am in the process of fitting a 9ps powerdyne to my eb4l, and i tell you what, if your motor has done over 200.000k, it wont handle it long, best bet is to do a full stock rebuild, and replace cam, do not run it lean, and i stress that, soon as you fit, take it to a tuner, as you will drive it it will ping, and blow headgasket, the air/fuel ratio has to be spot on, these things need atlest 20l per 100k, at 9psi, to stop pinging, so you need plenty of patience, and add an extra 500-1000 dollars for the tune, it will take 1-2days to get right.

[tommo74]

yeah its not just as simple as slap it on and drive away...wish it WAS though

[stiddy]

Originally Posted by SWOOP

Dont take offence Stiddy your opinion is as vailed just as mine is its up to others to reseach and decifer
Im not saying you cant (anything can be done) its just extreme when talking Centrifugal blowers(no turbo talk) having headunitto produce 15psi etc is one thing
belt setup (vee handling 15psi not likely I got slip with 8psi and 8rib vee) and a trick one will cost above 1 g etc
another is intake heat generated through friction etc ,tuning would be a big cost

Im not taking offence at all, im still looking into it aswell but im speaking of what ive heard, seen, read about etc etc..
Ive seen powerdyne kits (6k-ish from capa) make 200rwkw at 9psi which ive been told is the max of the unit..
Vortech, was (8k-ish from capa) but stopped making the bracketry for the 6's, because most people were happy with a powerdyne.... but some people just arent satisfied with them, if i was going a s/c i wouldnt waste my money on a PD, but thats me..
Vortechs S-trim Maximum boost pressure is 20 psi. for anything upto 680hp..

Stiddy your talking from two different to ends of spectrum $6000 kits and and 15psi stockmotor setup is not exactly correct .

i wasnt talking from 2 different ends, i know thats wrong, thats why i suggested the S trim, I know the PD will not be capable of reaching that.
As for beltslip and whatever else there is ways around it, ribbed belts/pulleys?

6k-8k for a basic setup yeah, but ontop of that include an intercooler, engine management, better pulleys etc etc your gonna be up for 10k+ either way.. unless you know people or go 2nd hand...

the way i would go about it is to buy a 2nd hand S-trim from capa, buy my parts separately and get it done myself..

Tommo, the kit capa supply gives you everythign right down to the last nut and bolt, including the chip, injectors, etc like you mentioned.. ive rang and questioned em..

[Obriza]

I was always under the impression that a turbo would give you more power, even though it only kicks in at the higher revs it gives you more in the long run. Is this true?

[stockstandard]

15psi on a stock engine is a BIG ask. So many parts will be seriously stressed - pistons, headgaskets, etc. Even with a fresh 'stock' engine I highly doubt it will be reliable for any length of time. Personally, i wouldnt push the average 4.0 past 6psi, maybe 9 if I knew the engine and tune were both good.

The kind of power youll be putting out with 15psi will shatter a t5's and cook btr's unless you baby it or add a big cooler.

[xr8ute]

Hmm...seems some people need to re-read Stiddy's first post.

I haven't seen anyone suggest that a $6k powerdyne based kit will make 15psi of boost, or that it would be a simple bolt up no problems deal going Vortech...

Vortech S-Trim can make 12 pound boost on an AU V8, then it can make 15psi at the same speed on an ED 4L.

You would need to keep an eye on belt slip as Swoop has mentioned, but you'd have to be braindead to use anything less than an 8-rib pulley setup anyway.

Swoop, why did no. 6 piston "melt". What did your fuel system and engine management consist of at the time?

94EDGhia, you'll find the type of supercharger we are talking about hear wont make the instant lag-free boost you are thinking of. In fact the turbo will deliver more boost quicker than a centrifugal supercharger will.

I agree with Stiddy that Powerdyne is probably not worth it. For not much more, you should be able to put together a Vortech S-Trim based kit, custom braket, custom tensioner/pulley setup, 42lbs injectors, 255lph intank fuel pump, and aftermarket engine mangement......and get some pretty seriously wicked results.

