New Fines and Government Big Mouths

[AWD Chaser]

Here is some interesting news I stumbled upon this morn:

Seven News: This week, double demerit points will also be brought in for repeat offenders...
"These are people who have been detected twice in one year exceeding the speed limit by 20 kilometres per hour, so they're certainly a group that we have to target," he said.

I have mixed feeling about this new fine/law

and this - I think this is a bit of an overstatement

Seven News:
Powerful cars

Transport Minister Paul Lucas says too many high-powered cars are shipped into the country

"I am concerned about increasing numbers of second-hand Japanese vehicles being imported into Australia - they've got to sell them out of Japan due to pollution rules," he said.

"You've seen them all hotted up, those Skylines, they're all over the place.

"Now they're legally imported, the Federal Government allow that. Young people in hotted up cars, particularly groups of them in cars, are a serious problem."

[ltd]

I can't stand this double dememrit nonsense.

It's like saying, "This weekend everyone gets double the sentence for murder"

Not only that, don't they also double the fine as well?
A mate who's a cop reckons that they do.

[DivHunter]

Yes, the only cars imported from Japan are skylines, every one of them have massive NISMO stickers which certainly make them far too powerful for Australian roads.

[4.9 EF Futura]

It does seem a bit rich now that the domestic manufacturers are selling 290kw and 297kw cars which weigh-in just short of 2tonnes. I mean, those HSVs are almost 400 horsepower!!! And they're worried about imports?!?

Double demerits i see the... um... merit in.... reasonably good incentive to not speed isnt it??

[Envious]

I agree with the double demerit points rule, especially over the 'high incident' periods. I know that it has me watching my speed a lot closer now...

[pauljh74]

Those sporty turbo Nissans are a real problem - I mean they are engineered as a sports car - to handle the power outputs they have. We can't have that /sarcasm

Alot of the Nissans imported - R33 Skylines for example - most are GTS-T models with 160 odd kw - about the same as a V6 Camry and not that much lighter - maybe 150kg. The GTR is an even more competent car with a handling package more than capable of controlling the power of the car. The problem is when people (with any car) do mods that aren't balanced - like increasing power markedly without upgrading other components like brakes or the drivetrain. Then the biggest problem is the driver. The "fooly sik" brigade don't do their reputation any favours

[LTDHO]

Originally Posted by Envious

I agree with the double demerit points rule, especially over the 'high incident' periods. I know that it has me watching my speed a lot closer now...

What makes speeding worst on a long weekend, it is just as dangerous everyday!

[Penelope Pitstop]

Well I for one hate this new rule but only because it means I have to behave myself. :yeees:

One more ticket or infringement for me of any sort and its bye bye license... :( Personally I blame FPV - hadn't had a ticket in years before I bought the GT and have now had 3 in the first 6 months of owning the car... clearly this is FPV's fault for making a car that is just way way too much fun.

[Envious]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

What makes speeding worst on a long weekend, it is just as dangerous everyday!

This is true, yes. But the reason it is "worse" is because of the volume of traffic on the roads over the long weekend.

[Penelope Pitstop]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

What makes speeding worst on a long weekend, it is just as dangerous everyday!

True, but I think the theory is that there is more people on the road travelling and taking advantage of the extended break from work.

More People = More Risk.


**** Great Minds Envious - we posted at the same time

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by pauljh74

Those sporty turbo Nissans are a real problem - I mean they are engineered as a sports car - to handle the power outputs they have. We can't have that /sarcasm

Alot of the Nissans imported - R33 Skylines for example - most are GTS-T models with 160 odd kw - about the same as a V6 Camry and not that much lighter - maybe 150kg. The GTR is an even more competent car with a handling package more than capable of controlling the power of the car. The problem is when people (with any car) do mods that aren't balanced - like increasing power markedly without upgrading other components like brakes or the drivetrain. Then the biggest problem is the driver. The "fooly sik" brigade don't do their reputation any favours

Bingo! How the government can say that every hotted up car is a serious problem is beyond me. I don't think they have ever accepted that there are responsible car enthusiasts out there, who get branded because of other peoples actions.

[Lowndes2b1]

At least it has people aware of what the consequences are if you are court speeding. I guess we all think I'm only a couple of k over, it doesn't matter, but with the chance of losing twice as many points as normal and an even bigger fine, it might change your mind.

With the amount of deaths recently and all involving speed, I think it is a good idea. For those who don't like the idea, easy way around it is NOT TO SPEED!!

And just for the record, I have a BA GT MKII, and they are just as much fun to drive when doing the speed limit.

[rapidxr6]

I'd be much happier if they put their resources in defecting 1/2 of the ИИИИ boxes on the road. i saw a 120y datsun the otherday, 3 kids in the back, no seatbelts, and the drivers rear door was tied up with a bit of rope to keep it shut, so much smoke its not funny and rust holes so big you could near fit your head into them. The negligence of some drives me insane.
Have a great weekend with fuel price rises and double demerits.

