Infringement question ???

gtfpv · 09-04-2012, 03:39 AM

Hi I got booked tonight off the highway patrol for crossing an unbroken white line at an intersection to go into a right hand turn lane . I entered the lane a bit late where the line was unbroken . Pleaded with the officer as I was the only car on the road at the time to let me off with a warning as I wasn't speeding and did not impede any traffic . He declined and said its his job to book me for braking the law . I wasn't impressed . It's the 1st time in 18 years I've been booked . Anyhow . He did not give me any paper work , he just handed my licence back and said I'd receive the infringement in the mail and lose 3 points . I thought they had to hand you the written infringement on the spot . Is this not the case ?

Cúl-Báire · 09-04-2012, 04:02 AM

I think it's dependant on what state you are in; I've had both fines issued by the officer (in qld), and sent out in the mail after being pulled over (vic); I've also been lucky enough to be pulled over, being told I am being given an infringement and never recieved the paperwork (vic).

Who knows, the officer may get back to the station and have a change of heart. Seems like a harsh panelty given the situation above though. Given it's the first infringement in 18 years, you might get off with a letter explaining how you're a fantastic driver, and it wont happen again, etc... (does that still happen?)

Cúl-Báire · 09-04-2012, 04:03 AM

Edit - Double Post

**Dave R** · 09-04-2012, 05:00 AM

A friend of mine was booked in Sydney last year, no paperwork on the spot but it came in the mail later on. I believe because you have a good driving record, you can apply for it to be passed off as a warning - check the SDRO website.

2011G6E · 09-04-2012, 05:04 AM

Oh dear, the old crossed-an-unbroken-single-white-line-to-turn question...

This pops up now and then here in Queensland...it's a bit of a grey area. The regs say you can to enter or leave a property (as out the front of our railway station here on the Capricorn Highway), but at an intersection, or near one, it depends very much on A: the copper and how he feels on the day, and B:, whether he thinks you will be willing to take a day off work and bother going to court and spending money to fight it.
If anyone knows Bundaberg at all, at the big intersection near the Macdonalds on Takalvan street near Sugarland, at the crossing where Johanna Bvd comes out onto the main street, there is a single white line. This is to allow people coming towards the main road along Johanna Blvd to turn into the complex where The Good Guys and Spotlight at located. I personally know of at least two guys who got booked for turning across that line in years past, which is very close to the traffic light controlled main intersection, by a somewhat zealous motorcycle policeman who shall remain nameless. Now, there is no option but to turn across that line if you wish to enter that shopping center...and it is legal...but this guy pulled them over and tried it on. One paid up, and the other fought it, but it was dragged out for ages and eventually dropped...the cop changed his story from crossing a white line to "crossing the lane too close to oncoming traffic", ie: himself on his police bike.

Read up on your state regs and see what they say, and hope for the best...

Rodp · 09-04-2012, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtfpv

Hi I got booked tonight off the highway patrol for crossing an unbroken white line at an intersection to go into a right hand turn lane . I entered the lane a bit late where the line was unbroken . Pleaded with the officer as I was the only car on the road at the time to let me off with a warning as I wasn't speeding and did not impede any traffic . He declined and said its his job to book me for braking the law . I wasn't impressed . It's the 1st time in 18 years I've been booked . Anyhow . He did not give me any paper work , he just handed my licence back and said I'd receive the infringement in the mail and lose 3 points . I thought they had to hand you the written infringement on the spot . Is this not the case ?

Sounds like the same thing that happened to me at Foreshore Rd around Wednesday last week at 1am in the morning. No other cars on the road.

Checked my letterbox yesterday afternoon and there was the infringement notice.

csv8 · 09-04-2012, 08:50 AM

I regularly turn, right, into my SHELL servo over unbroken white lines. Its legal in Qld, as 2011G6E said....
From DOT...Continuous centre lines

You can cross a single continuous centre line to enter or leave a road, including entering or leaving a property.

However, you can’t cross a single continuous centre line to:

overtake
do a U-turn.
http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Safety/Que...her/Lines.aspx

Jim Goose · 09-04-2012, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Oh dear, the old crossed-an-unbroken-single-white-line-to-turn question...