Do it!!!

[xr8ute]

Originally Posted by Obriza

even though it only kicks in at the higher revs it gives you more in the long run. Is this true?

A carefully selected turbo will "kick-in" and produce full boost much quicker than a centrifugal supercharger.

[xr8ute]

Originally Posted by stockstandard

15psi on a stock engine is a BIG ask.

Maybe, but stock bottom ends are cheap (so they tell me). How much boost is EB Six on Boost running on his stock motor?

Tune is everything...

[Obriza]

Originally Posted by xr8ute

A carefully selected turbo will "kick-in" and produce full boost much quicker than a centrifugal supercharger.

So would that mean that a turbo is better than a s/c?

[stockstandard]

Originally Posted by xr8ute

Maybe, but stock bottom ends are cheap (so they tell me). How much boost is EB Six on Boost running on his stock motor?

Tune is everything...

No argument there - dont skimp on the tuning.

Also true that bottom ends are cheap, but that wont mean much if it dumps its guts within 10,000k's of seeing boost. It doesnt cost much to freshen up a bottom end with some half decent parts.

Drag cars are a whole different story, you can afford to run smaller safety margins.

[stockstandard]

Originally Posted by Obriza

So would that mean that a turbo is better than a s/c?

More power isnt always better. With the type of supercharger you get from capa the power comes on smooth. The power curve is more 'user friendly'.

Depending on the setup, turbos will give more down low power, but you might not be able to use it because youll just spin the wheels.

All depends on the specific setup though

[xr8ute]

Originally Posted by Obriza

So would that mean that a turbo is better than a s/c?

Depends on which turbo you are comparing to which supercharger and for what purpose...

One is not necessarily better than the other.

[Obriza]

Well for example if i had a turbo and a s/c with the same amount of boost, which one would add more rwkws? and which would be better for 1/4 mile speed?

[stiddy]

the main reason im saying 15psi is because ebsixonboost has a stock motor apart from turbo cam, and hes pumping 16psi into it and making 270rwkw.. and his motor is what 2 years old now??
i wouldnt push it past 9-10psi on an AU motor, purely because there comp ratio is 9.3:1 or something.. but with something like an ED which is 8.8:1, go hard!!

[stiddy]

Originally Posted by Obriza

Well for example if i had a turbo and a s/c with the same amount of boost, which one would add more rwkws? and which would be better for 1/4 mile speed?

More than likely, the turbo will come out ontop both down the strip and on the dyno..

[stockstandard]

Originally Posted by Obriza

Well for example if i had a turbo and a s/c with the same amount of boost, which one would add more rwkws? and which would be better for 1/4 mile speed?

It really depends on the setup. There are different types of superchargers which boost in different ways. With turbos you can pick something that will come on boost quicker and give you more low and midrange power, but you might lose peak rwkw. There is a lot more to forced induction than just how many PSI your pushing.

[Obriza]

Well i guess ill be joining the e-series turbo club then. Hopefully in the not so distant future.

[xr8ute]

Theres still too many variables, which turbo and which supercharger? Whats your budget? What comprimises are you willing to make?

Stockstandard explained it pretty well. The linear power curve you get from a centrifugal blower can actually make it easier to drive quickly....power isn't everything.

[xr8ute]

Originally Posted by Obriza

Well i guess ill be joining the e-series turbo club then. Hopefully in the not so distant future.

Good. The important thing to rememer is that some boost (regardless of wether its from a turbo or supercharger) is almost always better than no boost

[Obriza]

Well i was thinking of going with capa, they any good? they seem to have pretty good deals with what ive seen. going by them, theyre turbos give more power than the s/c. Also my reasoning is im gonna go turbo or s/c go the best, saves money and time upgrading more in the future. Just means a little more time aside saving up :P

[stiddy]

give me a supercharger any day of the week though.. :P