Road Rules - Who is in the wrong?

[BA-Fan]

[dave351cid]

(1) car A would be in the wrong , not changing lanes safely.

(2) not sure i get it properly but i think car B would have to give way to all oncoming trafic before crossing the lanes.

[jaydee]

1st scenario, depends on how much distance was travelled before car A braked causing B to run into the back of him. If was almost instantanious then in most cases B wouldn't be charged.

2nd scenario, car A has to give way to car B.

At least that the rules in WA.

[BA-Fan]

Originally Posted by dave351cid

(1) car A would be in the wrong , not changing lanes safely.

(2) not sure i get it properly but i think car B would have to give way to all oncoming trafic before crossing the lanes.

Car B did give way to Car A during the Turn. When the Turn was being made there was no traffic in the new lane. Car A full throttled it into Car B after Car B was halfway through the turn.

[blownv8au]

no.1 car A is at fault. no.2 car B should have waited until intersection was clear to proceed not assuming car A was taking turn.

[BA-Fan]

2. Car B took the turn when no traffic was moving. Car A moved out of the traffic after Car B had already taken the turn.

[rancidpunx]

No. 1, Car A is in the wrong. Dangerous driving and changing lane with undue care.
No. 2, this depends on the intersection. Without lights, then car B has to wait and give way to car A (assuming both cars arrive at the turn around the same time.) If Car A has to brake then Car B is in the wrong. However if there are lights then car A could turn left at any time with care (if there is no light and a left turn lane), however that gives right of way to car b. If there is a light (and its green for car a) then car B gives way to car A as per the no light give way rules. Usually car B will have right turn red light briefly before being allowed to cross.

[Yaw]

1. Car A has changed lanes without giving way, plain and simple.

2. More information needed.
If car A turning left is in a slip lane as your diagram would suggest (ie Turn left anytime with care) car A would be in the wrong.
However if a straightford intersection a lot is going to depend on the point of impact. If car a was to hit car B around the front guard, that would suggest car A had right of way, If the impact was towards the middle or rear of car B it would be more likley car B should have given way to Car A which would prove that car b was already estabilshed in the intersection. Possible arguments for Contributing Negligence.

[Kryton]

car A in both instances.

[BA-Fan]

Scenario 2 Car B was deemed in the wrong (I disagree)

Was hit on the front left fender.

[rns-11z]

always give way to your right? is that what your taught during your learners. and going into roundabouts or intersections always give way to the right

[prydey]

Originally Posted by davway

car A in both instances.

agreed. pretty clear cut too!!

[GT-E]

Originally Posted by rns-11z

always give way to your right? is that what your taught during your learners. and going into roundabouts or intersections always give way to the right

The post above is EXACTLY why we need to sit a knowladge test and driveing test every 5 years.
You DO NOT give way to the right in roundabouts, but GIVE WAY TO TRAFFIC IN THE ROUNDABOUT.

Also Car B is the one at fault for not giving way to oncoming traffic when turning.

[burnz]

depends on what state you live
in vic car "b" has right of way, in nsw car "a" has right of way. (2/pic)
1/ pic as everyone stated "a" failed to give way and due caution when lane change.

[GT-E]

In 1999 they brought in the national road rules and this cleared up all this confusion.
Most rules are the same in each state, aside from local quirks like VIC turn right from the left lane rule.

[BA-Fan]

In figure 2:

Would this also mean that if CAR A was actually stopped on the side of the road close to an intersection it could pull out FULL THROTTLE at any time through the intersection no matter what cars were already taking the corner there?

[Pinch]

Car A in scenario 1, although in a recent thread many said it was black and white, "regarless what the car in front does the car running into the back of another will always be deemed at fault". I disagree, so does the statutes and case law and on the info in this case car A had made an unsafe lane chnage without giving way. The amount of time Car A and B were in the same lane before the collision could be an issue though. In reality the ability of Car B to slow down would be the determining factor (could very likely be they didn't have that ability).

Scenario 2 - depends on what was said earlier, was it a straight intersection, or a 'left turn with care" one - if the latter this usually involves crossing give way lines in which Car A gives way to Car B. Otherwise at a standard intersection Car B gives way in all circumstances. It would end up being like those cases where cars indicate left and then change their mind and goes straight - a car that subsequently pulls out in front of the car now continuing straight is deemed in the wrong even though they were acting on the indication of the other. Usually though insurances co's argue contributory negligence and there is apportionment of liability.

rns-11z - give way to right rule no longer applies in NSW or any other jurisdiction (I think all states) that adopt the Uniform Australian Road Rules into'd in 1999. Its simply a first on the roundabout has right of way - be they on the left or right of approaching traffic. Give way to traffic already on the roundabout - thats it. Yeah I know that especially on small suburban roundabouts you can arrive at the same time. Any Tom Dick or Harry knows this, unless they work for some regulatory body. There are no longer any rules covering this "implausible" scenario apparently. I have written to the NSW RTA, Ministry of Transport, NRMA among others about this but they all say the only rule is to give way to those already on the roundabout - you do not give way to your right anymore.