This pops up now and then here in Queensland...it's a bit of a grey area. The regs say you can to enter or leave a property (as out the front of our railway station here on the Capricorn Highway), but at an intersection, or near one, it depends very much on A: the copper and how he feels on the day, and B:, whether he thinks you will be willing to take a day off work and bother going to court and spending money to fight it.
If anyone knows Bundaberg at all, at the big intersection near the Macdonalds on Takalvan street near Sugarland, at the crossing where Johanna Bvd comes out onto the main street, there is a single white line. This is to allow people coming towards the main road along Johanna Blvd to turn into the complex where The Good Guys and Spotlight at located. I personally know of at least two guys who got booked for turning across that line in years past, which is very close to the traffic light controlled main intersection, by a somewhat zealous motorcycle policeman who shall remain nameless. Now, there is no option but to turn across that line if you wish to enter that shopping center...and it is legal...but this guy pulled them over and tried it on. One paid up, and the other fought it, but it was dragged out for ages and eventually dropped...the cop changed his story from crossing a white line to "crossing the lane too close to oncoming traffic", ie: himself on his police bike.

Read up on your state regs and see what they say, and hope for the best...

Yes it is legal to cross a solid white line to enter and exit a property, this also includes a painted white stripey "traffic island".

However the OP changed lanes.... crossing a solid white line, its the same as overtaking someone on a solid white line. Very different to entering or exiting a property.

Sadly a lot of people do this sort of thing at the very last minute and cross 3 or 4lanes to exit because they arent thinking ahead of where they need to go. Just because "no one" was there... or "it was late at night" doesnt mean you can get away with it.... its the same excuse i hear on here about people who are caught speeding at night.... "there isnt anyone there" so it must be ok.... sorry pay the fine and move on.

FPV091 · 09-04-2012, 09:01 AM

Don't pay it, write to the SDRO since you've had no fines in the last ten years, you're granted a waiver of the fine and points as long as it hasn't been less than ten years, in a school zone or a speeding offence above 30km/h, which your offence was neither.

Although, it comes down to how your letter is worded, you still have to show contrition for your "wrongdoing", etc.

REVENUE RAISING IN ITS FINEST FORM

Rodp · 09-04-2012, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPV091

Don't pay it, write to the SDRO since you've had no fines in the last ten years, you're granted a waiver of the fine and points as long as it hasn't been less than ten years, in a school zone or a speeding offence above 30km/h, which your offence was neither.

I've just checked the SDRO and the offence as above isn't listed as one you can review (as I also plan to seek leniency based on clean driving record - as well as the signs that indicate not to turn into Foreshore Rd are poorly placed and not lit).

Kryton · 09-04-2012, 09:11 AM

Its Easter, what did you expect to happen?

Patto90 · 09-04-2012, 09:14 AM

If you've had a spotless record for 18 years you would be best trying for a review of the penalty notice.

It's only a minor infringement so you should be right. Its always worth a try writing to the SDRO, I got out of a $200 fine for not having a train ticket late one night by writing to them and stating my case that I always buy tickets as I'm a semi regular train user and have no previous offences for not having a ticket but on this particular night I was intoxicated and extremely fatigued and simply forgot, it worked

so they mustn't all be bad guys as they easily could've trashed that excuse.

Either way its worth a try, doesn't have to be a novel, just a well worded, quick letter on the form from their site could save you some grief.

StarDeala · 09-04-2012, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Yes it is legal to cross a solid white line to enter and exit a property, this also includes a painted white stripey "traffic island".

However the OP changed lanes.... crossing a solid white line, its the same as overtaking someone on a solid white line. Very different to entering or exiting a property.

Sadly a lot of people do this sort of thing at the very last minute and cross 3 or 4lanes to exit because they arent thinking ahead of where they need to go. Just because "no one" was there... or "it was late at night" doesnt mean you can get away with it.... its the same excuse i hear on here about people who are caught speeding at night.... "there isnt anyone there" so it must be ok.... sorry pay the fine and move on.

