Extractors

[JMO]

I have a set of press bent extractors (mandrel would of been nicer but I got them cheap ). Don't know the brand but they are tri-y (3-2-1).

They are not ceramic coated, so my question is would the heat they generate have a negative impact on anything or defeat the purpose of installing them anyway?

While I'm asking, how much if a negative is it to have press bent instead of mandrel bent?

I thought I'd ask before I paint and install them

Cheers.

[broken_suave]

They're truly terrible, not worth having, infact they're not worth a cent. I'll dispose of them for you :P

[mik]

they are probably still an improvement on the standard manifold , but don`t make as many ponies as mandrel bent would be my guess, they do give off a bit of heat close to the pinion on the steering rack on mine if memory serves correctly , have been meaning to put a shield on it , just can`t get motivated latley :( ,12 months no ill effects so far if thats any use to you.

[The Monty]

It will heat up the engine bay but be aware that Pacemaker will not wrranty anything with heatsheilding, so the heat sheilding mustnt be so good for aftermarket extractors.

[ten[A]cio[U]s]

Press bent is fine. If your chasing 500hp mendral is the go. Press bent is great for these engines as you still get a decent amount of back pressure.

Defiantly worth installing them over the factory manifold.

[The Monty]

Why the hell would you want a lot of backpressure? I got told not to go three inch as I would have no backpressure.

[ten[A]cio[U]s]

I guess you didnt listen then? Its your choice what you do but its still good to have some sort of pressure. I drove the car with a cat back on and it ran like and gutless, put the 2 1/4 on and it felt far better.

If your chasing big number by all means go medrel, if your just after some more punch and better economy, press bent if fine.

[JMO]

Thanks for the info guys So a heatshield wouldn't be worth the time/money/effort? Mik's comment has me little iffy about the pinion.

[The Monty]

Originally Posted by crazy-au

I guess you didnt listen then? Its your choice what you do but its still good to have some sort of pressure. I drove the car with a cat back on and it ran like and gutless, put the 2 1/4 on and it felt far better.

If your chasing big number by all means go medrel, if your just after some more punch and better economy, press bent if fine.

Of course I didnt listen. Lets see, hmmmm. Fastest B series guys mostly run a collective flow of 3.18 inches ( twin 2 1/4), fastest E series mostly run 3 inches, Stav and Stiddy both run 3 inches (two of the fastest AU's). I went from 15.3 to 14.9's with a three inch. Gee I really miss all that backpressure.

[The Monty]

I run Pacie comps with no heat shield, and its fine, there are no negative effects.

[JMO]

^Mine aren't ceramic coated either, does that make a difference. I know pacies are usually ceramic coated.

[broken_suave]

As far as I was aware, pacies arent ceramic coated, just a 'heat proof' paint. However many people get them ceramic coated, so its quite common to see ceramic coated pacies. Mind you, is there an option to buy them already ceramic coated? I seem to remember there is?

[The Monty]

Im pretty sure there is.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by The Monty

Of course I didnt listen. Lets see, hmmmm. Fastest B series guys mostly run a collective flow of 3.18 inches ( twin 2 1/4), fastest E series mostly run 3 inches, Stav and Stiddy both run 3 inches (two of the fastest AU's). I went from 15.3 to 14.9's with a three inch. Gee I really miss all that backpressure.

Your improvement likely had nothing to do with the increase in pipe diameter, but everything to do with better quality and less restrictive mufflers.

For example, my old XH yoot (AU engine) ran 14.4 @ 97mph with no traction, and it produced 175rwkw on 2 different dynos.
It had a press bent 2.5" exhaust, cat, decent muffler, and a hot dog.

Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with a 3" system if that's what you want, but don't think it's going to be better than an equivalent 2.5" system on a 4L with less than ~180rwkw or so.

As for the OP, press bent will be fine for a mild engine. Heat is something to consider, and some items can be heat wrapped.
Don't wrap the headers though.

[The Monty]

Just for comparisons sake, old muffler was Lukey, new one was Redback.

[Fordfan4u]

You produced 175rwkw on 2 different dynos with a 2.5in exhaust system. With a quality 3inch with quality mufflers you would have made more than 175rwkw.
The over all diameter of the 3inch will raise your powerband slightly with a noticeable increase in the upper rpm range.
Anyway this argument has been done to death, it seems like all the people with 3inch systems are more than happy and people with the 2.5inch systems well meh, good luck to them.
It seems to me that alot of people on this forum, read something and take it in concrete, scared to try something new. 2.5inch is the best for an I6, dont bother with a 3inch, why? it wont work aswell, why? because so and so said, why? because it just doesnt make sence to them, so its wrong! bah.
Don't use those extractors because you wont get the 1500rwkw gain without ceramic coating because so and so said.

