why are there head problems on e series?

bab · 22-02-2006, 09:22 AM

why do the e series models suffer from early head problems and on a low mileage car is it worthwhile doing preventitive action ie changing head bolts etc,will this possibly prevent head dramas ?

EA2BA · 22-02-2006, 09:30 AM

The head gasket material is the problem and as they have an alloy head and cast iron block they expand and different rates and this causes head gasket failure (in most cases), if you keep your engine in good conditoin with coolant, rust inhibitor etc, then chances are the gasket will last forever. IF you are feeling paranoid, then replace the head gasket with an AU head gasket and AU head bolts.

tommo74 · 22-02-2006, 03:27 PM

Exactly what he said..not to mention the head is **** on the ea...one of the areas ford never seemed to pick up on until the performance series(gt40p,v8's)
It amazes me that holden drivers still spend good money on vn heads but in a way I dont blame em...They were **** loads better than the ford design early on.

stockstandard · 22-02-2006, 03:41 PM

#1 reason why ford 6's have head gasket problems is poor maintenance. Keeping the cooling system full of quality coolant and not 3/4 full of tap water is often all it takes.

#2 reason is dodgy replacements. When the head gasket gets replaced, use new head bolts, machine the surfaces flat, and use a quality gasket.

Unfortunately not even ford seem to be able to get the last one right. I got an engine here that had a head gasket replaced at ford themselves 6 months ago that is leaking coolant out the side of the block.

Psycho Chicken · 22-02-2006, 05:45 PM

Another big issue was excessive casting sand still in the block from factory.

jpiez · 22-02-2006, 05:50 PM

try putting a colder thermostat in it... mine is 3degrees colder for memory n has worked a treat. car has done 320000km n stil goin strong!

xd5.8l · 22-02-2006, 06:19 PM

Lack of head riggidity seams to be a big problem. The BA's head is supposed to be more resistant to bowing. As stockstandard said its usually a matter of using quality coolant.

snapnscooter · 22-02-2006, 11:28 PM

I remember reading in an early 1989 Wheels Magazine, that Ford were blaming the 1988 centenary number plates blocking the lower radiator grille and causing overheating.
They couldn't/wouldn't admit that it was their fault.
Radiator shops confirm the casting sand thing. But the problem is deeper than just that. As 'EA2BA' says it's to do with the alloy head and cast iron block. Bad design!
Never had any trouble with the XD-E-F. Maybe they shoulda got Honda to design/engineer this one aswell.

stockstandard · 22-02-2006, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snapnscooter

I remember reading in an early 1989 Wheels Magazine, that Ford were blaming the 1988 centenary number plates blocking the lower radiator grille and causing overheating.
They couldn't/wouldn't admit that it was their fault.
Radiator shops confirm the casting sand thing. But the problem is deeper than just that. As 'EA2BA' says it's to do with the alloy head and cast iron block. Bad design!
Never had any trouble with the XD-E-F. Maybe they shoulda got Honda to design/engineer this one aswell.

There is nothing wrong with a alloy/iron engine - it just needs to be designed differently. Look at fords current range of engines.

Sand in the block (which was a problem with early e-series) will cause the engine to overheat which IF IGNORED BY OWNER will cause head gasket failure. The problem there is sand in the block - NOT the head gasket.

Will a properly made and maintained engine blow head gaskets regularly? No it wont. Its not bad design, its what has to the engine since it was designed which is the problem

snapnscooter · 23-02-2006, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stockstandard

There is nothing wrong with a alloy/iron engine - it just needs to be designed differently. Look at fords current range of engines.

Sand in the block (which was a problem with early e-series) will cause the engine to overheat which IF IGNORED BY OWNER will cause head gasket failure. The problem there is sand in the block - NOT the head gasket.

Will a properly made and maintained engine blow head gaskets regularly? No it wont. Its not bad design, its what has to the engine since it was designed which is the problem

I'm a little confused with your grammer and spelling (it doesn't make sense).
The problem still occurs in reconditioned 3.9's and 4.0 that have been acid dipped. AU series1 still have problems. Why do you think they went for a different head gasket with the AU series2. As I said BAD DESIGN!!!
Oh Yeah, I've worked for Ford for the last 25 years. I know the problem inside out..
Of course if you look after them properly you'll lower your chances of problems. But odds are it'll get you in the long run.

ON_DUBS · 23-02-2006, 10:16 AM

my ED is running 220,000kms and never had the head off.

its had quality coolant since its original purchase. recently replaced thermostat although it wasnt faulty.

Aaron_EF8 · 23-02-2006, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Never had any trouble with the XD-E-F. Maybe they shoulda got Honda to design/engineer this one aswell.

Your memory must be failing, Ford had to re-design the XD 1.5 alloy head for the XE, because they had so many failures in the 18 months the alloy head was out for, hence the 'Alloy Head II' in XE-XF's. Virtually every XD-XF alloy head has had the head removed for a gasket replacement or a new head.

Hunter · 23-02-2006, 03:40 PM

I'm no mechanic but bloody hell I have heard so many different explanations for why it happens but no conclusive proof yet!!!

My EL's gasket died almost exactly on 150,000... the mechanic who did mine told me it was because a head bolt had loosened and as a result the gasket followed with it.