Crossing 3-4 lanes, yes, get over it and pay the fine, but from one lane to the next IS contestable. How far back from the intersection was ANY roadsign stating which exit it was. If a sign is clearly before (more than 100 m at 60kph) the solid white line then there is no argument, but if it is after the start of the solid white line, then given 18 years of non-infringement the OP has a right to contest as the relevant motoring body hasnt provided adequate signage. WE as a motorist are becoming to complacent with the traffic bodies not putting up signs far enough in advance to 'warn and advise' us of changing traffic circumstances, including off-ramps and road separations. While most roads are fine, not all are, which can create this.
What if the OP was unfamiliar with the area, knew he needed to turn left/right eventually, took the exit, but once he/she got closer to the exit realised it wasnt the one wanted, and merged back onto the main roadway. Same scenario, crossing a solid white line. Should they take the exit, and because of further ensueing white lines (and possibly no exits - divided roads) be forced to drive k's in the wrong direction. I think not. Should he/she drive completely unsafe with a street directory in their lap/over the steering wheel more focused on that than the actual road. NO!

gcg2503 · 09-04-2012, 09:26 AM

Pm me your email address and I will send you a pro forma letter

nstg8a · 09-04-2012, 09:31 AM

Yeah I have to do this every day leaving work, the onramp onto Ipswich rd has a very long unbroken white line, presumedly to let trucks get up to speed before they have to merge, however that means it takes you past the other unbroken white line to split Ipswich rd from granard rd.
When I'm not in a hurry I just stay in the left lane and take the slow way.
So when I'm having to get to my other job I jump the white lines if the traffic is clear. But I do realise I run the risk of being booked if a copper sees me.

Jim Goose · 09-04-2012, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StarDeala

Crossing 3-4 lanes, yes, get over it and pay the fine, but from one lane to the next IS contestable. How far back from the intersection was ANY roadsign stating which exit it was. If a sign is clearly before (more than 100 m at 60kph) the solid white line then there is no argument, but if it is after the start of the solid white line, then given 18 years of non-infringement the OP has a right to contest as the relevant motoring body hasnt provided adequate signage. WE as a motorist are becoming to complacent with the traffic bodies not putting up signs far enough in advance to 'warn and advise' us of changing traffic circumstances, including off-ramps and road separations. While most roads are fine, not all are, which can create this.

Er.. ok.. fair enough, but how many motorists out there use the excuse "I didnt see the sign" officer? PLENTY.... How many speed through road works areas at 100kmh and then jam on the brakes when a traffic controller turn the sign to stop? PLENTY.... Or what about entering a school zone? "im sorry officer i didnt see the sign, I didnt know this school was here" (despite the fact the school was there for 20yrs).... Or what about people not stopping at a level crossing and running into trains? Im sorry I didnt see the sign? the flashing lights... or that boom gate i drove around?

Quote:

Originally Posted by StarDeala

What if the OP was unfamiliar with the area, knew he needed to turn left/right eventually, took the exit, but once he/she got closer to the exit realised it wasnt the one wanted, and merged back onto the main roadway. Same scenario, crossing a solid white line. Should they take the exit, and because of further ensueing white lines (and possibly no exits - divided roads) be forced to drive k's in the wrong direction. I think not. Should he/she drive completely unsafe with a street directory in their lap/over the steering wheel more focused on that than the actual road. NO!

Not knowing where your going isnt an excuse to break the road rules....
pull over to the side of the road, read a map or program your GPS before you go. Its not difficult! If you enter the wrong exit are you saying its ok to jam the brakes on? and then suddenly go back into the flow of traffic?
If you get it wrong too bad, keep driving and keep the traffic flowing instead of causing an accident because you suddenly stop and change direction as MOST people do.... too many times people have no clue as to where they are going or what they are doing, sadly most of us arent mind readers!