*FREE* to a good home, 1 stuffed neck, bulged disc and all. (pleeaase)

[4.9 EF Futura]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

What makes speeding worst on a long weekend, it is just as dangerous everyday!

Look at the road toll stats:

http://www.atsb.gov.au/road/statisti...s_periods.aspx

The NSW example alone shows that 40% of fatalities have speed as a contributing factor :http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/roadsafety...ads/rs2010.pdf

Now, national road toll around 1600 people per annum, or 30.7 per week (7 day period), look at the national figures for easter and, for example, 2005 saw 26 people die over the 4 day period. If this were the average, the annual national road toll would be around 2,375 people.

Christmas/New Year period is much much worse. But still goes to show that statisically, easter is a more dangerous time to be on the road than during an 'average' part of the year.

[Envious]

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

Look at the road toll stats:

http://www.atsb.gov.au/road/statisti...s_periods.aspx

The NSW example alone shows that 40% of fatalities have speed as a contributing factor :http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/roadsafety...ads/rs2010.pdf

Now, national road toll around 1600 people per annum, or 30.7 per week (7 day period), look at the national figures for easter and, for example, 2005 saw 26 people die over the 4 day period. If this were the average, the annual national road toll would be around 2,375 people.

Christmas/New Year period is much much worse. But still goes to show that statisically, easter is a more dangerous time to be on the road than during an 'average' part of the year.

What he said...lol

[[Tonko]]

fuel prices,( nearly $1.40/litre) here double demerit points and fines... HAPPY EASTER

[TheSneakiness]

Originally Posted by pauljh74

GTS-T models with 160 odd kw - about the same as a V6 Camry

The latest V6 Camry has 145kw (Sportivo, although I hardly see how it's sporty in the first place)...

[Envious]

hahah just passed 2 speed traps within 300meters of eachother...had to laugh.

[xbgs351]

It is ridiculously easy to lose your licence in NSW with double demerits. If you get caught twice in three years, going over the speed limit by less than 15 km/h, you have lost your licence.

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/rulesregul...nts/index.html

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/cgi-bin/in...mitButton.y=10

Double demerits will result in far more unlicenced drivers on our roads and that is something that will make our roads far more dangerous.

[Kenster]

hmm there are more powerful cars which are made in Australia not only Japan the skyline may be fast but nothing can keep up with a v8 when it has been done up the best performance in it

[Keepleft]

JUST remember, these are QLD penalities alone, the results which arrived from the recent organised QLD road safety summit discussed here earlier.

Citing RTA detail has no bearing on QLD detail.

[Iphido]

Double demerits is a prejudicial system that penalises those poor souls who *HAVE* to work during holiday periods, shift workers, taxi drivers, couriers etc. It a tax and a burden on those hard working people to catch those lucky sods who have holidays and go kill themselves.

The reason there are more accidents is that there is more traffic on the road. But this new traffic is often inexperienced city/suburbanites (not just young people generally) who take long trips and wind up dead. Unfamiliar roads, lapse skills, long hours and often poor conditions (like night, dawn, dusk, rain, fog) that these drivers don't normally contend with.

I'm sick of double demerits. They are growing in length. First it was a few special times, then they extend them, by 2010 it will be double demerits almost continuously. And if you get booked once your on double demerits anyway.

Instead of confusing the state with complex math and red tape why don't they just halve the number of points we get on our licence? Why because that would cause uproar!!

1/2 point for P platers 6 points for the rest of us. Why won't they just tell the public what’s really happening?

It a sad and pathetic band-aid attempt by the incompetent to deal with a serious problem, the mess that is our road systems.

We still don't have a proper national highway with divided road between all capitals (due 1988?). Major city and rural arterial routes a falling apart! They are worse than dirt roads! Thats if they are there at all or not delayed 20 years later. We have the roads that would disgrace a 3rd world developing African nation, and matching awful, incompetent bureaucrats.

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by Iphido

We still don't have a proper national highway with divided road between all capitals (due 1988?). Major city and rural arterial routes a falling apart! They are worse than dirt roads! Thats if they are there at all or not delayed 20 years later. We have the roads that would disgrace a 3rd world developing African nation, and matching awful, incompetent bureaucrats.

Sure, and many rural roads should be returned to gravel, the nation should not have to keep these up to standard. Arguments both ways.

That said, 'roads' are simply not the great political issue often made out to be, they have to compete with all other government portfolios.

Don't like how things are run *in your state* DON'T vote for em next time.

[4.9 EF Futura]

Originally Posted by Iphido

Double demerits is a prejudicial system that penalises those poor souls who *HAVE* to work during holiday periods, shift workers, taxi drivers, couriers etc. It a tax and a burden on those hard working people to catch those lucky sods who have holidays and go kill themselves.

The reason there are more accidents is that there is more traffic on the road. But this new traffic is often inexperienced city/suburbanites (not just young people generally) who take long trips and wind up dead. Unfamiliar roads, lapse skills, long hours and often poor conditions (like night, dawn, dusk, rain, fog) that these drivers don't normally contend with.