But then everyone else has different ideas... I've heard poor maintenance, crap design, long inline block, crappy gaskets, crappy bolts, sand in the block, etc etc...

Does anyone have a real idea or any proof of any of these??? Wouldn't sand in the cooling system cause problems with water pumps as well????

brenx · 23-02-2006, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stockstandard

There is nothing wrong with a alloy/iron engine - it just needs to be designed differently. Look at fords current range of engines.

Spot on. My cleveland had alloy heads on an iron block. Not a single issue in 3 years.

My EL is on it's 3rd or 4th head gasket. The last one I replaced myself has been fantastic touch wood

brenx · 23-02-2006, 04:01 PM

Hunter : it's easy to varify the sand in the block. As you radiator tanks will be full of it. I know my EL's radiator tanks had about 2" of sand in the bottom.

I flushed the block and replaced the radiator.

Head bolts only break if you reuse them. Generally it's someone trying to retension a torque to yeild bolt. Which you definately shouldn't do. They stretch quite a bit from new.

Hunter · 23-02-2006, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brenx

Hunter : it's easy to varify the sand in the block. As you radiator tanks will be full of it. I know my EL's radiator tanks had about 2" of sand in the bottom.

I flushed the block and replaced the radiator.

Head bolts only break if you reuse them. Generally it's someone trying to retension a torque to yeild bolt. Which you definately shouldn't do. They stretch quite a bit from new.

I'm curious about this material found in the bottom of the radiators... could it not just be some form of corrosion?

The guy showed me the gasket and the bolts from my engine when he did it. The gasket didn't seem too bad - it was more of a slight dampness on one corner and coolant trickling into cyl #6. Bolts weren't reused either as this is the first time the gasket has gone.

brenx · 23-02-2006, 04:20 PM

No the same is from when they cast the blocks. It's part of the casting process. My EL is a 97mdl. The radiator was replaced in 98 due to being full of sand.

EBII Fairmont · 23-02-2006, 05:24 PM

When do they roughly cop the first one? At a 100,000km roughly?

I know mine has been tampered with. They didn't put the rocker cover seal back on so it looses a bit of oil. But i never have to top up, because it never gets anywhere near the point where it would need it.

brenx · 23-02-2006, 05:42 PM

My 1st was 110,000, 2nd was 140,000, 3rd at 190,000. 1st and 2nd were don't by mechanics. 3rd was done by me and its prooving faultless ;) Unlike the prior attempts.

INJECTED_250 · 23-02-2006, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snapnscooter

I'm a little confused with your grammer and spelling (it doesn't make sense).
The problem still occurs in reconditioned 3.9's and 4.0 that have been acid dipped. AU series1 still have problems. Why do you think they went for a different head gasket with the AU series2. As I said BAD DESIGN!!!
Oh Yeah, I've worked for Ford for the last 25 years. I know the problem inside out..
Of course if you look after them properly you'll lower your chances of problems. But odds are it'll get you in the long run.

Au series 1 &2 gaskets are the same... Au1's rairely have head gasket faults actually ive never seen an au leaking coolant down the side of the block so i dont know how u figure au 1's have problems with head gaskets and au2's dont when they run the same gasket/heads/blocks..

Racecraft · 23-02-2006, 06:50 PM

The poor design of the temperature sender doesn't help .. I always used to deck the block when the head went, it was the only way to make sure both surfaces were dead flat.

stockstandard · 23-02-2006, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snapnscooter

The problem still occurs in reconditioned 3.9's and 4.0 that have been acid dipped. AU series1 still have problems. Why do you think they went for a different head gasket with the AU series2. As I said BAD DESIGN!!!
Oh Yeah, I've worked for Ford for the last 25 years. I know the problem inside out..

IMO the problem is people cutting the cost of head gasket replacements. Acid dipping the block does nothing if you bolt a twisted head back on, reuse TTY bolts, then drop the engine back in with a 15yo radiator that is 70% blocked. Machine the parts, get new bolts, make sure everything else is good and there is no reason why it wont go for another 15 years and 200,000+ k's.

...but thats just in my experience. Dont know if it still counts because i dont work for ford and apparently cant spell.

snapnscooter · 24-02-2006, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stockstandard

IMO the problem is people cutting the cost of head gasket replacements. Acid dipping the block does nothing if you bolt a twisted head back on, reuse TTY bolts, then drop the engine back in with a 15yo radiator that is 70% blocked. Machine the parts, get new bolts, make sure everything else is good and there is no reason why it wont go for another 15 years and 200,000+ k's.

...but thats just in my experience. Dont know if it still counts because i dont work for ford

You can't beat experience and it's obvious you have plenty. Didn't mean to offend. I truly found your previous post difficult to understand.

Of course you use new head bolts, machine the head, deck the block, reco the radiator, install a new thermostat. I remember clearly that was some of the things Ford insisted on for warranty.
We had the blocks acid dipped to remove any trace of sand and corroded gasket stuck inside.That was back in the early 90's. There must be so many apprentices out there who cut their teeth on e'series head problems (not all casting sand related).
I've still seen the odd one come back...
I know if you look after them things might be ok. I is a certainty that you do have to pamper them compared to the old pushrod alloy head motors, at least 20-1 in the amount of problems cooling related.
I'm not trying to be a smartarse, I'm just writing down what I've seen.