Kevaclone · 09-04-2012, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Er.. ok.. fair enough,

Not knowing where your going isnt an excuse to break the road rules....
pull over to the side of the road, read a map or program your GPS before you go. Its not difficult! If you enter the wrong exit are you saying its ok to jam the brakes on? and then suddenly go back into the flow of traffic?
If you get it wrong too bad, keep driving and keep the traffic flowing instead of causing an accident because you suddenly stop and change direction as MOST people do.... too many times people have no clue as to where they are going or what they are doing, sadly most of us arent mind readers!

which is how you end up with the real dumb ones reversing or even making "U" tuns and driving against the traffic to take an exit they missed, because they "don't want to drive 4 klms to the next exit and come back"

I have witnessed the result of some old fool towing a caravan do a "U" turn on a divided highway(Bruce hwy) because he missed the exit(Bribie Island), the van exploded into a million pieces when the truck went though it at 100kph

it's all about planning your route, even for a 20 minute drive

Nikked · 09-04-2012, 10:46 AM

Bloke asks about contesting fine about crossing an unbroken line...

...another bloke tells story about exploding caravan.

davidg2152 · 09-04-2012, 10:51 AM

Mate the Police do not have to issue the TIN on the spot.

I would write to SDRO IF you get a TIn in the post and highlight your driving record.

If they will not review, elect to have the matter heard at court. Don't be worried, just turn up, say sorry and highlight your record. You will get off no dramas but still lose the points unfortunately.

This is not a double demerit offence so you will not lose extra points.

There is always the hope that old mate got busy shortly after and doesn't end up sending the TIN out anyway! He has to put pen to paper for it to happen.

Traffic matter are strict liability offences, thus no mens rea (mental component basically) is taken into consideration.

There are exemptions to crossing unbroken lines, obstruction, direction, turning into driveway etc....

Kevaclone · 09-04-2012, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikked

Bloke asks about contesting fine about crossing an unbroken line...

...another bloke tells story about exploding caravan.

all relevent

gtfpv · 09-04-2012, 01:25 PM

hi guys thanks for the info . use your maps app , it was at the same place as RODP . foreshore drive . i actually left a road and entered another road crossing 4 lanes to do that .
i was filling up at a bp service station on general homes drive , when exiting the exit road as there was no traffic i slowly drove across the lanes and crossed a white lane to turn right onto foreshore road . google maps shows a clear picture of the intersection . i think it is questionable wether its a safety offence or not , and wish the officer used discretion as to the time and traffic conditions , it wasnt peak hour and i didnt heavy foot it .the officer knows i was the only vehicle on that road at the time , he did say he understodd my feelings and stated its his job to book me for it but never the less . i haven t seen any road signs there before . so they mustnt be easily noticable .
my main question here was SINCE ,i havent had an infringement for some time , do they issue the paperwork on the spot , or send it through the mail . it appears they can do both .
spare the stories of doom please . if id of walked across the rode there on foot , or road a pushbike on the road it wouldnt be an offence , in this instance i was more likely to get hit by a satelite than cause an incident . and purely got pinned ona technicality . a far cry from speeding or drink driving .
and a little dissapointed the fine for speeding is 3x less and only 2 points x2=4 points , than driving over an unboken line to enter a road when there are no other cars on the road .
i guess it's up to the officers discretion now . and will have to wait and see . as far as contesting it , i dont think i'll waste my time , the officers discretion in this case will have to do .

FTe342 · 09-04-2012, 01:44 PM

Wait till you get the Infringement Notice in the mail. It has 4 options on the back on how to deal with it, one being how you can appeal for leniency.

Visit www.sdro.nsw.gov.au

Grega · 09-04-2012, 03:44 PM

appeal for leniency - i've not had anything in 21 years (touch wood) either. i do understand though in these times of so many people on the road that the police do get fed up though with peoples driving.

Rodp · 09-04-2012, 04:00 PM

GTFPV, same spot. Coming out of the servo. The officer first asked if I knew why I was pulled over, when I did cross over to the right hand turn to get into Foreshore Rd, I did note I crossed the solid white line.. however, because of the light and the camber of the road, you only notice it when you're just about on top of it.

Looking at Google maps, there are signs that prohibit the right turn into Foreshore Rd - but they're about 10 meters from the exit. If you're merging into 70kph traffic, the last thing you're doing is reading the sign. I was looking over my right shoulder for traffic. They're inappropriately placed, small and non-reflective.

I saw the cop sitting across the road from the exit, obviously waiting for people to do what I did. Had I seen the sign, I would have just kept going and circled around via Botany Rd which would have added perhaps 2 minutes to my trip at 1am.