I'm sick of double demerits. They are growing in length. First it was a few special times, then they extend them, by 2010 it will be double demerits almost continuously. And if you get booked once your on double demerits anyway.

Instead of confusing the state with complex math and red tape why don't they just halve the number of points we get on our licence? Why because that would cause uproar!!

1/2 point for P platers 6 points for the rest of us. Why won't they just tell the public what’s really happening?

It a sad and pathetic band-aid attempt by the incompetent to deal with a serious problem, the mess that is our road systems.

We still don't have a proper national highway with divided road between all capitals (due 1988?). Major city and rural arterial routes a falling apart! They are worse than dirt roads! Thats if they are there at all or not delayed 20 years later. We have the roads that would disgrace a 3rd world developing African nation, and matching awful, incompetent bureaucrats.

This sounds like the ranting of someone who got done speeding on their way to work one easter weekend.

The theory is fairly simple. If you are not speeding, double demerits mean nothing. Therefore to inverse that point - you are basically suggesting you should be allowed to drive wherever you want at whatever speed you want. If that is representative of your driving attitude then i'd be happy to see you lose your licence.

They want people to stop speeding. Why is that so hard to understand?!?!?

Your final comment regarding developing countries in africa is verging on insulting - to those nations and to ours.

Dont speed and have a happy easter.

[LTDHO]

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

Look at the road toll stats:

http://www.atsb.gov.au/road/statisti...s_periods.aspx

The NSW example alone shows that 40% of fatalities have speed as a contributing factor :http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/roadsafety...ads/rs2010.pdf

Now, national road toll around 1600 people per annum, or 30.7 per week (7 day period), look at the national figures for easter and, for example, 2005 saw 26 people die over the 4 day period. If this were the average, the annual national road toll would be around 2,375 people.

Christmas/New Year period is much much worse. But still goes to show that statisically, easter is a more dangerous time to be on the road than during an 'average' part of the year.

So this proves that double points doesn't help.
What caused the other 60% of road deaths?
Of the 40% what speed and how did it contribute? ie drunk and speeding.
From working in the motor accident field, I know speed is a minor problem.

[4.9 EF Futura]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

From working in the motor accident field, I know speed is a minor problem.

Lol, appears im digging myself a hole then... oh well, wouldnt be the first time. In principle i agree with what you're saying... i guess im making an effort to rationalise what the governments are attempting....

So lets work on the 40% speed related assumption... im sure you're aware there isnt a great break up of this data...

But let's say that by introducing double demerits and speed trap blitz', you can reduce half of that 40%.... you then go from 26 to 21 drivers killed over the weekend, 5 of whos death will be attributed to speed (as opposed to 10)...

Now i'd argue that if one life can be saved, its worth it... i imagine if the government/police can reduce the road toll by a handful of people then they can probably sell the idea...

That's not a great explanation... hope im making some sense....

[xbgs351]

Originally Posted by Keepleft

JUST remember, these are QLD penalities alone, the results which arrived from the recent organised QLD road safety summit discussed here earlier.

Citing RTA detail has no bearing on QLD detail.

RTA details are important, because NSW was the state that first introduced the concept of double demerits. Now we are seeing the other states follow. Just like the recent speed limit reductions, it is predominately a case of being seen to do something, without actually doing anything of consequence.

[DJL351]

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

But let's say that by introducing double demerits and speed trap blitz', you can reduce half of that 40%.... you then go from 26 to 21 drivers killed over the weekend, 5 of whos death will be attributed to speed (as opposed to 10)...

Now i'd argue that if one life can be saved, its worth it... i imagine if the government/police can reduce the road toll by a handful of people then they can probably sell the idea...

That's not a great explanation... hope im making some sense....

But what if they got out there and did some "Police Work"! :
I would rather see police out, driving on the roads, not only getting those that speed
but those clowns that do other things that cause the four car pile-up behind them.
(changing lane with no indication etc)

The bit I like is the "Speed was an issue" or "Speed Kills"..... no..... it's the sudden stop that kills!
If a car is moving, as little as 40kph, and it hits somthing.... speed was a "factor" in that crash.
Did it cause the crash.... may be, may be not!

I have had my share of tickets from the "WA Mak'n Money" Department....
Speeding is an issue, yes for sure, anyone that chooses to do 80kph in a 50 zone can be shot.
But how does getting done for as little as 5kph over the limit help.
I've seen people drive with their heads down, more interested on watching the speedo
than to watch where they are going.... That, to me is causing more problems than it is solving.

D:

[EF, What else?]

Who, this Friday, will get behind the wheel of their car and consiously think "Double Demerit Points", better slow down. And if you do, who will forgot 200metres down the road. And if you do slow down because of the Double Demerit points, shouldn't you be under the speed limit at all times anyway

[Envious]

Ive got my missus reminding me, cause i asked her to..

Its really simple, they should even have an ad with the slogan. "Don't want to feel the pain of Double Demerit Points this Easter ? DON'T SPEED !! "