I've been in stiddy's car at Oran Park after a few laps and playing silly buggers, we had close to 600*C and he's got heat sheilds. That car gets driven and driven hard and he still laughs at you lot when I mention the forums.
If its a daily driver, not a car your seriously going to race or anything, use whichever headers you want, heat wrap, ceramic coating, meh, just throw your headers on and be happy.

Fordfan

[JMO]

Sorry for he noob question Sox. What is a mild engine? :P

[Fordfan4u]

Mild engine = extractors, exhaust, intake, cam, and maybe some head work/porting and a tune.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by Fordfan4u

You produced 175rwkw on 2 different dynos with a 2.5in exhaust system. With a quality 3inch with quality mufflers you would have made more than 175rwkw.

Maybe, maybe not.
Based on the breathing ability of my engine I suspect there would be a small increase in power. Perhaps as much as 5kw. Unfortunately there is the issue of noise (and cost to a lesser extent) to deal with. I like my cars very quiet and smaller pipes are easier to deal with. Hence why I chose a 2.5" system.

The over all diameter of the 3inch will raise your powerband slightly with a noticeable increase in the upper rpm range.

Personally I don't think it would be noticeable. I know I can't ever reliably feel a ~5kw increase. Though it would offer a few kw on the dyno, and perhaps a few hundreths of a second on the drag strip.

Anyway this argument has been done to death, it seems like all the people with 3inch systems are more than happy and people with the 2.5inch systems well meh, good luck to them.

Same goes to the guys with 3", good luck to them. What you need to remember is there is little difference between them on our 4L engines unless we're chasing very big numbers.

It seems to me that alot of people on this forum, read something and take it in concrete, scared to try something new. 2.5inch is the best for an I6, dont bother with a 3inch, why? it wont work aswell, why? because so and so said, why? because it just doesnt make sence to them, so its wrong! bah.

I'm sure that does apply to some people, but that goes both ways. The guys with 3" systems feel that it is the best and no one should use 2.5".

Reality is, neither is true. You simply use what works best for the given application. There is no single best solution.

On a 4L making less than 150rwkw 2.5" is bucket loads and going bigger is just a waste of money and extra noise for nothing.
Between 150rwkw and 175rwkw either is a good choice and is really dependant on noise levels and budget.
Above 180rwkw a 3" system is probably the logical choice.

Don't use those extractors because you wont get the 1500rwkw gain without ceramic coating because so and so said.
I've been in stiddy's car at Oran Park after a few laps and playing silly buggers, we had close to 600*C and he's got heat sheilds. That car gets driven and driven hard and he still laughs at you lot when I mention the forums.

Good to see the forums can make some ones day brighter.

If its a daily driver, not a car your seriously going to race or anything, use whichever headers you want, heat wrap, ceramic coating, meh, just throw your headers on and be happy.

Fordfan

Agreed, except for heat wrapping the headers, that just makes them fall apart prematurely.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by JMO

Sorry for he noob question Sox. What is a mild engine? :P

An engine in a mild state of tune.

Mild might mean a slightly larger than standard lift cam, extractors, sports exhaust, and maybe some minor intake mods like a larger snorkel. Anything less than around 150rwkw is mild IMO.

Heavily modified is same as above but a larger lift cam, head porting, more C/R and maybe ECU mods. Power between 150 and 200rwkw,

Wild is the above with N20 or supercharging or turbo charging, and the heavily modified bottom end to match. Power well above 200rwkw.

All IMO of course.

[JMO]

ok. Thanks. I'd guess mine is 'mild'. I have a 3" intake, high flow cat and 2.5" exhaust. Not exactly heavy or wild :P

I hope these extractors give it a nice little boost

I don't think that a tune or cam/head work would do much for daily driving
or would it.... :



While on the topic of heat wrap. What things should I look at in particular to cover up?

[Fordfan4u]

Sox I see and totally understand your points, agree somewhat.
But I don't see where your pulling these rwkw figures from to match which exhaust.
2.5in exhaust are fine, and will do the job. At almost any power, whos to say its 180rwkw? 3inch just picks up a noticeable amount of power and torque though the mid-high rev range. MORE than 5rwkw.
Monty is prime example of a few 10th's over the 1/4. To me thats a noticeable gain, and you need more than 5rwkw to pick up a few 10ths.
People with all different kinds of power ranges that had 2.5inch and went to 3inch are saying YES dont use a 2.5inch because we had a 2.5inch system, upgraded to a 3inch system and we pulled better numbers on the dyno and drag strip.
That car making 150rwkw with a 2.5inch system, if changed to a 3inch system WILL make more power.. no doubt about it. More than 5rwkw.
Like you said, it comes down to the individual application its going to be used for. You want a 2.5inch because you make the power you want at a reasonable noise level.