When you come out of Foreshore Rd into Southern Cross Drive, there's a road divider that stops you from entering the fly over. If they don't want people to turn right after exiting the servo, why would they not install a divider there too.

Lesson learned though, won't try and turn right after the servo (not that I'll probably ever need to again)

gtfpv · 09-04-2012, 04:33 PM

PROBABLY THE SAME COP , same question asked , and exact same scenario . probably sitting back making heaps of revenue for the state , and loving it . this is a road setup to catch people out not necessarily commiting a crime , i agree about the sign , and why couldnt they put anj island instead of a line there . this is the kind of thing that stinks , and i dont have much respect for the law enforcers , enforcing this one its a real shame we have police out there doing this kind of thing without discression due to circumstances . its one thing pulling out infront of traffic and dangerously doing it , its another when there is no traffic , and its not on par with running a stop sign or red light , this is more like a how can we design a road to create revenue setup . if i was a police officer , i wouldnt book everyone that done this , due to circumstances . but i guess some cops think everyone is a mug . i guess this would be a grwat job for someone like JIM GOOSE .

Kryton · 09-04-2012, 04:39 PM

Mate, you did it - cop it on the chin.
Lack of signs and physical barriers is B.S.
You as a motorist understand (or are meant to if you have any sort of intelligence) what line markings mean what and are meant to follow them.
The cop DID show discretion with his call - if he had of thought it not worthy, you wouldnt have been pinged for it.
Quit crying about it and learn from your mistake.
Sick of all these "wah wah wah" threads when people cant take responsiblity for their own actions.
And, yes, i have copped fines too - but i chose to man up and not crawl on here to sook about it like a baby.
Honestly dont know why these sort of threads are allowed to exist.

gtfpv · 09-04-2012, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davway

Mate, you did it - cop it on the chin.
Lack of signs and physical barriers is B.S.
You as a motorist understand (or are meant to if you have any sort of intelligence) what line markings mean what and are meant to follow them.
The cop DID show discretion with his call - if he had of thought it not worthy, you wouldnt have been pinged for it.
Quit crying about it and learn from your mistake.
Sick of all these "wah wah wah" threads when people cant take responsiblity for their own actions.
And, yes, i have copped fines too - but i chose to man up and not crawl on here to sook about it like a baby.
Honestly dont know why these sort of threads are allowed to exist.

SOME PEOPLE TAKE RULES TOO FAR DAVWAY , next time your shaving , make sure you dont go against the grain , something bad might happen , and make sure you on post those chain letters eh , the world would be a much nicer place if everyone could spell properly .
i cop enough BS on the chin thanks mate , i'll just add this one to the list , just like you and many others do .

Kryton · 09-04-2012, 04:46 PM

And you wonder why you got a ticket...............

Matty4 · 09-04-2012, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davway

And you wonder why you got a ticket...............

brydie76 · 09-04-2012, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davway

Mate, you did it - cop it on the chin.
Lack of signs and physical barriers is B.S.
You as a motorist understand (or are meant to if you have any sort of intelligence) what line markings mean what and are meant to follow them.
The cop DID show discretion with his call - if he had of thought it not worthy, you wouldnt have been pinged for it.
Quit crying about it and learn from your mistake.
Sick of all these "wah wah wah" threads when people cant take responsiblity for their own actions.
And, yes, i have copped fines too - but i chose to man up and not crawl on here to sook about it like a baby.
Honestly dont know why these sort of threads are allowed to exist.

And I bet if you got pinged you would appeal for leniency if you could...

Have to agree with the OP, cops can be very skew-iff with that they are and aren't lenient with. I was lucky to get off with a verbal caution for crossing a similar line from a cop who agreed with me that it was impossible to see the line was unbroken until you crossed it, however a friend of mine got pinged and fined for it by another cop with no room for tolerance.

What I hate is how cops pick things like this to police like crazy because they are easy to pick up and fine, but don't pick up on others. Friend of mine was texting at a red light, and a cop car pulled up beside him. Wound down the window and told him to stop, but they weren't going to fine him because they didn't want to have to pull him over from the other lane. Still do NOT get that one. Guy still does it too, because he knows the police aren't as serious about enforcing it...