I deduce from this that on the small suburban roundabouts the rules where two approach at the same time (not implausible at all on the small roundabouts) are thus defined by power-to-weight ratios... and the size of your kahuna's! Awesome work there guys!

Away from roundabouts though I think in the absence of any other traffic control at all, then you give way to your right.

[BA-Fan]

Pinch, Interesting read there, Ill refer to my previous question:

Originally Posted by SM0KED

In figure 2:

Would this also mean that if CAR A was actually stopped on the side of the road close to an intersection it could pull out FULL THROTTLE at any time through the intersection no matter what cars were already taking the corner there?

[sgt_doofey]

Originally Posted by SM0KED

Pinch, Interesting read there, Ill refer to my previous question:

Yes. Another one for more testing here by the looks of the replies in this thread. http://www.raa.com.au/page.asp?TerID=192

Originally Posted by Pinch

Otherwise at a standard intersection Car B gives way in all circumstances.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by SM0KED

In figure 2:

Would this also mean that if CAR A was actually stopped on the side of the road close to an intersection it could pull out FULL THROTTLE at any time through the intersection no matter what cars were already taking the corner there?

car "B" failed to give way!!

[prydey]

pic 1 - according to the arrow, car a veered over 2 lanes of traffic. this is called lane hopping and is illegal, regardless of whether car b hit it in the rear.

pic 2 - this pic isn't real clear. i assumed it was a 'turn left with care' scenario. if not, then yes, car A has right of way.

Originally Posted by GT-E

The post above is EXACTLY why we need to sit a knowladge test and driveing test every 5 years. You DO NOT give way to the right in roundabouts, but GIVE WAY TO TRAFFIC IN THE ROUNDABOUT.

it's pretty much the same thing isn't it?!! when do you give way to a car on your left at a roundabout? any car that you are required to give way to, will be coming from the right.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by prydey

it's pretty much the same thing isn't it?!! when do you give way to a car on your left at a roundabout? any car that you are required to give way to, will be coming from the right.

when the car entered the round about first on the left, are you going to drill it in the side or yeald??

[GT-E]

Originally Posted by SM0KED

In figure 2:

Would this also mean that if CAR A was actually stopped on the side of the road close to an intersection it could pull out FULL THROTTLE at any time through the intersection no matter what cars were already taking the corner there?

No car A would be at fault for not leaving the kerb with caution.

[BA-Fan]

Originally Posted by GT-E

No car A would be at fault for not leaving the kerb with caution.

So as you have said (Not having a go at all) just getting my head around this:

- If you are stopped on the side of the road, you must leave a kerb with caution.
- If you are stopped in traffic you don't have to leave that lane with any caution.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by burnz

when the car entered the round about first on the left, are you going to drill it in the side or yeald??

if i'm close enough to drill it in the side, then there's a good chance i was on the roundabout 1st!!

rules only get changed becuase it seems the generations these days need every last thing spelled out for them. common sense packed up and left long ago.

[sgt_doofey]

http://www.ntc.gov.au/filemedia/Repo...2009_final.pdf
Page 92

(5) If the driver is turning right, the driver must give way to:
(a) any vehicle approaching from the right, unless a stop
sign, stop line, give way sign or give way line applies to
the driver of the approaching vehicle; and
(b) any oncoming vehicle that is going straight ahead or
turning left at the intersection, unless:
(i) a stop sign, stop line, give way sign or give way
line applies to the driver of the oncoming vehicle;
or
(ii) the oncoming vehicle is turning left using a slip
lane; and
(c) any pedestrian at or near the intersection who is crossing the road the driver is entering.


... but, if taking off from the curb ...

74 Giving way when entering a road from a road-
related area or adjacent land

(1) A driver entering a road from a road-related area, or
adjacent land, without traffic lights or a stop sign, stop line,
give way sign or give way line must give way to:
(a) any vehicle travelling on the road or turning into the
road (except a vehicle turning right into the road from a
road-related area or adjacent land); and
(b) any pedestrian on the road; and
(c) any vehicle or pedestrian on any road-related area that
the driver crosses to enter the road; and

Rule 74(1)(d)
(d) for a driver entering the road from a road-related area: substituted by 4th
pkg, Item 21
(i) any pedestrian on the road-related area; and
(ii) any other vehicle ahead of the driver’s vehicle or
approaching from the left or right.

[Fireblade]

Car A in both instances, first one is just plain dangerous and the second one is just plain stupidity, you have to give way to your right.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by prydey

if i'm close enough to drill it in the side, then there's a good chance i was on the roundabout 1st!!

rules only get changed becuase it seems the generations these days need every last thing spelled out for them. common sense packed up and left long ago.

thats true,
i wonder how many truck drivers have had cars drive under the trailer because they beleive they have the right of way.(give way to right additude)

as is the truck is 1st on, but slow and long.

[Fireblade]

If you drive under a truck it comes under plain stupidity, how can you not see something that huge and not give way, with trucks its more just common sense than just knowing road rules.

[burnz]

true enough, too many times ive seen car toot at truck entering the roundabout first
and the car second because they seem to think that the truck fail to give way,
when in fact the car must giveway.