You example of heavily modified is better suited to mild/warm.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by Fordfan4u

Sox I see and totally understand your points, agree somewhat.
But I don't see where your pulling these rwkw figures from to match which exhaust.

Just guestimates from my bum, but probably near enough.

2.5in exhaust are fine, and will do the job. At almost any power, whos to say its 180rwkw? 3inch just picks up a noticeable amount of power and torque though the mid-high rev range. MORE than 5rwkw.

Fair enough, I don't agree at power levels under 180rwkw or so.
We'll agree to disagree.

Monty is prime example of a few 10th's over the 1/4. To me thats a noticeable gain, and you need more than 5rwkw to pick up a few 10ths.

Very true, you need more like 15-20kw at that level.
However, as I already mentioned, I don't believe that 'Montys' gain came from the increase in pipe diameter. Rather it came from better quality, hence free-er flowing mufflers.

The other thing to consider is the runs weren't back to back on the same day under the exact same conditions. So things like a few degrees decrease in air temp will already drop ET's. Same goes for traction. None of these tests are conclusive proof that the bigger system is making any significant improvement.
In any case, terminal speed is actually a better indicator of power as that stays much the same under most launch conditions.

People with all different kinds of power ranges that had 2.5inch and went to 3inch are saying YES dont use a 2.5inch because we had a 2.5inch system, upgraded to a 3inch system and we pulled better numbers on the dyno and drag strip.

Yep, and all due to better mufflers IMO, not the larger pipe diameter.

That car making 150rwkw with a 2.5inch system, if changed to a 3inch system WILL make more power.. no doubt about it. More than 5rwkw.

I don't agree, if all things are equal.

Like you said, it comes down to the individual application its going to be used for. You want a 2.5inch because you make the power you want at a reasonable noise level.

Just to summarise, the mufflers are the most restrictive part of an exhaust system, not the pipe.
Even just average exhaust systems will only rob an engine of 10-15kw or so, what makes you think going from a decent 2.5" to a decent 3" system is going to show more than 5kw increase at around the 180kw range.
Food for thought.

You example of heavily modified is better suited to mild/warm.

Yeh whatever, I just plucked those figures from the air. It's near enough though.

[Fordfan4u]

This could go on all day. Basically the conclusion is, you can use either exhaust. They will both give you gains, both are better than the stock system. It really comes down to what the individual wants.
Im happy to leave it at that lol.
Sox?

For the record I certainly dont think you're wrong. Just dont agree with 'some' of what you have said. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer.

cheers,
Fordfan

[Sox]

Originally Posted by Fordfan4u

This could go on all day. Basically the conclusion is, you can use either exhaust. They will both give you gains, both are better than the stock system. It really comes down to what the individual wants.
Im happy to leave it at that lol.
Sox?

For the record I certainly dont think you're wrong. Just dont agree with 'some' of what you have said. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer.

Sounds good to me. :

[The Monty]

Just to clear one or two things up.
The 3 inch system I have is probably one of the worst sounding exhaust Ive heard. At idle it sounds freaking awesome, up to 2000rpm is even ok. You get over that and it starts getting loud. You get over 5 and its insane. Over 6 and you need earplugs.
I loved my Lukey, that was the best sounding system Ive heard.
As for my times, the times with the old exhaust were done in Winter. RA, track temp, and ambient temp were all pretty low, I think RA's were in the negatives. The 14.9's were done on a warmer night in spring.
I did change the cat and extracors as well, but I think that the three inch was still the better option for ME, as Ill probably end up on boost in the years to come.
And tyres were the same, Nexcen N3000's, through my awesome single spinner with 3.08 gears and no stall, except for the 14's I had to let the pressure down to mid-high 20's as I just could not get grip no matter what I tried. It was never a problem before with the 2.5 incher.
MPH was up around 2-2.5, and my 60 ft dropped around .1 and the 1/8th mile was a hell of a lot quicker.
As for whats better, Id say whatever suits what you need. For me its the 3 inch, and I like my decision. My whole point from my first post before I got flamed (not by you sox) was that not everything you get told is true. I was told I shouldnt have a three inch as my times would blow out, the car would be undriveable, no backpressure, yadayadayada. I took the timeslips back to the shop that done it, and they were blown away.

[Stav]

Hahah..didnt hear a peep from me lol..All I have to add is that my crushed cat doesnt help the cause either..

[The Monty]

Miao....

Go 4 inch.

[JMO]

Originally Posted by JMO

While on the topic of heat wrap. What things should I look at in particular to cover up?

Anyone? lol

[Windsor220]

I personally think you'll be right in regards to heat. I've put on extractors on a number of falcons without covering up anything before and never had any problems.